Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]
- Thread starter Mukesh Patel
- Start date
Revival_786
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
Hmm... I thought there was a post on this website "J-10 in Pakistan's Cammo" which said something about it... probably misinformation
Where is that post now btw? :smokingc:
Hmm... I thought there was a post on this website "J-10 in Pakistan's Cammo" which said something about it... probably misinformation
Where is that post now btw? :smokingc:
Roger Smith
New Member
umair said:
Can you elaborate with a site/link, please! :?
greatindian
New Member
PAF by 2015
What do you think shall be the PAF strength by 2015? How many squadrons and what aircraft and missiles should PAF have? How do you think will it compare with India? Be realistic.
I am giving the present status of PAF
AIRFORCE
Strength
Personnel 45,000
Combat Aircraft 430
Fighter Ground Attack
Squadrons 1 with 18 Mirage III EP & DP
3 with 56 Mirage 5
3 with 49 Q-50 ( A-5 Fantan )
MIRAGE III E
>Role:Interceptor fighter and Reconnaissance
Produced by--- Dassault Aviation, France
Performance:
Maximum Speed Mach 2.2
Maximum Speed at Sea Level 750 kt (864 mph)
Take-off Distance 5,250 ft (1,600 m) at maximum weight
Landing Distance 2,300 ft (700 m) with dragchute
Time to 36,000 feet (11,000 m) 3 minutes
Radius of Action 648 naut miles (764 miles)
Fighters
Squadrons
4 with 100 J-6 / JJ-6 (F-6 / FT-6)
3 with 34 F-16A / B
2 with 79 J-7 (F-7P)
1 with 30 Mirage III
P-3 ORION
Type-- Land baseed maritime patrol and ASW aircraft
Version-- Many. This aircraft has continuously been updated for its role in the field of avionics, sensors and equipment as also on requirements of customers
Armament---Bombs, anti -submarine torpedoes depth charges, anti-submarine rockets depending on version. Provision exists for carrying anti-ship missiles or for minelaying sonobuyos and associated equipments for anti-submarine role
Loading--- Max expendable load 9,000 kg approx
Speed--- Patrolling speed over 200 to 400 knots depending on mission
Radius-- Upto 2,000 nm
Reconnaissance
Squandron with 12 Mirage III RP--1
Anti Submarine / Maritime
Squadron with 4 Atlantic ( Naval Air )--- 1
Search and Rescue
Helicopter squadron with 6 SA-319--1
Transport Aircraft
C-130 ( 5-B, 7-E )--- 12
L-100---1
Boeing 707—3
Falcon 20---3
F-27-200 (1 with Navy )--- 2
Beach ( 1 Travel Air, 1 Baron )---- 2
Transport Helicopters
Squadron with 12 SA-316, 4 SA-315B Lama---1
Training
CJ-6A (PT-6A )--- 12
JJ-5 (FT-5)—30
Mashshag---45
MiG-15 UTI—6
T_33A---10
T-37B/C---44
K-8----6
Air Defence
SAM batteries 6 each with 24 Crotale ,
1 with 6 CSA-1 (SA-2)------------------------- 7
Missiles
AM-39 Exocet--- ASM
AIM-9 Sparrow -- AAM
AIM-9 Sidewinder - AAM
R-530 ------- AAM
R-550 Magic---- AAM
AIM 7 SPARROW
Role : Air to Air Missile
Features
Length : 3.66m
Range : 21.6 naut miles ( 40km )
Propulsion : Solid Propellant Rocket
Speed : Mach 3 - 7 at burn out
SIDEWINDER 9L
Role : Air to Air Missile
Features
Length : 2.87m
Range : 4.32 naut miles (8 km)
Propulsion : Moving Canard Fins
Speed : Mach 2.5
R 530
Role : Air to Air Missile
Features
Length : 3.28m
Range : 18km
Propulsion : Two Stage Solid Propellant
Speed : Mach 3
R 550 MAGIC
Role : Air to Air Missile
Features
Length : 275 cm
Range : 10km
Propulsion : Sold Rocket Propellant
Speed :
Source:
http://203.200.89.163/saarc/MilitaryBalancepakistan.htm#AF
[Mod edit] Merging threads.
What do you think shall be the PAF strength by 2015? How many squadrons and what aircraft and missiles should PAF have? How do you think will it compare with India? Be realistic.
I am giving the present status of PAF
AIRFORCE
Strength
Personnel 45,000
Combat Aircraft 430
Fighter Ground Attack
Squadrons 1 with 18 Mirage III EP & DP
3 with 56 Mirage 5
3 with 49 Q-50 ( A-5 Fantan )
MIRAGE III E
>Role:Interceptor fighter and Reconnaissance
Produced by--- Dassault Aviation, France
Performance:
Maximum Speed Mach 2.2
Maximum Speed at Sea Level 750 kt (864 mph)
Take-off Distance 5,250 ft (1,600 m) at maximum weight
Landing Distance 2,300 ft (700 m) with dragchute
Time to 36,000 feet (11,000 m) 3 minutes
Radius of Action 648 naut miles (764 miles)
Fighters
Squadrons
4 with 100 J-6 / JJ-6 (F-6 / FT-6)
3 with 34 F-16A / B
2 with 79 J-7 (F-7P)
1 with 30 Mirage III
P-3 ORION
Type-- Land baseed maritime patrol and ASW aircraft
Version-- Many. This aircraft has continuously been updated for its role in the field of avionics, sensors and equipment as also on requirements of customers
Armament---Bombs, anti -submarine torpedoes depth charges, anti-submarine rockets depending on version. Provision exists for carrying anti-ship missiles or for minelaying sonobuyos and associated equipments for anti-submarine role
Loading--- Max expendable load 9,000 kg approx
Speed--- Patrolling speed over 200 to 400 knots depending on mission
Radius-- Upto 2,000 nm
Reconnaissance
Squandron with 12 Mirage III RP--1
Anti Submarine / Maritime
Squadron with 4 Atlantic ( Naval Air )--- 1
Search and Rescue
Helicopter squadron with 6 SA-319--1
Transport Aircraft
C-130 ( 5-B, 7-E )--- 12
L-100---1
Boeing 707—3
Falcon 20---3
F-27-200 (1 with Navy )--- 2
Beach ( 1 Travel Air, 1 Baron )---- 2
Transport Helicopters
Squadron with 12 SA-316, 4 SA-315B Lama---1
Training
CJ-6A (PT-6A )--- 12
JJ-5 (FT-5)—30
Mashshag---45
MiG-15 UTI—6
T_33A---10
T-37B/C---44
K-8----6
Air Defence
SAM batteries 6 each with 24 Crotale ,
1 with 6 CSA-1 (SA-2)------------------------- 7
Missiles
AM-39 Exocet--- ASM
AIM-9 Sparrow -- AAM
AIM-9 Sidewinder - AAM
R-530 ------- AAM
R-550 Magic---- AAM
AIM 7 SPARROW
Role : Air to Air Missile
Features
Length : 3.66m
Range : 21.6 naut miles ( 40km )
Propulsion : Solid Propellant Rocket
Speed : Mach 3 - 7 at burn out
SIDEWINDER 9L
Role : Air to Air Missile
Features
Length : 2.87m
Range : 4.32 naut miles (8 km)
Propulsion : Moving Canard Fins
Speed : Mach 2.5
R 530
Role : Air to Air Missile
Features
Length : 3.28m
Range : 18km
Propulsion : Two Stage Solid Propellant
Speed : Mach 3
R 550 MAGIC
Role : Air to Air Missile
Features
Length : 275 cm
Range : 10km
Propulsion : Sold Rocket Propellant
Speed :
Source:
http://203.200.89.163/saarc/MilitaryBalancepakistan.htm#AF
[Mod edit] Merging threads.
Roger Smith
New Member
Re: Who would sell pakistan NEW fighter jets???
That is true!
France is out of bound due to price factor. China is the only source of supply for PAF on figther aircrafts. It is sad though but it is true,
Oqaab said:
That is true!
France is out of bound due to price factor. China is the only source of supply for PAF on figther aircrafts. It is sad though but it is true,
tahir_kheshgi
New Member
hey what abou rafale... i think pakistan can get 40 of them for 2.8 b$.. PAF has a 2.5B$ budget... and musharaf has said that he would provide more money if needed, so why not got for rafale... it is nearly as good as a 5th generation fighter! and remember buying a plane in bulk gets the net price down!!!
what do u lot think?
what do u lot think?
The Watcher
New Member
I thought PAF had close to $4b saved up for new jets since the 90s. :? Eurofighter would be a good choice if not Rafales. :help
tahir_kheshgi said:
I believe that idea is loosely batted around pages 3, 4 and 5 of this discussion...
We also have a thread on the topic:
http://defencetalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=507
Hope that helps.
With the success of the JF-17, PAF can get a sigh of relief but since JF-17 is a medium technology fighter and is better than the Mig-21, -23, -25, -27 and the Jaguar, it would also have to face the Mig-29, Su-30 MKI, Mirage 2000 and the LCA. Since we cannot predict that the JF-17 is better than these aircraft [as it hasnt entered active service yet] PAF cannot take chances and it need at least two types of high tech. multirole fighter.The aircraft which are under observation by the PAF planners are;
1.Second hand F-16s upgraded to MLU standard. PAF officials have approached countries like Belgium and Norway but the main decision is in the hand of US which at the present condition would not allow the sale of F-16s to Pakistan.
2.Mirage 2000-5. France has offered PAF the Mirage 2000-5 but high costs and limited resources does not allow PAF to purchase a decent amount of aircraft. Their is some news here in the PAF, that our officials are negotiating with Abu-Dhabi to purchase a squadron of Mirage 2000-5 from them but nothing has been confirmed yet.
3.Grippen was also a nice choice but the 10% American share in the program made the PAF to roll back its plans to aquire this aircraft.
4.At one stage the Tornado was also in our list but after flight testing and past performances it was rejected by the PAF.
5.Su-27 was flight tested by the C-in-C of the PAF in 1999. The C-in-C of the PAF rejected the aircraft due to its low life and avionics. He said that if PAF will buy this aircraft it would have to modify it and it also would have to be re-builted in a short span of time. Thus it would be expensive and if PAF would not be able to modify it upto the required standards it would be just a useless aircraft.
6.Eurofighter and Rafale. PAF is considering these aircraft. But the final decision shall only be made when the JF-17s would enter the PAF service. It is likely that PAF might purchase the EF-2000 b/w 2005-2010.
7.J-10. J-10 is the only high tech fighter which the PAF may get after the aircraft is flight tested by PAF experts and enter active service in the PLAAF.
8.MiG-29. Rumours were heard that PAF is purchasing a squadron of Mig-29 from the Bangladesh airforce.
1.Second hand F-16s upgraded to MLU standard. PAF officials have approached countries like Belgium and Norway but the main decision is in the hand of US which at the present condition would not allow the sale of F-16s to Pakistan.
2.Mirage 2000-5. France has offered PAF the Mirage 2000-5 but high costs and limited resources does not allow PAF to purchase a decent amount of aircraft. Their is some news here in the PAF, that our officials are negotiating with Abu-Dhabi to purchase a squadron of Mirage 2000-5 from them but nothing has been confirmed yet.
3.Grippen was also a nice choice but the 10% American share in the program made the PAF to roll back its plans to aquire this aircraft.
4.At one stage the Tornado was also in our list but after flight testing and past performances it was rejected by the PAF.
5.Su-27 was flight tested by the C-in-C of the PAF in 1999. The C-in-C of the PAF rejected the aircraft due to its low life and avionics. He said that if PAF will buy this aircraft it would have to modify it and it also would have to be re-builted in a short span of time. Thus it would be expensive and if PAF would not be able to modify it upto the required standards it would be just a useless aircraft.
6.Eurofighter and Rafale. PAF is considering these aircraft. But the final decision shall only be made when the JF-17s would enter the PAF service. It is likely that PAF might purchase the EF-2000 b/w 2005-2010.
7.J-10. J-10 is the only high tech fighter which the PAF may get after the aircraft is flight tested by PAF experts and enter active service in the PLAAF.
8.MiG-29. Rumours were heard that PAF is purchasing a squadron of Mig-29 from the Bangladesh airforce.
Roger Smith
New Member
Sarmad said:
Sarmad
You have analyzed the entire fighter aircraft industry of the world. What do you think and which aircraft PAF will induct and when in its inventory?
Thanks.
Well Mr. Roger Smith,
The statistics i have provided earlier are based on the fact that the PAF has made an approach to induct new multirole fighters and these aircraft industries were approached by PAF officials.
At the present state it is not clear which aircraft PAF is going to buy but from the news here among us in the PAF is that it is confirmed that PAF is going to add;
1. 150 JF-17s in 2005,
2. J-10s b/w 2005-2010 (amount is not known)
3. More F-7PGs to plug the gaps till the JF-17 enters service, negotiations b/w PAF and China is currently going on and probably; though not confirmed; more F-7PGs would be inducted by the end of this year.
4. PAF is also negotiating with Abu-Dhabi to purchase a squadron of second hand Mirage 2000-5 and it is more likely that a breakthrough is expected by the mid of this year probably in PAF's favour.
As far as the aircraft like Rafale and Eurofighter is considered, the induction of any of these aircraft is only under consideration among the PAF planners and probably some news would come out shortly that wether PAF will go for them or not.
The statistics i have provided earlier are based on the fact that the PAF has made an approach to induct new multirole fighters and these aircraft industries were approached by PAF officials.
At the present state it is not clear which aircraft PAF is going to buy but from the news here among us in the PAF is that it is confirmed that PAF is going to add;
1. 150 JF-17s in 2005,
2. J-10s b/w 2005-2010 (amount is not known)
3. More F-7PGs to plug the gaps till the JF-17 enters service, negotiations b/w PAF and China is currently going on and probably; though not confirmed; more F-7PGs would be inducted by the end of this year.
4. PAF is also negotiating with Abu-Dhabi to purchase a squadron of second hand Mirage 2000-5 and it is more likely that a breakthrough is expected by the mid of this year probably in PAF's favour.
As far as the aircraft like Rafale and Eurofighter is considered, the induction of any of these aircraft is only under consideration among the PAF planners and probably some news would come out shortly that wether PAF will go for them or not.
Sarmad said:
The issue for the EF2000 is whether they will be released - that is still debatable. (as is the issue for any other western aircraft apart from the French)
The issue of the Rafale is its cost - there are more efficient ways to get force reciprocity apart from looking at a platform replacement. Integrated defence is the name of the game - not single unit unco-ordinated killing capability.
AFAIK The Mirage issue with Dubai is far from being a given - that may also be influenced by some French decisions
Pakistan's Acquisition of New Aircraft...
Ok... guyz...this is the first time I'm writing for these forumz so let me tell u a little abt myself. My real name is Saad and I'm a Pakistani, currently studying in Canada. Have a passion abt military fighter aircrafts but I also keep pretty much updated myself on latest military news and stuff like that. I mean its just a passion kinda thing.
So now I wana know what the PAF is doing abt its fleet of aircrafts... I read news in mid-2003 that the USA was going to allow Belgium to sell its F-16s to Pakistan because USA doesnt want Pakistan to buy FC-1s so as to undermine Chinese and Pakistani co-operation and technology but there hasn't been any more news on this (or probably I've missed it) apart from the first three or four articles that appeared in the media over this issue. Can anyone update me on this? And also, how many FC-1s is PAF planning to buy? (I read 200 somewhere) And are there any other aircraft that the PAF is looking to get apart from these two? Like the Mirage-2000s, Raphael, Euro, etc? I read that they were interested in Raphael. Well I hope the PAF take steps soon because Western countries, specially the USA is trying its best to stop advanced military stuff to be given to Pakistan obviously due to America's greater interest in Non-Muslim India n Israel. :mad So I'd be glad to get some info on this topic and like to see some debate as well. Thnx guyz! chao :smokingc:
Admin Edit: You will need to tone down your rhetoric, a little, we do try and keep things civilised in here - it's not a racial or nationality bashing opportunity in here.
Ok... guyz...this is the first time I'm writing for these forumz so let me tell u a little abt myself. My real name is Saad and I'm a Pakistani, currently studying in Canada. Have a passion abt military fighter aircrafts but I also keep pretty much updated myself on latest military news and stuff like that. I mean its just a passion kinda thing.
So now I wana know what the PAF is doing abt its fleet of aircrafts... I read news in mid-2003 that the USA was going to allow Belgium to sell its F-16s to Pakistan because USA doesnt want Pakistan to buy FC-1s so as to undermine Chinese and Pakistani co-operation and technology but there hasn't been any more news on this (or probably I've missed it) apart from the first three or four articles that appeared in the media over this issue. Can anyone update me on this? And also, how many FC-1s is PAF planning to buy? (I read 200 somewhere) And are there any other aircraft that the PAF is looking to get apart from these two? Like the Mirage-2000s, Raphael, Euro, etc? I read that they were interested in Raphael. Well I hope the PAF take steps soon because Western countries, specially the USA is trying its best to stop advanced military stuff to be given to Pakistan obviously due to America's greater interest in Non-Muslim India n Israel. :mad So I'd be glad to get some info on this topic and like to see some debate as well. Thnx guyz! chao :smokingc:
Admin Edit: You will need to tone down your rhetoric, a little, we do try and keep things civilised in here - it's not a racial or nationality bashing opportunity in here.