Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]
- Thread starter Mukesh Patel
- Start date
Nothing out of US state department on F-18s so nothing can be commented at the moment.
F-16s should have AIM-120 AMRAAMs, other wise the deal is useless. Usualy its a part of package & is subject to be exported so I guess there are 100% chance of them coming with F-16s. Besides its the need of modern air combat, so F-16s realy cant go up in the air for a battle with out it.
The real question is RADAR System.
F-16s should have AIM-120 AMRAAMs, other wise the deal is useless. Usualy its a part of package & is subject to be exported so I guess there are 100% chance of them coming with F-16s. Besides its the need of modern air combat, so F-16s realy cant go up in the air for a battle with out it.
The real question is RADAR System.
the Aim-120 is perfectly compatible with the Block 52 Radar But i think the PAF CAS was more concerned about the Avionics Radar and Weapon system rather then the Airframe so he might be choose an increased Customized version then Just the Standard Block 52+ .A Khan said:So Sabre. with regards to Radar system, what are the options? I read somewhere about AESA, (not sure if i spelled it correctly) but can you tell us a bit about that? mostly interested in the range.
Yeah, coustomized version seems likely which could be bit inferior to Block 60 but superior to standard block 52+.
I have been told by a "friend" that block 52+ & 60 are not realy much different. Some Avionics are superior on block 60 but main superiority is in Radar & the Block 60 has two external fuel tanks which allows the space of Drop Tanks to be freed for more payload.
Abt the RADAR, AESA is on the option but I'll hold my hourses till LH-M come to Pakistan. To me so far the F-16 sale holds no relevance untill the iron clad contract is signed stating that Pakistan wont be subject of Ban from purchase in future regardless the change in govt. but m still happy though, very happy
I have been told by a "friend" that block 52+ & 60 are not realy much different. Some Avionics are superior on block 60 but main superiority is in Radar & the Block 60 has two external fuel tanks which allows the space of Drop Tanks to be freed for more payload.
Abt the RADAR, AESA is on the option but I'll hold my hourses till LH-M come to Pakistan. To me so far the F-16 sale holds no relevance untill the iron clad contract is signed stating that Pakistan wont be subject of Ban from purchase in future regardless the change in govt. but m still happy though, very happy
Just read about the Block 60's AESA radar, and it seems like real HIGH-tech, so i dont think we should expect it with our 1 order of "24". Maybe for the second order, we can always hope. But over all, block 52+ with, some block 60 parts, is a really good deal for PAF... just cant wait for the LH-M delegation to arrive. So any chance of the AC's arriving before the normal 2-3 years production time?
Block 60 is different generation of Weapon system its Handling aspects its mission computers its Radar System, its Dorsal Spine, which by the way allows Chaffs and Flare, EW Stuff Housing and Excess Avionics room. the Block 60 is a different Platform altogether, its not a matter of just Avionics and Radar. the Platform has been updated and redesigned in aspects. it has a Mounted FLIR for increased Stealth (Pods Eliminated). Everything is different it comes with a Considerably Better Flight control which makes the AC more reactive and Responsive, all this stuff is Just not Augmented on to the Block 52+, its completely new stuff there fore its taken so long. New avionics Design takes time every aspect of the AC including structural Mods take time to Test. New source "Block codes" (Software Eng Term) for the Flight control, Weapons Fire control Sensor input everything needs Exhaustive testing. Just a mental Note these Ac are future Upgradable since Technology is shrinking for instance BAE systems(uk) Has developed
a type of Flight Nav Gyro its silicon based so it Compact light weight and absolutely indestructible (Robust) its tiny compared to Conventional version.
Have a alook at teh Link its worth a read!!!
http://www.xflight.de/f16/pe_org_par_lxc_chaffflare.htm#Pictures
a type of Flight Nav Gyro its silicon based so it Compact light weight and absolutely indestructible (Robust) its tiny compared to Conventional version.
Have a alook at teh Link its worth a read!!!
http://www.xflight.de/f16/pe_org_par_lxc_chaffflare.htm#Pictures
fieldmarshal
New Member
US Congress approval for F-16s to take 2 months
By Anwar Iqbal Link http://www.dawn.com/2005/04/01/top10.htm
WASHINGTON, March 31: It will take almost two months to get congressional approval for selling US-made F-16 aircraft to Pakistan, the State Department told Dawn.
On March 25, the Bush administration announced its plan to sell an unspecified number of F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan.
Diplomatic sources in Washington said that Pakistan had asked for 26 aircraft but senior US officials, while announcing the offer, said there was no limit on how many planes Pakistan can buy. Since then some Pakistani officials have indicated that they may ask for 70 F-16 aircraft.
On Wednesday, US ambassador to Islamabad Ryan C. Crocker told reporters that a technical team would visit Pakistan next month to discuss specifics relating to the sale of the aircraft. But before the sale is finalized, the Bush administration needs formal approval from both houses of the US Congress.
Hours after announcing the offer, the administration conveyed its intention of selling F-16s to Pakistan to Congress as part of the Javits report. Named after former Senator Jacob Javits of New York, the report is an annual requirement. Every February, the US President must submit this report to Congress, which includes:
An Arms Sales Proposal listing all probable Foreign Military Sales or Direct Commercial Sales exports for the current calendar year that exceed $7 million for major weapons or weapons-related defence equipment or $25 million for other weapons or weapons-related defence equipment.
Though not classified, the Javits report has never been released to the public. Explaining the legal procedure for seeking Congressional approval, State Department officials told Dawn the administration had already started the pre-consultation process.
During this process, administration officials discuss with the staff of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the House International Relations Committee various aspects of a proposed sale. "We answer their questions, telling them what we want to do. If they have any major objections they will let us know," said a State Department official
By Anwar Iqbal Link http://www.dawn.com/2005/04/01/top10.htm
WASHINGTON, March 31: It will take almost two months to get congressional approval for selling US-made F-16 aircraft to Pakistan, the State Department told Dawn.
On March 25, the Bush administration announced its plan to sell an unspecified number of F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan.
Diplomatic sources in Washington said that Pakistan had asked for 26 aircraft but senior US officials, while announcing the offer, said there was no limit on how many planes Pakistan can buy. Since then some Pakistani officials have indicated that they may ask for 70 F-16 aircraft.
On Wednesday, US ambassador to Islamabad Ryan C. Crocker told reporters that a technical team would visit Pakistan next month to discuss specifics relating to the sale of the aircraft. But before the sale is finalized, the Bush administration needs formal approval from both houses of the US Congress.
Hours after announcing the offer, the administration conveyed its intention of selling F-16s to Pakistan to Congress as part of the Javits report. Named after former Senator Jacob Javits of New York, the report is an annual requirement. Every February, the US President must submit this report to Congress, which includes:
An Arms Sales Proposal listing all probable Foreign Military Sales or Direct Commercial Sales exports for the current calendar year that exceed $7 million for major weapons or weapons-related defence equipment or $25 million for other weapons or weapons-related defence equipment.
Though not classified, the Javits report has never been released to the public. Explaining the legal procedure for seeking Congressional approval, State Department officials told Dawn the administration had already started the pre-consultation process.
During this process, administration officials discuss with the staff of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the House International Relations Committee various aspects of a proposed sale. "We answer their questions, telling them what we want to do. If they have any major objections they will let us know," said a State Department official
http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20050331-035013-4637r
Pakistan has to wait for F-16s
By Anwar Iqbal
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
Published March 31, 2005
WASHINGTON -- Pakistan may have to wait up to two months for the F-16 fighter jets the United States promised last week because the deal still needs congressional approval, U.S. officials say.
On March 25, the Bush administration announced it will sell an unspecified number of F-16s to Pakistan. Diplomatic sources in Washington said Pakistan wanted 26 planes, but senior U.S. officials, while announcing the offer, said there were no limits on how many aircraft Pakistan could buy. Since then, some Pakistani officials have indicated they may ask for 70 F-16s.
On Wednesday, Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador in Islamabad, said a U.S. technical team will visit Pakistan next month to discuss the deal, but formal congressional approval is needed before the sale is finalized.
Hours after making the announcement last week, the administration conveyed its intentions to Congress as part of the Javits report. Named for former Sen. Jacob Javits, R-N.Y., the report is an annual requirement and mandates the president to list all probable foreign military sales or direct commercial sales exports that exceed $7 million for major weapons or weapons-related defense equipment or $25 million for other weapons or weapons-related defense equipment. Although not classified, the report has never been released to the public.
Explaining the procedure for Congressional approval, State Department officials told United Press International the administration had begun the pre-consultation process with Congress. Administration officials discuss with the staff of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the House International Relations Committee various aspects of the proposed sale.
"We answer their questions, telling them what we want to do," said a State Department official. "If they have any major objections they will let us know."
Once this process is complete, the proposed sale enters a 20-day informal notification period and then moves into a 30-day formal notification period. During this process, Congress can block the sale but to do so, both houses are required to introduce and pass resolutions of disapproval.
As part of the process, both committees can hold formal hearings, asking senior administration officials, usually at the level of assistant secretary of State, to explain the sale.
There are no set deadlines for the process and even the initial pre-consultation process can go beyond the stipulated 20 days.
"We are not required to make a decision based on the pre-consultations but it is important that we work with Congress so that all their questions are answered," said the State Department official.
If lawmakers raise no objection, the proposal is considered approved with or without a formal hearing.
Both Pakistan and India, which has tempered its criticism of the deal, have supporters in Congress. Analysts in Washington say, however, the Indian reaction to the sale has been muted and credit the Bush administration's handling of the deal for the lack of overt criticism.
While announcing the sale to Pakistan, the administration also unveiled a plan to sell sophisticated weapons to India and said it wanted to help India become "a major world power."
As part of its plan to enhance India's defense, the United States has offered to sell F-18 aircraft to New Delhi, with a license to manufacture them in India. It is for the first time the United States has offered to sell its land and carrier-based F-18s to any country, including NATO allies.
In another development, U.S. aviation manufacturer Lockheed Martin said last weekend it was ready to build "exclusive" F-16s, much superior to any existing fighters in service world over, for the Indian air force.
The United States has also offered India technical support and expertise for producing nuclear energy and cooperation in space technology. The proposed plan also includes offers to help India increase its missile-defense and early-warning systems.
The F-16 deal with India, like weapons-locating radars and a new contract for U.S. naval cover for Indian submarines in distress, is part of a government-to-government deal under the foreign military sales system, which would enable delivery of fighters on fast-track basis.
Under the agreement, India will get up to 18 aircraft in fly-away conditions and the remaining 108 will be assembled in India under transferred technology.
Along with the sales of the fighter jets, Washington may allow the sale of the entire array of weapons platforms mounted on it, including beyond visual range air-to-air missiles and 62-mile standoff ground target engaging missiles.
Pakistan has to wait for F-16s
By Anwar Iqbal
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
Published March 31, 2005
WASHINGTON -- Pakistan may have to wait up to two months for the F-16 fighter jets the United States promised last week because the deal still needs congressional approval, U.S. officials say.
On March 25, the Bush administration announced it will sell an unspecified number of F-16s to Pakistan. Diplomatic sources in Washington said Pakistan wanted 26 planes, but senior U.S. officials, while announcing the offer, said there were no limits on how many aircraft Pakistan could buy. Since then, some Pakistani officials have indicated they may ask for 70 F-16s.
On Wednesday, Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador in Islamabad, said a U.S. technical team will visit Pakistan next month to discuss the deal, but formal congressional approval is needed before the sale is finalized.
Hours after making the announcement last week, the administration conveyed its intentions to Congress as part of the Javits report. Named for former Sen. Jacob Javits, R-N.Y., the report is an annual requirement and mandates the president to list all probable foreign military sales or direct commercial sales exports that exceed $7 million for major weapons or weapons-related defense equipment or $25 million for other weapons or weapons-related defense equipment. Although not classified, the report has never been released to the public.
Explaining the procedure for Congressional approval, State Department officials told United Press International the administration had begun the pre-consultation process with Congress. Administration officials discuss with the staff of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the House International Relations Committee various aspects of the proposed sale.
"We answer their questions, telling them what we want to do," said a State Department official. "If they have any major objections they will let us know."
Once this process is complete, the proposed sale enters a 20-day informal notification period and then moves into a 30-day formal notification period. During this process, Congress can block the sale but to do so, both houses are required to introduce and pass resolutions of disapproval.
As part of the process, both committees can hold formal hearings, asking senior administration officials, usually at the level of assistant secretary of State, to explain the sale.
There are no set deadlines for the process and even the initial pre-consultation process can go beyond the stipulated 20 days.
"We are not required to make a decision based on the pre-consultations but it is important that we work with Congress so that all their questions are answered," said the State Department official.
If lawmakers raise no objection, the proposal is considered approved with or without a formal hearing.
Both Pakistan and India, which has tempered its criticism of the deal, have supporters in Congress. Analysts in Washington say, however, the Indian reaction to the sale has been muted and credit the Bush administration's handling of the deal for the lack of overt criticism.
While announcing the sale to Pakistan, the administration also unveiled a plan to sell sophisticated weapons to India and said it wanted to help India become "a major world power."
As part of its plan to enhance India's defense, the United States has offered to sell F-18 aircraft to New Delhi, with a license to manufacture them in India. It is for the first time the United States has offered to sell its land and carrier-based F-18s to any country, including NATO allies.
In another development, U.S. aviation manufacturer Lockheed Martin said last weekend it was ready to build "exclusive" F-16s, much superior to any existing fighters in service world over, for the Indian air force.
The United States has also offered India technical support and expertise for producing nuclear energy and cooperation in space technology. The proposed plan also includes offers to help India increase its missile-defense and early-warning systems.
The F-16 deal with India, like weapons-locating radars and a new contract for U.S. naval cover for Indian submarines in distress, is part of a government-to-government deal under the foreign military sales system, which would enable delivery of fighters on fast-track basis.
Under the agreement, India will get up to 18 aircraft in fly-away conditions and the remaining 108 will be assembled in India under transferred technology.
Along with the sales of the fighter jets, Washington may allow the sale of the entire array of weapons platforms mounted on it, including beyond visual range air-to-air missiles and 62-mile standoff ground target engaging missiles.
http://netindia123.com/showdetails.asp?id=75343&cat=Asia&head=F-16s+to+Pak+useless+after+5+yrs%3A+Nawaz+Sharif
F-16s to Pak useless after 5 yrs: Nawaz Sharif
Lahore | April 01, 2005 1:28:15 PM IST
Former Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has said that the F-16 fighter jets being supplied by the US to Pakistan would be useless after five years.
The Daily Times quoted him as saying that spare parts of these sophisticated fighter jets would not be available and hence these planes would be rendered useless.He said that the US administration had also not shown any favour to Pakistan by agreeing to supply the jets.
He said that the Pakistan government has denied him his constitutional rights by refusing him a passport, adding that constitutional rights entitled even convicts for a passport.
"The government is trying to defame my party and demoralise our workers," the paper quoted Sharif as saying.
He further said that though the PML-N supported the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal's (MMA's) strike call, it would however follow the decision taken by the Alliance for the Restoration of Democracy (ARD).
Sharif also supported the Baloch people and said that their demands in accordance with the 1973 Constitution were justified. (ANI)
:coffee
F-16s to Pak useless after 5 yrs: Nawaz Sharif
Lahore | April 01, 2005 1:28:15 PM IST
Former Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has said that the F-16 fighter jets being supplied by the US to Pakistan would be useless after five years.
The Daily Times quoted him as saying that spare parts of these sophisticated fighter jets would not be available and hence these planes would be rendered useless.He said that the US administration had also not shown any favour to Pakistan by agreeing to supply the jets.
He said that the Pakistan government has denied him his constitutional rights by refusing him a passport, adding that constitutional rights entitled even convicts for a passport.
"The government is trying to defame my party and demoralise our workers," the paper quoted Sharif as saying.
He further said that though the PML-N supported the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal's (MMA's) strike call, it would however follow the decision taken by the Alliance for the Restoration of Democracy (ARD).
Sharif also supported the Baloch people and said that their demands in accordance with the 1973 Constitution were justified. (ANI)
:coffee
kashifshahzad
Banned Member
If this is the case with F-16's then Pakistan shoudnt go for F-16's try something other like Grippens or Mirages.All people also know abot the former Prime Minister too.So the decision from the Governement will be in the favour of the countryP.A.F said:
akistan
Nawaz Sharif..lol...Do u know after making decisions he used to ask his "driver" wheather he made right decision or not. He amongst the most foolish PMs we ever had & I asure u he knws nothing about F-16s. Just like Sheikh Rashid who was told that C/D are latest versions & he took it.
kashifshahzad
Banned Member
But i think this a serious matter if somebody points towards any thing wrong then govt. should think about it or there could be a big disaster.My freind every thing in this universe have an end and dont you think that F-16's life will end one day so we should also take care of that matter too.SABRE said:
As far as you have said about the PM i dont know that he made decisions after discussing his driver, the idea of YELLOW CAB or YELLOW CAP i dont remember exectly must be given by PM's driver he may be a TAXI driver previously.
How can Information Minister know whether C comes before D or after . I mean which one is latest. This is the matter related to the Defence Ministery
mysterious
New Member
What crap is Nawaz talking abt?!?!? Spare parts not being available? I dont see how they 'were' available to Pakistan in the first place after US embargo on sales to Pakistan but Pakistan kept its fleet in flying condition to this day!!!! And you really think that spare parts of jets wouldn't be available in five years that the US uses the most itself and has no current plans to retire them? Gimme a break. Nawaz Sharif yacking abt F-16s is as good about my grandmother telling me abt the technical differences between Porche and Ferrari !!!!
kashifshahzad
Banned Member
I think the F-16's cant fly when you say InshAllah they need spares lol.I dont get on which bases did PM made the statment that the spares will not be available after 5 years.I think PM have special person in US defenceP.A.F said:what i think nawaz sharif means is that they will become useless after a few years because of other technologhy advancements.
anyway i disagree. the f-16s we get inshallah will last as long as required.
Nawaz might have special persons in US defence as i mensioned above
Why do only US and Britain gets the good PM's and Presidents