Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]
- Thread starter Mukesh Patel
- Start date
elkaboingo
New Member
most of all, we need DATALINK. then those ft2000's will fit the bill nicely.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
I think something like an Ericcson side scanning system on an Embraer would be ideal. Pakistan doesn't need to have a rotunda type AWACs.
The other ideal platform would be Lockheeds C130 type conversion. (which is a mini rotunda)
Smaller side scanning phased arrays could be applied to a number of smaller commercial aircraft like the Embraer or Gulfstream sized platforms.
I think something like an Ericcson side scanning system on an Embraer would be ideal. Pakistan doesn't need to have a rotunda type AWACs.
The other ideal platform would be Lockheeds C130 type conversion. (which is a mini rotunda)
Smaller side scanning phased arrays could be applied to a number of smaller commercial aircraft like the Embraer or Gulfstream sized platforms.
elkaboingo
New Member
if we had the money, i'd really like an airbus a330 with the full blown AWACS, datalink and the whole
kit'n'kaboodle. the navy might want this too.
kit'n'kaboodle. the navy might want this too.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
One of the things for me is that in smaller militaries there should be a greater focus on dispersal of critical assets. This is primarily an issue of redundancy to spread the risk of loss.
Smaller AWAcs may allow the purchase of more units, it also permits a broader overlap of coverage, which in itself is a validation process.
One of the things for me is that in smaller militaries there should be a greater focus on dispersal of critical assets. This is primarily an issue of redundancy to spread the risk of loss.
Smaller AWAcs may allow the purchase of more units, it also permits a broader overlap of coverage, which in itself is a validation process.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
The army used to be the darling of the defence budget during the 80s&90s.I'm glad it's changing. :smokingc:
Regarding what what gf said about our early detection capability,Pakistan's low level radars (except for the border sector alongside Runn Of Kutch Gujarat ) give us a sweep over all the first and second tier Indian FOBs thus providing early warning of an incoming raid from there. The ECM/ESM fleet currently comprises of a measelly 2 Dassault Falcon20 aircraft.This has to be either augmented or replaced by new stand off jamming/ ELINT aircraft in the same class upto at least 12 in number to provide a wide area standoff cover.(all PAF fighters even F-7s are equipped with airborne active jammers internally) the ccc centres are how can I put it quite secure for now but more needs to be done.AWACS is winter a top priority Pakistan has already selected the radar the ERRICSON EIRYIE(spelling?) which is quite similar to the Phalcon.The airframe is still to be decided for it's mounting.I know a bit more but I deem it to be sensitive.When in my last post I said priority gf I meant that the PAF has put 4gen fighter on hold and is focusing on rectifying and strengthening it's position in the ccc,gci EWC and EAD areas.Winter said:
The army used to be the darling of the defence budget during the 80s&90s.I'm glad it's changing. :smokingc:
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
I didn't want to say too much re Pakistans selection of the Ericsson ERIEYE as I wasn't sure of how far it had progressed.
But as a platform, Brazil's Embrarer/145 would be an ideal choice.
A modern AWACs integrated into the countries EAD/C4i network is critical - far more important than any volume fighter purchase.
I didn't want to say too much re Pakistans selection of the Ericsson ERIEYE as I wasn't sure of how far it had progressed.
But as a platform, Brazil's Embrarer/145 would be an ideal choice.
A modern AWACs integrated into the countries EAD/C4i network is critical - far more important than any volume fighter purchase.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
Kuwait was looking at getting rid of its 14 Mirage F.1CK/BK's at one stage, maybe Pakistan should see what the status of that is. Are they still up for disposal sale?
Kuwait was looking at getting rid of its 14 Mirage F.1CK/BK's at one stage, maybe Pakistan should see what the status of that is. Are they still up for disposal sale?
Majin-Vegeta
Banned Member
i think Pakistan should buy european fighters..maybe make better relations with them 
its a good idea..right?
its a good idea..right?Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
I reckon pakistan now needs to stay patient. I guess they must have a large sum of money saved from their annual budgets. Look at how many years pakistanm has not bought serious aircraft. One cant count as it has been so long, likewise, the annual budget has not gone to waste apart from the portion taken for maintenance of current aircraft.
Likewise, they should stick to this money and use it once a satisfactory deal goes through. For now they should rely on the production of the JF-17 which should be capable of making a large difference when added to the current fleet of F-7s and Mirages. On the sides, they should try and push China to providing the Flankers and also try fishing around for some cheap fulcrums from countries such as Ukraine.
I reckon pakistan now needs to stay patient. I guess they must have a large sum of money saved from their annual budgets. Look at how many years pakistanm has not bought serious aircraft. One cant count as it has been so long, likewise, the annual budget has not gone to waste apart from the portion taken for maintenance of current aircraft.
Likewise, they should stick to this money and use it once a satisfactory deal goes through. For now they should rely on the production of the JF-17 which should be capable of making a large difference when added to the current fleet of F-7s and Mirages. On the sides, they should try and push China to providing the Flankers and also try fishing around for some cheap fulcrums from countries such as Ukraine.
Majin-Vegeta
Banned Member
i agree...i guess they need to compete with IAF or else it could mean big trouble :S i would also suggest Mig 29's or somethin close by..because they need some good offense..the only good offense i see that Pakistan has is its F-16's or maybe even Mirage III, but they really need to get more advanced and newer fighters, i also heard they have fewer fighters than india...is dat true?
elkaboingo
New Member
what kind of c4i system do we have. i say go for the tech like datalinking and awacs and buy j-10 from china.
fancy european fighters are useless is you dont have the awacs, midair refueling, and c4i to give them their max potency.
fancy european fighters are useless is you dont have the awacs, midair refueling, and c4i to give them their max potency.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
I'm sure the Pakistan Air force knows what it needs and that to a certain extent relies on diplomatic circumstances. It is vitally important for Pakistan's defences to have a quality networked air defence system comprised of ground based radar, and an AWACS capability linked to a quality ground based air defence capability and supported by a quality air force. What is important in my view is the capability generated rather than the name brand of the platforms used, but Pakistan should be looking for a top-tier "Western" fighter in my view. I sincerely believe the 2 -tier fighter system is the way to go for modern air forces. It is strategically important for Pakistan to operate an aircraft that matches or exceeds the capabilities of India's top fighters (ie: SU30MKI). It is equally as important in my view for Pakistan to operate an aircraft that they can afford to purchase in significant numbers, whether this is a chinese aircraft or perhaps second hand but upgraded aircraft (such as surplus F-16's perhaps). Cheers.
I'm sure the Pakistan Air force knows what it needs and that to a certain extent relies on diplomatic circumstances. It is vitally important for Pakistan's defences to have a quality networked air defence system comprised of ground based radar, and an AWACS capability linked to a quality ground based air defence capability and supported by a quality air force. What is important in my view is the capability generated rather than the name brand of the platforms used, but Pakistan should be looking for a top-tier "Western" fighter in my view. I sincerely believe the 2 -tier fighter system is the way to go for modern air forces. It is strategically important for Pakistan to operate an aircraft that matches or exceeds the capabilities of India's top fighters (ie: SU30MKI). It is equally as important in my view for Pakistan to operate an aircraft that they can afford to purchase in significant numbers, whether this is a chinese aircraft or perhaps second hand but upgraded aircraft (such as surplus F-16's perhaps). Cheers.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
And as I meant to say in my last post, a 2 tier force of Eurofighters and upgraded f-16's supported by an AWACS force (Erieye would be a good choice in my opinion) and an air to air refuelling capability (possibly C-130 based, to provide a duel use tanker/transport capability) and a quality air defence system would be Pakistan's dream force, I guess, but with Pakistan's well known and regarded training and logistics support capabilities would ensure Pakistan's security against pretty much anyone...
And as I meant to say in my last post, a 2 tier force of Eurofighters and upgraded f-16's supported by an AWACS force (Erieye would be a good choice in my opinion) and an air to air refuelling capability (possibly C-130 based, to provide a duel use tanker/transport capability) and a quality air defence system would be Pakistan's dream force, I guess, but with Pakistan's well known and regarded training and logistics support capabilities would ensure Pakistan's security against pretty much anyone...
elkaboingo
New Member
air to air refueling is almost useless for us. its fairly inefficient and is just a luxury for us.
western fighters are too expensive and will play havoc with our logistics and maintanence crews.
if we have j-10 (which is a fairly good aircraft) supported by AWACS and real time datalinking we can toast anything that comes our way.
we have already bought the ft2000 SAMs and their ground radars are already here.
used f-16's are useless to us. they are old and wont stand a chance against su-30s and you can get the better newer j-10 for about the same price or a little more.
western fighters are too expensive and will play havoc with our logistics and maintanence crews.
if we have j-10 (which is a fairly good aircraft) supported by AWACS and real time datalinking we can toast anything that comes our way.
we have already bought the ft2000 SAMs and their ground radars are already here.
used f-16's are useless to us. they are old and wont stand a chance against su-30s and you can get the better newer j-10 for about the same price or a little more.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
Has the PAF done aggressor flyoffs against the J-10?
Has the PAF done aggressor flyoffs against the J-10?
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
Why would air to air refuelling be almost uesless? It extends your combat mission time and combat air patrol endurance in a way that no other capability can manage. It is a force multiplying capability that is recognised as being essential by just about every modern air force in the world. And "old" F-16's have no chance against Su-30MKI's eh? Well I wouldn't be too sure about that. Russian equipment seems to have an ongoing ability to not really live up to the expectations placed upon it. It always outperforms every other piece of equipment in every possible area and yet costs a fraction of the cost of Western equipment. Doesn't seem to add up to me...
Why would air to air refuelling be almost uesless? It extends your combat mission time and combat air patrol endurance in a way that no other capability can manage. It is a force multiplying capability that is recognised as being essential by just about every modern air force in the world. And "old" F-16's have no chance against Su-30MKI's eh? Well I wouldn't be too sure about that. Russian equipment seems to have an ongoing ability to not really live up to the expectations placed upon it. It always outperforms every other piece of equipment in every possible area and yet costs a fraction of the cost of Western equipment. Doesn't seem to add up to me...
elkaboingo
New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
we havent even seen j-10 yet
unless we got an f-16 block 60/62 or the israeli one, it aint gonna stand up to the highly maneuverable MKI with israeli avionics and weapons and stuff. no the MLU will not suffice.
try and think through our eyes, air to air refueling is just too much. even when flying 24/7 CAPs its cheaper to land and refuel and have the pilot take a break while some one else goes up.
we have enough range to get to the closest IAF bases, but even if we had the range to get to the farther ones, would it help? our planes would be detected by the awacs. :roll . with the H-4 (which is MUPSOW) it increases our strike range without more risk to the pilot.
we havent even seen j-10 yet
unless we got an f-16 block 60/62 or the israeli one, it aint gonna stand up to the highly maneuverable MKI with israeli avionics and weapons and stuff. no the MLU will not suffice.
try and think through our eyes, air to air refueling is just too much. even when flying 24/7 CAPs its cheaper to land and refuel and have the pilot take a break while some one else goes up.
we have enough range to get to the closest IAF bases, but even if we had the range to get to the farther ones, would it help? our planes would be detected by the awacs. :roll . with the H-4 (which is MUPSOW) it increases our strike range without more risk to the pilot.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????
J-10 has been evaluated by us,just waiting for some engine related glitches to be rectified(I have inside sources u know !)In-flight refuelers are a must. In order to understand their importance Kaboings I suggest u read a good book on aircraft tactics and strategy and force cohesion(me read many forgot names and authors.only books I remember nowadays are related to accounting and business management)
The F-16s(2nd hands) are a viable option for Mirage replacement.The JF-17 can handle air-air just fine.People tend to confuse the 90% capable statement about the Thunder with the F-16s avionics performance.I had this cleared up, the maneauverability of the Thunder is 90%+ that of the Falcon's but the avionics for this plane will put it just a notch below the Block 50/52 F-16s
As mentioned earlier PAF is trying(santions resumption is a stumbling point) go for a western 4th gen platform as well as the J-10, most probably the EF Typhoon followed by the Super Hornet(we like to keep the Uncle option open ) the Mirage2k5 or the Rafale
Wrong Kaboings!elkaboingo said:we havent even seen j-10 yet
unless we got an f-16 block 60/62 or the israeli one, it aint gonna stand up to the highly maneuverable MKI with israeli avionics and weapons and stuff. no the MLU will not suffice.
try and think through our eyes, air to air refueling is just too much. even when flying 24/7 CAPs its cheaper to land and refuel and have the pilot take a break while some one else goes up.
we have enough range to get to the closest IAF bases, but even if we had the range to get to the farther ones, would it help? our planes would be detected by the awacs. :roll . with the H-4 (which is MUPSOW) it increases our strike range without more risk to the pilot.
J-10 has been evaluated by us,just waiting for some engine related glitches to be rectified(I have inside sources u know !)In-flight refuelers are a must. In order to understand their importance Kaboings I suggest u read a good book on aircraft tactics and strategy and force cohesion(me read many forgot names and authors.only books I remember nowadays are related to accounting and business management)The F-16s(2nd hands) are a viable option for Mirage replacement.The JF-17 can handle air-air just fine.People tend to confuse the 90% capable statement about the Thunder with the F-16s avionics performance.I had this cleared up, the maneauverability of the Thunder is 90%+ that of the Falcon's but the avionics for this plane will put it just a notch below the Block 50/52 F-16s
As mentioned earlier PAF is trying(santions resumption is a stumbling point) go for a western 4th gen platform as well as the J-10, most probably the EF Typhoon followed by the Super Hornet(we like to keep the Uncle option open
) the Mirage2k5 or the Rafale