Which Arab Country Has Strongest Military?

[isthvan]

Also Jordan is ranking pretty high. While they don’t have so big armed forces compared to other Arab armed forces they probably have best trained and disciplined troops in Arab world.

 

[contedicavour]

Also Jordan is ranking pretty high. While they don’t have so big armed forces compared to other Arab armed forces they probably have best trained and disciplined troops in Arab world.

True, so many of their officers are British-trained and they have (or had ?) Chieftains MBTs... one could almost mistaken them for '80s UK regiments
What air force assets do they have by the way ?

cheers

 

[isthvan]

True, so many of their officers are British-trained and they have (or had ?) Chieftains MBTs... one could almost mistaken them for '80s UK regiments
What air force assets do they have by the way ?

cheers

I believe that Jordan has also received Challenger I MBT from Britain and they are modernizing M60 and Chieftain MBTs…
As for air force IIRC they are replacing F-5 Tiger II whit ex. USAF F-16s…

 

[contedicavour]

I believe that Jordan has also received Challenger I MBT from Britain and they are modernizing M60 and Chieftain MBTs…
As for air force IIRC they are replacing F-5 Tiger II whit ex. USAF F-16s…

Not bad at all then ! Since you bring it up, I'm curious to know whether the F16s in service in the Egyptian and Jordanian air forces have Amraams. I presume not, AFAIK only semi-active Sparrows, but I'd like confirmation.

cheers

 

[isthvan]

Not bad at all then ! Since you bring it up, I'm curious to know whether the F16s in service in the Egyptian and Jordanian air forces have Amraams. I presume not, AFAIK only semi-active Sparrows, but I'd like confirmation.

cheers

Sorry but I don’t know... IIRC they couldn’t get Amraams during 1990s because of Israelis but I haven’t heard anything about that subject lately... Maybe some other forum member knows?

 

[Stimpy75]

Not bad at all then ! Since you bring it up, I'm curious to know whether the F16s in service in the Egyptian and Jordanian air forces have Amraams. I presume not, AFAIK only semi-active Sparrows, but I'd like confirmation.

cheers

In a turkish defence magazine it´s written that the hole F-16 fleet of the Jordanian Air Force are getting modernized,Falcon Up and Falcon Star modification are beeing done to the fighters,MLU is also beeing applied.The work is beeing done by TAI for the first fighters,while the rest of the fleet will be modernized in Jordan with assistance of TAI. I think that AMRAAM capability is available after modenization, but if they will be purchased for the Falcon´s, I don´t know?

 

[contedicavour]

In a turkish defence magazine it´s written that the hole F-16 fleet of the Jordanian Air Force are getting modernized,Falcon Up and Falcon Star modification are beeing done to the fighters,MLU is also beeing applied.The work is beeing done by TAI for the first fighters,while the rest of the fleet will be modernized in Jordan with assistance of TAI. I think that AMRAAM capability is available after modenization, but if they will be purchased for the Falcon´s, I don´t know?

Thanks, that's the info I was looking for. The Israeli F16s with Derby and Pythons now have a serious competitor on their eastern border then... Since the US allowed the UAE to acquire Amraams, I guess sales to other supportive governments in the Middle East should be feasible, and Jordan certainly qualifies as "supportive" !

cheers

 

[Waylander]

But selling AMRAAMS to the UAE is quite another quality than selling them to a direct neighbour of Israel.
The problem I see in most of the US supplied countries next to Israel is that they are just one free election away from a fundamentalistic government.
I would think that the Israeli lobbyists in washington would run amok against this.

 

[Stimpy75]

In case of jordan i think that´s another matter,because jordan is one of the most stable countries in this region,regarding all the other countries....
the king is a stable figure,who is beloved by his citizens.You should also consider that there has been no violant actions between jordan and israel in many years.Does egypt have AMRAAM missiles?when yes,so why shouldn´t jordan get some?

 

[contedicavour]

In case of jordan i think that´s another matter,because jordan is one of the most stable countries in this region,regarding all the other countries....
the king is a stable figure,who is beloved by his citizens.You should also consider that there has been no violant actions between jordan and israel in many years.Does egypt have AMRAAM missiles?when yes,so why shouldn´t jordan get some?

You're right, that's THE question : does Egypt have Amraams on its F16s ? Because if it doesn't it seriously questions the usefulness of its F16s... unless they use French MICA missiles (I wonder if they are compatible). Otherwise it would make more sense to buy some MIG29SMT or SU30MKK with AA-12... or wait until the European Meteor is operational.

cheers

 

[Viktor]

If you want a clear, straight-forward answer, yes, Egypt is miles ahead of all other Arab countries. That's what has been stated by most people on this thread.
However I would suggest enlarging the question to "middle East" vs purely Arab. I would however class Turkey as European and NATO, so leave it aside, otherwise it clearly is n°1 in the area. In this case, the ranking becomes :
1/Israel 2/Egypt 3/Iran

cheers

I dont agree!
I would place Israel first by far, second Iran then Egypt, Why do you think Egypt has advantage over the Iran.
Every thing they have is bought from Russia, US , Iran has unlike Eygpt mutch developt defence industry.
Producing and developing missiles, antitank weapons , fighters, rocket skips, tanks, etc....

 

[atilla]

I dont agree!
I would place Israel first by far, second Iran then Egypt, Why do you think Egypt has advantage over the Iran.
Every thing they have is bought from Russia, US , Iran has unlike Eygpt mutch developt defence industry.
Producing and developing missiles, antitank weapons , fighters, rocket skips, tanks, etc....

yes but ıran doesnt have accses to free knowledge only lookıng to nuclear program doesnt make ıran regıons most developed tech ın terms of defense


also same for egypt consumıng goods from mıx sourses doesnt make them most developed ın defence ındustry

what ıs surprısıng me here ıs coperatıon between russıa and ıran because ıran has to be realy strong and has ambıtıons to control ower central asıa and also carcasus regıon also hazer sea oıl platforms natural gas platforms any way ıf ın future there ıs goıng to be clash whıth ıran ıt ıs goıng to be because of hazer sea not the gulf probly we also saw saddam who ıs usıng russıan equıpment dıd they help out? so actualy how much the ıran can use those equıpments ? agaınst ıts natural openents ( ıncludıng turkey = ) and we have to keep ın mınd that probly ırans army ıs realy ın polıtıcs thıs could be dıs adventages to seems as an arab state egypt ıs 1 then saudı arabıa but actualy we are rankıng them ın whıch bases my frıends to be able rank them we have to fınd realıstıc aponents ın my opınıon

 

[Waylander]

Why should the self developed equipment of Iran be better as the foreign equipment of Egypt?

 

[contedicavour]

Why should the self developed equipment of Iran be better as the foreign equipment of Egypt?

Exactly, that's the point... Iran's defence industries may be more developed than Egypt's, but most Iranian material is adaptation of old Chinese and Russian material or of 1970-vintage US material. Most weaponry is untested.

A parallel with the car industry may better explain my point : are Iran's obsolete locally made copies of 1950s British cars and 1980s French cars better than Mercedes and BMW imported by Egypt ?? No of course not.

This thread is about the capability of Middle Eastern armed forces, not local defence industries...

cheers

 

[atilla]

yes but to be able to rank mıdeast armed forces we also have to consıder theır defence ındustrıes yes we are all rankıng Egypt fırst as an strongest arab army but what ıf they wont be able to use western equıpment ın terms of hot clash ? so defence ındustry ıs also ımportant ıf we are goıng to rank them

 

[swerve]

A parallel with the car industry may better explain my point : are Iran's obsolete locally made copies of 1950s British cars

[pedant mode] 1960s. The Hillman Hunter was introduced in October 1966.[/pedant mode]

 

[contedicavour]

yes but to be able to rank mıdeast armed forces we also have to consıder theır defence ındustrıes yes we are all rankıng Egypt fırst as an strongest arab army but what ıf they wont be able to use western equıpment ın terms of hot clash ? so defence ındustry ıs also ımportant ıf we are goıng to rank them

I understand your point. If Egypt attacked Israel, for example, then the US would stop supplying spare parts, maintenance, ammunition, etc. Though that is most highly unlikely. It would be a bit like 1979 Iran... but Egypt is a much more open society with a higher level of democracy (though it's still a long way from a full democracy).
I would add something else to this thread : capability to resist an invasion. In this case, I agree Iran's manyfold heavily armed militias (pasdaran to start with) make it a tougher nut to crack than Egypt.

cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

Regarding Iran, Janes has this to say on their army.

Jane's World Armies profile: Iran

The Iranian army has active forces of some 345,000 personnel, although a large percentage of this total are 18-month conscripts who generally receive limited training and have marginal military effectiveness. It also has an army reserve of some 350,000 personnel, although these reserves receive negligible training and Iran lacks the equipment, supplies and leadership cadres to make effective use of such resources without months of reorganisation and training.

Despite the impressive number of personnel, Iran's armed forces are not equipped with the latest technology and their performance in another major conflict is difficult to predict. The scale of Iran's rearmament programme - launched after its effective defeat in the 1980-1988 war with Iraq when in the final phase of the conflict it lost 40 to 60 per cent of its armour and artillery - has often been exaggerated. Furthermore, much of the equipment that survived this war is becoming obsolete.

The army is organised into three army-level headquarters and 10 regular divisions, with independent groups including an airborne brigade, special forces and coastal defences. There is at least one logistics brigade. The 23rd Commando (Special Forces) Division, formed in 1993-1994, is said to have 5,000 trained personnel, all of whom are believed to be regulars, marking an unusual move to full professionalism in an elite unit.

The rest of the article

Egypt would defintely be my bet. My impression of Iranian self-suffiency in arms development is that it is marginal. Base items like assault rifles, ATGM's, rockets and mortars seems like items that have been made in sufficient numbers.

OTOH they do, reportedly, make excellent sea mines and ASM's...

 

[contedicavour]

Regarding Iran, Janes has this to say on their army.



Egypt would defintely be my bet. My impression of Iranian self-suffiency in arms development is that it is marginal. Base items like assault rifles, ATGM's, rockets and mortars seems like items that have been made in sufficient numbers.

OTOH they do, reportedly, make excellent sea mines and ASM's...

Yep. Besides, most defence industries in Iran are vulnerable to air/cruise missile attacks. It's the nuclear facilities that are extremely well protected. So having the capability to produce or maintain locally some MBTs and artillery and some helos is not enough to consider Iran's potential even remotely better than Egypt's.
Btw, does somebody know if Egyptian F16s have Amraams ? If not, do they have the good old RIM7Sparrow or do they have something better, MICA or similar ?

cheers

 

[Aussie Digger]

Yep. Besides, most defence industries in Iran are vulnerable to air/cruise missile attacks. It's the nuclear facilities that are extremely well protected. So having the capability to produce or maintain locally some MBTs and artillery and some helos is not enough to consider Iran's potential even remotely better than Egypt's.
Btw, does somebody know if Egyptian F16s have Amraams ? If not, do they have the good old RIM7Sparrow or do they have something better, MICA or similar ?

cheers

Not sure about AMRAAM's, but I'm certain I've read that they have AIM-7M Sparrow's and also MICA A2A missiles for their Mirage 2000 aircraft. I doubt if the MICA's have been integrated onto their F-16's, but you never know...

Can't provide any links though...