Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]
- Thread starter Mukesh Patel
- Start date
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
Well, unless you want to try and engage the French in a bidding war, I would go for the Typhoon. Proven platform and multiple parts sources.
The Rafale technically may be slightly better, but then you have to consider the fact that France is establishing deepers ties with countries that could obstruct Pakistans ability to source replacements etc...
At least with the Typhoon, you know that there are at least 5 different countries in the component loop - so chances are that you can get spares from various sources who may be sympathetic.
Personally I think the Rafale is too expensive for what it is. It's an orphaned platform. The EF2000 is not - and it has a longer warfighting pedigree
Well, unless you want to try and engage the French in a bidding war, I would go for the Typhoon. Proven platform and multiple parts sources.
The Rafale technically may be slightly better, but then you have to consider the fact that France is establishing deepers ties with countries that could obstruct Pakistans ability to source replacements etc...
At least with the Typhoon, you know that there are at least 5 different countries in the component loop - so chances are that you can get spares from various sources who may be sympathetic.
Personally I think the Rafale is too expensive for what it is. It's an orphaned platform. The EF2000 is not - and it has a longer warfighting pedigree
i think the info of acquiring used mirages from a middle east state link to the interview ACM Kaleem Sadat gave to JDW in october last year.
i dont have the url to this interview , but i think most of u read it somewhere or the other.
i recall he said in the interview something like " the deal is difficult but we will still pursue it ".
i dont have the url to this interview , but i think most of u read it somewhere or the other.
i recall he said in the interview something like " the deal is difficult but we will still pursue it ".
Roger Smith
New Member
SarmadSarmad said:
Thank you for your forecast up-date on PAF future aircrafts. I may add my views as follows;
1. PAF intent to have 150 of JF-17, but will not have a squadron of 16-20 aircrafts before 2006 or 2007.
2. J-10, China will fullfill its requirement prior able to export to any country before 2010.
3. PAF will continue to purchase F-7 variation to bridge the gap till arrival of JF-17.
4. Abu Dhabi will not sell its Mirage 2000-5 to Pakistan, but to India due to pressure from Franch and India.
In regard to Rafale or any other aircrafts of USA or European origin, Pakistan will not be able to buy it due to restrain on funds factor. If you will notice from the past years PAF could only afford reconditioned/second hand French Mirage or Chinese F-7 aircrafts.
I suggest U to search on these issues a bit, and then discuss. But dont post crap.
First and foremost, France isnt pressurizing anybody to sell weapons to India and not to Pakistan. France wants to sell more and more weapons and this is the reason why they are staying neutral and taking the advantage of arms race. So stop dreaming.
Secondly, India is purchasing 126 mirages from France and another 12 from Qatar. UAE selling its mirages to India makes no sence. As Ive said before, UAE will note phase out its mirages so soon.
And if U think France will not sell Mirage 2000-5s to Pakistan, then U are wrong. I can give U the link of Pakistan's official source (Jang) which says that France has agreed to sell Mirage 2000-5s to Pakistan. Another artical said that the price of the Mirages for Pakistan will be 50 million per unit. I dont have the link of that artical now, but I can show U that France has agreed to sell mirages to Pakistan. Do U want link ?
PAF has been saving money since one decade. This is the reason why PAF opted for second hand mirages, cheep F-7s and JF-17. Although France has agreed to sell mirage 2000-5 but I dont think PAF is going for that aircraft. Coz at the same time, Rafale and Eurofigher are also available fore sale. One or two articals hinted that PAF is going for Eurofighter but we can say anything for now.
So there is no money problem now. If we can afford Mirage 2000-5 (50 million) then we can definatly afford Rafales aswell.
PAF will be getting 12 JF-17s in 2005 for training purpose. These 12 JF-17s were scheduled to come in 2004 but the date is not extended to 2005. The SD-10 is being tested and it is almost complete. The production of JF-17 will start in June 2006 and I m sure PAF will be having 30+ JF-17s in 2007.Roger Smith said:
We dont want J-10s. French Rafale is a better option. And if we didnt get Rafales, then 2010 is not too far. From 2010 to 2014 we can buy 45+ J-10s and at the same time India will be having 140 Su-30MKIs. Not a big difference.
According to ACM, Pakistan will be upgrading its fighter planes in near future and will be installing BVR capability. So F-7 might be carring BVR missiles but remember, JF-17 is not too far.
It is shameful that U dont know anything about Ur great IAF. What are U doing here. Go and search for info on IAF first and then debate on PAF issues.
First and foremost, France isnt pressurizing anybody to sell weapons to India and not to Pakistan. France wants to sell more and more weapons and this is the reason why they are staying neutral and taking the advantage of arms race. So stop dreaming.
Secondly, India is purchasing 126 mirages from France and another 12 from Qatar. UAE selling its mirages to India makes no sence. As Ive said before, UAE will note phase out its mirages so soon.
And if U think France will not sell Mirage 2000-5s to Pakistan, then U are wrong. I can give U the link of Pakistan's official source (Jang) which says that France has agreed to sell Mirage 2000-5s to Pakistan. Another artical said that the price of the Mirages for Pakistan will be 50 million per unit. I dont have the link of that artical now, but I can show U that France has agreed to sell mirages to Pakistan. Do U want link ?
Another patriotic statement ..... :roll
PAF has been saving money since one decade. This is the reason why PAF opted for second hand mirages, cheep F-7s and JF-17. Although France has agreed to sell mirage 2000-5 but I dont think PAF is going for that aircraft. Coz at the same time, Rafale and Eurofigher are also available fore sale. One or two articals hinted that PAF is going for Eurofighter but we can say anything for now.
So there is no money problem now. If we can afford Mirage 2000-5 (50 million) then we can definatly afford Rafales aswell.
No, the political situation is not in our favour. Sweden offered Gripens but US didnt allowed them to sell these to Pakistan. Chinese J-10 will be available for sale after the 300th J-10 enter PLAAFs service. Pakistan had been trying to get MiG-29s and Su-30s from Russia but because of political situation, we cant get them.saraab said:
The options left are Eurofighter and Rafale. And they are expensive. Also the negotiations take a lot of time. I m sure that PAF will be having something western till 2010. :smokingc:
the sweedish gripens were expolited some time back befroe the "war" started and yes it US policy which wouldnt lets us have them.
the Migs and Sukhoi will be out of question (nearly)forever.
what i was taking about was that when we say that money is not that much a problem , as i qouted. and when u lack a new generation aircraft and when the conditions seem that u can get some , i.e Eurofighter Typhoon etc. where u may have the advantage of getting the spares from mutilple sources
and keeping in view the existing aging fleet,dont u thnk 2010 will be a bit toooo late . :?:
the Migs and Sukhoi will be out of question (nearly)forever.
what i was taking about was that when we say that money is not that much a problem , as i qouted. and when u lack a new generation aircraft and when the conditions seem that u can get some , i.e Eurofighter Typhoon etc. where u may have the advantage of getting the spares from mutilple sources
and keeping in view the existing aging fleet,dont u thnk 2010 will be a bit toooo late . :?:
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
man! I really want the U.S. empire to shut its mouth and mind its own business... I hope PAF can see that this is a major trap layed for it so that it is technologically crippled.........I hope they get some new n better aircrafts real soon cuz the longer they wait the more imbalance India will create!
You need to settle down a bit, This kind of rhetoric is borderline. Tone it down or your threads will start to be modified accordingly
man! I really want the U.S. empire to shut its mouth and mind its own business... I hope PAF can see that this is a major trap layed for it so that it is technologically crippled.........I hope they get some new n better aircrafts real soon cuz the longer they wait the more imbalance India will create!
You need to settle down a bit, This kind of rhetoric is borderline. Tone it down or your threads will start to be modified accordingly
Roger Smith
New Member
OoqadOqaab said:
I am sorry if I upset you.
I have noticed from your aforementioned statement that you are contradicting yourself. You are aware that no country in the world except China will supply fighter aircraft to Pakistan.
In regards to funds, I am aware Pakistan's forex (foreign exchange) reserves are approx. $12 billion, it has to clear its international debts prior to purchase of any arms or fighter aircraft, otherwise the IMF, World Bank, ADB, EU and other International Financial Institutions will refrain further loans to Pakistan, this are the facts.
Take care and take life easy.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
listen! the bottom line is that if pakistan don't manage to induct fc-1's by 2007-8 they will just simply buy mirage 2000-5's of france.
if pakistan are to be in a stable position this is what i expect the airforce to be like by 2010.
F-16 15 which include the stored ones
Mirage2000-5 45
FC-1 100 at least
f-7MG 70
K-8 60
listen! the bottom line is that if pakistan don't manage to induct fc-1's by 2007-8 they will just simply buy mirage 2000-5's of france.
if pakistan are to be in a stable position this is what i expect the airforce to be like by 2010.
F-16 15 which include the stored ones
Mirage2000-5 45
FC-1 100 at least
f-7MG 70
K-8 60
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
This is my first day and visit & I like what i see.
Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
Well We Pakistanis messed it big time when we did not use the Boeing or Airbus Jetliner Selection for PIA as a bargaining tool for the release or the Purchase of Latest aircrafts.
And I would like to add that an aircraft alone does not matter its what with it and in it that realy counts example Saudia Arab's purchase of F15s which is a good airplane but far inferrior to their American or Israiele CounTerpart.(for refference read 11-93 or 8/93 of Military Technology, an decade old article but still holds true today.) :idea:
This is my first day and visit & I like what i see.
Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
Well We Pakistanis messed it big time when we did not use the Boeing or Airbus Jetliner Selection for PIA as a bargaining tool for the release or the Purchase of Latest aircrafts.
And I would like to add that an aircraft alone does not matter its what with it and in it that realy counts example Saudia Arab's purchase of F15s which is a good airplane but far inferrior to their American or Israiele CounTerpart.(for refference read 11-93 or 8/93 of Military Technology, an decade old article but still holds true today.) :idea:
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
u're telling me we shud just have 380 or so aircraft by 2010 while India is piling up its fleet bound to reach 1500 by 2010.....we need to get atleast 700 aircraft by 2010 if pakistan wants its pilot training to be worth the pain of putting the pilots thru....... other wise trained pilots wud have a lower morale when they done have adequate aircraft after such excellent training!
u're telling me we shud just have 380 or so aircraft by 2010 while India is piling up its fleet bound to reach 1500 by 2010.....we need to get atleast 700 aircraft by 2010 if pakistan wants its pilot training to be worth the pain of putting the pilots thru....... other wise trained pilots wud have a lower morale when they done have adequate aircraft after such excellent training!
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
i totally agrre with ya on the quantity mate. but i only listed the attack aircrafts we should have. but u got to keep in mind that maintaining 1500 aircraft costs alot and pakistan can't take out more loans or they just will get themselves into deep ******. the only solusion pak has is to buy hi-tech surface to air missiles.
i totally agrre with ya on the quantity mate. but i only listed the attack aircrafts we should have. but u got to keep in mind that maintaining 1500 aircraft costs alot and pakistan can't take out more loans or they just will get themselves into deep ******. the only solusion pak has is to buy hi-tech surface to air missiles.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
I will go for same number of Rafael rather than Mirage because it more advance and more cost efficient in long run.
And maintain current f16 fleet
yes 100 FC-1
60 k-8 with light ground attack capability li hawk-200
and 6 t0 8 tanker air crafts
and
AWE&C is a must
and its a wish list only
P.A.F said:
I will go for same number of Rafael rather than Mirage because it more advance and more cost efficient in long run.
And maintain current f16 fleet
yes 100 FC-1
60 k-8 with light ground attack capability li hawk-200
and 6 t0 8 tanker air crafts
and
AWE&C is a must
and its a wish list only
The Watcher
New Member
Close to 500 hi quality jets with a lot of good short and long range SAMs would be a good direction to go to for Pakistan as its economy is not that strong to support 1500 jets. :eek
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
I never said Pakistan shud get 1500...I said India wud have 1500 by 2010.. so I said we shud atleast have 700 or if we're not willing to spend then 600 ....500 wud still be a lil low from what i can see... I mean come on! u cant really let india have 1000 more figher jets than u have! lol.. that wud be an insane decision...keepin half the indian numbers wud be just fine!
I never said Pakistan shud get 1500...I said India wud have 1500 by 2010.. so I said we shud atleast have 700 or if we're not willing to spend then 600 ....500 wud still be a lil low from what i can see... I mean come on! u cant really let india have 1000 more figher jets than u have! lol.. that wud be an insane decision...keepin half the indian numbers wud be just fine!
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
French systems have a different feel and build to it than American ones. American platforms are more modular where each sub system of an aircraft is part of a separate module so its easier to repair. About the French system I only have knowledge about the Mirage III and V platforms and the engineers who work on them always say it's easier to work on the F-16 than on the Mirage.
As far as cheaper is concerned I was of the idea that French systems are more expensive.
:?
And who told you that??? :rollP.A.F said:
French systems have a different feel and build to it than American ones. American platforms are more modular where each sub system of an aircraft is part of a separate module so its easier to repair. About the French system I only have knowledge about the Mirage III and V platforms and the engineers who work on them always say it's easier to work on the F-16 than on the Mirage.
As far as cheaper is concerned I was of the idea that French systems are more expensive.
:?