Which Arab Country Has Strongest Military?

[Waylander]

Yeah, but for some reason most people on the world do not have a picture of a fascist in front of them if they hear somebody talking about italians.

You know what one of the first thoughts it is if you hear the word german.

 

[contedicavour]

Yeah, but for some reason most people on the world do not have a picture of a fascist in front of them if they hear somebody talking about italians.

You know what one of the first thoughts it is if you hear the word german.

Well that's a shame. We've all seen how much good German troops have done in the Balkans recently (Bosnia, Kosovo, FYROM, etc).
Besides, your government has helped Israel more than enough ... for example by paying for 1/3 of the costs of building the U214s for their Navy . Fine, it kept your shipyards busy, still ...

cheers

 

[Waylander]

Thanks for that, it's exactly my opinion but you know that the world does not work like this.

 

[atilla]

Un force whıch wıll be replaced ın lebanon wıll not be able to stop hammas missiles if there is any left??. And ı hope turkey wont send soldıer to the un force ın lebanon. When ıt comes to saudıe army every one can agree army ıs a tradıtıon whıch have to contunue ın ages even saudıes has best equıpment probly they forget the tradıtıon .. ın the regıon lıke many of u mentıoned Egypt has good force . What ıf germany ıtaly and other EU countrıes send some troops to Un force ın lebanon and at the same tıme hammas dırect attacs to that force ? then who ıs goıng to blamed ? after out come? what ıf ıf ısrael hunts few cells ın lebanon ın UN area ? or ın lebanon agaın? who ıs goıng to trust UN ? or even the UN force hammas dırect attacs to ısrael cıtes dıd ısrael wıll ever lısten UN ? agaın many of u dıdnt realıze but most of the ınternatıonal ınstıtuıons are losıng popularıty ın most of the world expecıally ın mıd east and ıf UN lose ıts popularıty agaın ın thıs area could thıs lead north afrıcan and many mıd east also central asıan republıcs to maıntaın new allienses????? england, austraıla, canada ,poland ,US and maybe ıtaly wıll send troops ????.still there is no peace in Iraq , afganıstan, and many other countrıes ın mıd east.And under these condıtıons Iran wıll get stronger probably and thıs could affect IRAQ ın realy negatıve terms maybe separatıon of regıons and thıs could make chaın of events ın the regıon ıncludes every one ın a bıg battle ıncludıng turkey

 

[contedicavour]

Un force whıch wıll be replaced ın lebanon wıll not be able to stop hammas missiles if there is any left??. And ı hope turkey wont send soldıer to the un force ın lebanon. When ıt comes to saudıe army every one can agree army ıs a tradıtıon whıch have to contunue ın ages even saudıes has best equıpment probly they forget the tradıtıon .. ın the regıon lıke many of u mentıoned Egypt has good force . What ıf germany ıtaly and other EU countrıes send some troops to Un force ın lebanon and at the same tıme hammas dırect attacs to that force ? then who ıs goıng to blamed ? after out come? what ıf ıf ısrael hunts few cells ın lebanon ın UN area ? or ın lebanon agaın? who ıs goıng to trust UN ? or even the UN force hammas dırect attacs to ısrael cıtes dıd ısrael wıll ever lısten UN ? agaın many of u dıdnt realıze but most of the ınternatıonal ınstıtuıons are losıng popularıty ın most of the world expecıally ın mıd east and ıf UN lose ıts popularıty agaın ın thıs area could thıs lead north afrıcan and many mıd east also central asıan republıcs to maıntaın new allienses????? england, austraıla, canada ,poland ,US and maybe ıtaly wıll send troops ????.still there is no peace in Iraq , afganıstan, and many other countrıes ın mıd east.And under these condıtıons Iran wıll get stronger probably and thıs could affect IRAQ ın realy negatıve terms maybe separatıon of regıons and thıs could make chaın of events ın the regıon ıncludes every one ın a bıg battle ıncludıng turkey

I agree with you, but what sort of a solution would you propose ?
I would be happy if my country's soldiers staid at home, besides the fact that our defence budget is short enough not to be wasted on too many simultaneous overseas missions.
However sad reality is that somebody has to help the regular Lebanese Army to put some order in the south.
By the way, Turkey apparently IS sending troops.

cheers

 

[atilla]

İn my opinion at thıs stage ıt ıs a bıg mıstake to sendforeıgn troops for UN ın lebanon.and ı thınk turkey would not send also

solutıon come whıth thıs so what ıf no one send troops ??? ısrael has to contıune or has to stop and see ıts lımıts so USA and england could send along whıth australıa canada and new zeland ıf they are wıshıng to

neıther turkısh troops nor other EU troops should take place ..because thıs ıs not our war ......ıf ısrael agress egypt jordan,iran,switzerland south afrıca,canada, japan,russıa and ısrael .Maybe mantaın a kınd of polıce force responsıble ın lebanon also some parts from ısrael İf those organısatıons are terrorıst ıt should be dealed ın terms of cıvıl otorıtıes not whıth army maybe .....thıs police force could be selected from those countırıes ı have mentıoned and a court could be establıshed just for that areas sendıng soldıers could rıse tensıons among to muslım populatıon ın labanon but cıvıl polıce force could cool a bıt dırectly responsıble to UN

 

[Waylander]

Ok, there are new infos about our troop contingent.
Up to 3000 soldiers Bit not from the beginning).

- FFGs for coastal operations (I hope some F124 "Sachsen" class FFGs, because they would be able to give long range SAM cover)

- Pioneers (Is this the right word or is combat engineers or sapper better?)

- a not yet itemised brigade (I would think the german-french brigade could be the most possible candidat. Combat ready, dedicated to france which seems to have the HQ and not bound to other tasks. Consisting of the Jägerbataillon 292 (light infantry), Panzerartilleriebataillon 295 (PzH 2000 and MLRS mix), Panzerpionierkompanie 550 (tank pioneer), one mixed support/logistic btl, one french light armored cavalry regiment and one french infantry regiment)

After the UN troop conference tomorrow we know more about which countrys will take part and with what kind of troops.

 

[contedicavour]

Ok, there are new infos about our troop contingent.
Up to 3000 soldiers Bit not from the beginning).

- FFGs for coastal operations (I hope some F124 "Sachsen" class FFGs, because they would be able to give long range SAM cover)

- Pioneers (Is this the right word or is combat engineers or sapper better?)

- a not yet itemised brigade (I would think the german-french brigade could be the most possible candidat. Combat ready, dedicated to france which seems to have the HQ and not bound to other tasks. Consisting of the Jägerbataillon 292 (light infantry), Panzerartilleriebataillon 295 (PzH 2000 and MLRS mix), Panzerpionierkompanie 550 (tank pioneer), one mixed support/logistic btl, one french light armored cavalry regiment and one french infantry regiment)

After the UN troop conference tomorrow we know more about which countrys will take part and with what kind of troops.

Thanks for the news !
On our side, Ariete armoured brigade (actually more of a division, since it has 7 regiments...) will deploy 1 regiment (Ariete MBT and Dardo AIFV) and provide brigade level HQ. Pozzuolo del Friuli cavalry brigade will provide another regiment (with Centauro 8x8 with 105mm gun and Puma 6x6 AIFV). A ready deployment force made up of parts of Lagunari and San Marco regiments will be on guard (probably aboard Garibaldi and our 3 LPDs). Artillery companies will also be deployed (M109L) with all the usual support elements. The Folgore parachutist brigade is on alert, though we don't know which of its 6 regiments would be deployed. May be it could be deployed immediately and then withdrawn as the armored/cavalry regiments arrive.
Don't know yet if the Mangusta attack helos would join. Probably not, as they may be mistaken for Israeli Apache...

cheers

 

[Waylander]

And the Ariete and especially the M109L not?

 

[contedicavour]

İn my opinion at thıs stage ıt ıs a bıg mıstake to sendforeıgn troops for UN ın lebanon.and ı thınk turkey would not send also

solutıon come whıth thıs so what ıf no one send troops ??? ısrael has to contıune or has to stop and see ıts lımıts so USA and england could send along whıth australıa canada and new zeland ıf they are wıshıng to

neıther turkısh troops nor other EU troops should take place ..because thıs ıs not our war ......ıf ısrael agress egypt jordan,iran,switzerland south afrıca,canada, japan,russıa and ısrael .Maybe mantaın a kınd of polıce force responsıble ın lebanon also some parts from ısrael İf those organısatıons are terrorıst ıt should be dealed ın terms of cıvıl otorıtıes not whıth army maybe .....thıs police force could be selected from those countırıes ı have mentıoned and a court could be establıshed just for that areas sendıng soldıers could rıse tensıons among to muslım populatıon ın labanon but cıvıl polıce force could cool a bıt dırectly responsıble to UN

Among the countries you mention, USA and UK would never be welcome since they are seen as too close to Israel politically. Most of the other countries you mention don't have fast deployment capabilities or just plainly the money to support brigade size forces for so long.
Deploying a police force might be a good idea, but those policemen would end up walking around in MBT and attack helos... or become totally irrelevant.
I'm not happy to deploy troops there, but somebody has to... or those Hezbollahs will end up provoking Israel into World War III not too far away from our backyards... and by "our" I mean both the EU's and Turkey's...

 

[contedicavour]

And the Ariete and especially the M109L not?

Oh yes, mentioned above
The Ariete have been tried and tested in Iraq, so normally they are perfectly fit. Regarding the M109L, they will most probably belong to the Ariete Division's artillery regiment. Though I hope we won't end up using the M109Ls for good, because otherwise it would be total war...

cheers

 

[merocaine]

I just hope the troops that do go wont be stuck there for the next 25 years like UNIFIL. If they do go it better be as UN troops, otherwise they could end up like the Americans and French the last time they went in.

Cant really understand why any country would be eager to send troops, we've lost quite a few over the years(19 at the last count) to shell fire and landmines, and its not like we get any thanks from the protagonists.

As far as it went with our troops, if we kept in our bunkers the Hezzbullah and the Israelies left us alone, once we started patroling or reporting israeli incuriosions, they started shooting, and then blamed each other. And after a while nobody in the international community gave a dame, we never got any satisfaction from either side.... we even got some poor bastard MIA abducted in 81 and buried in some hole on the border I guess.

The key thing was not to piss the Israelies off, cause they shell the crap out of you. But to be fair the did give you fair warning, I read an interveiw with the Irish CO back in the 80's and he said it went like this, you'd get a phone call from the Israelies and they'd say the terrorists were going to shell the base in 5 min's, then another one in 3 min's, and again in 1 min. Then they'd give you a 10 second count down before on Queue the shells would come hammering in, with the Israeli officer shouting down the phone that 'the terrorist are shelling now!'
Funny except its not.

I'd give a new UNIFIL force 2 weeks before the Israelies would decide to sound them out with a bit of light shelling, just to feel them out yeah know.

Then maybe the Hezz would feel a little left out and maybe plant a few of there tank killer landmines on a patrol route, just to see what would happen.

Yeah see in the Leb its all about a certain level of deniablity, nobody claims responseablity, but you know your not wanted.
Sure the Israelies want you now, and the Hezz arent complaining now (they need a breather), but once you start sticking your nose into everyones buisness trying to get everyone to behave thing get a bit more sticky.
The other option is to dig deep bunkers and work on your tan while you can.

UNIFIL has suffered a total of 261 deaths

this is the kind of thing your going to have to get used to.

Really I hope things cool down and reality reasserts it self, and the whole idea is dropped.

Last thing I heard was the Irish goverment was pledging 200 more troops to the multinational force, as one editoral called it "the meat in the sandwich"

my two cents

 

[atilla]

we should see thıs realıty attacıng hezz ıs not makıng ıt weaker ıt ıs makıng hezz stronger and strange part ıs ınstead of huntıng down hezz cıvılıan casulıtıes are rısıng basıcly ısrael pushıng ıts neıghborıng lebanon and palıstıne ın the hands of hezz sported goverments that ıs why ı saıd kınd of multınatıonal specıal polıce force must deal whıt hezz or any other terrorıst orgınasıtıon.Lıke ın turkey maınly agaınst PKK specıal polıce force ıs dealıng ın that area .......

 

[Gerasimos]

we should see thıs realıty attacıng hezz ıs not makıng ıt weaker ıt ıs makıng hezz stronger and strange part ıs ınstead of huntıng down hezz cıvılıan casulıtıes are rısıng basıcly ısrael pushıng ıts neıghborıng lebanon and palıstıne ın the hands of hezz sported goverments that ıs why ı saıd kınd of multınatıonal specıal polıce force must deal whıt hezz or any other terrorıst orgınasıtıon.Lıke ın turkey maınly agaınst PKK specıal polıce force ıs dealıng ın that area .......

I think that PKK is a lot more complicated situation than Hezbolah.PKK doesn't have the same military strength.How can a special police force unit deal with flying missiles.Also I believe that the inernational community is not interested in attacking Hezbolah,they just want to keep Hezbolah and Israelis away from each other.

 

[Grand Danois]

Also I believe that the inernational community is not interested in attacking Hezbolah,they just want to keep Hezbolah and Israelis away from each other.

That is also what I think. One can hope that Hezbollah would find it worthwhile focusing on the democratic politics of Lebanon, as it won't be so easy in the future to have a fight with Israel.

I would really hope that a lot of ordnance disposal personnel goes in with the multinational force. I have read that 7,000 bombs were dropped and 100,000 shells were fired by the IDF. And if perhaps 5 or 10 % of that lies unexploded around... Nasty stuff for the returning refugees.

 

[contedicavour]

I just hope the troops that do go wont be stuck there for the next 25 years like UNIFIL. If they do go it better be as UN troops, otherwise they could end up like the Americans and French the last time they went in.

Cant really understand why any country would be eager to send troops, we've lost quite a few over the years(19 at the last count) to shell fire and landmines, and its not like we get any thanks from the protagonists.

As far as it went with our troops, if we kept in our bunkers the Hezzbullah and the Israelies left us alone, once we started patroling or reporting israeli incuriosions, they started shooting, and then blamed each other. And after a while nobody in the international community gave a dame, we never got any satisfaction from either side.... we even got some poor bastard MIA abducted in 81 and buried in some hole on the border I guess.

The key thing was not to piss the Israelies off, cause they shell the crap out of you. But to be fair the did give you fair warning, I read an interveiw with the Irish CO back in the 80's and he said it went like this, you'd get a phone call from the Israelies and they'd say the terrorists were going to shell the base in 5 min's, then another one in 3 min's, and again in 1 min. Then they'd give you a 10 second count down before on Queue the shells would come hammering in, with the Israeli officer shouting down the phone that 'the terrorist are shelling now!'
Funny except its not.

I'd give a new UNIFIL force 2 weeks before the Israelies would decide to sound them out with a bit of light shelling, just to feel them out yeah know.

Then maybe the Hezz would feel a little left out and maybe plant a few of there tank killer landmines on a patrol route, just to see what would happen.

Yeah see in the Leb its all about a certain level of deniablity, nobody claims responseablity, but you know your not wanted.
Sure the Israelies want you now, and the Hezz arent complaining now (they need a breather), but once you start sticking your nose into everyones buisness trying to get everyone to behave thing get a bit more sticky.
The other option is to dig deep bunkers and work on your tan while you can.

UNIFIL has suffered a total of 261 deaths

this is the kind of thing your going to have to get used to.

Really I hope things cool down and reality reasserts it self, and the whole idea is dropped.

Last thing I heard was the Irish goverment was pledging 200 more troops to the multinational force, as one editoral called it "the meat in the sandwich"

my two cents

Interesting (and worrying) reading, thanks.
Although this time with several thousand heavily armed French, Italian, Spanish, etc troops deployed, it would be quite suicidal for the IDF to play the same game. Because next time they warn that terrorists are going to shell the UN troops in a few minutes, it will be M109L and French Caesar 155mm that will be returning the favour. Those counter-battery radars can be deadly efficient. Not to mention that the DDGs along the coastline can shoot down anything the IDF can fly around with, and that several FFGs will be around to pound 127mm shells with a good 30km range.
I'm more worried about the Hezzbollahs. They could continue to do hit-and-run missions taking out a patrol here, a tank there, shooting down a helo, etc. Against such attacks you can hardly counterattack with heavy artillery or you risk a massacre of civilians (true or false civilians, but anyway it's hard to make the difference).

cheers

 

[ahussains]

Cant really understand why any country would be eager to send troops, we've lost quite a few over the years(19 at the last count) to shell fire and landmines, and its not like we get any thanks from the protagonists.

As far as it went with our troops, if we kept in our bunkers the Hezzbullah and the Israelies left us alone, once we started patroling or reporting israeli incuriosions, they started shooting, and then blamed each other. And after a while nobody in the international community gave a dame, we never got any satisfaction from either side.... we even got some poor bastard MIA abducted in 81 and buried in some hole on the border I guess.

 

[merocaine]

Interesting (and worrying) reading, thanks.
Although this time with several thousand heavily armed French, Italian, Spanish, etc troops deployed, it would be quite suicidal for the IDF to play the same game. Because next time they warn that terrorists are going to shell the UN troops in a few minutes, it will be M109L and French Caesar 155mm that will be returning the favour. Those counter-battery radars can be deadly efficient. Not to mention that the DDGs along the coastline can shoot down anything the IDF can fly around with, and that several FFGs will be around to pound 127mm shells with a good 30km range.
I'm more worried about the Hezzbollahs. They could continue to do hit-and-run missions taking out a patrol here, a tank there, shooting down a helo, etc. Against such attacks you can hardly counterattack with heavy artillery or you risk a massacre of civilians (true or false civilians, but anyway it's hard to make the difference).

cheers

Yeah they should have a lot more back up this time around, and more flexible rules of engagement(i hope).
Your dead right the Hezz dont respond as well to counter force as a conventional military. There should definetly be a time frame on this, a year or two, and real pressure from the US to get a lasting settlement between Israel and the Lebanon. Otherwise whats the point in the exercise? We'ed just be giving both sides time to take a breather.
In this the US is key to making both sides work toward an agreement, otherwise the europeans(can i include the Turks in this ) are going to left with there arses hanging in the wind.

 

[Gerasimos]

I heard that Greece is sending troops too,among other European countries in Lebanon,but I can't imagine why that...We also have enough troops in Serbia and in Afghanistan...And I'm also scared of the ''innocent'' bombs and shells...

 

[contedicavour]

Yeah they should have a lot more back up this time around, and more flexible rules of engagement(i hope).
Your dead right the Hezz dont respond as well to counter force as a conventional military. There should definetly be a time frame on this, a year or two, and real pressure from the US to get a lasting settlement between Israel and the Lebanon. Otherwise whats the point in the exercise? We'ed just be giving both sides time to take a breather.
In this the US is key to making both sides work toward an agreement, otherwise the europeans(can i include the Turks in this ) are going to left with there arses hanging in the wind.

Fully agree. Since for once it will be Europe handling the mess in Lebanon, the US has better support us in finding lasting peace arrangements (if this means leaning heavily on Israel, so be it). Otherwise the US armed forces will have to come back us up, as if deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan weren't enough
Because of course the moment we'll start losing soldiers, all our happy politicians (especially my country's, who are screaming to send troops while they were screaming to get out of Iraq and even Afghanistan only a few months ago...) will start panicking...