Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]
- Thread starter Mukesh Patel
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Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Mebbe this would help. The Superhornets if 20 in number, are purchased, they'll in all likelyhood replace the Masroor based Mirage VPAs in the maritime support role. BTW some officers in the PAF are in favour of purchasing upto 2 squadrons of JH-7As as they could presumably:coffee provide a bigger bang for the buck(though at a lesser technology level) and could also be deployed to cover our western sea approaches without any letting down of the guard on the eastern board.
Mebbe this would help. The Superhornets if 20 in number, are purchased, they'll in all likelyhood replace the Masroor based Mirage VPAs in the maritime support role. BTW some officers in the PAF are in favour of purchasing upto 2 squadrons of JH-7As as they could presumably:coffee provide a bigger bang for the buck(though at a lesser technology level) and could also be deployed to cover our western sea approaches without any letting down of the guard on the eastern board.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Hmm. F-18s can be serious threat to our neighbours AC Career & its Sea Harriers. Since Harriers dont fly SuperSonic & can be found hanging in the air PS they dnt have good A2A capability, the F-18s can realy desimate them. Once gotten rid of Harriers there is not much an AC Career of our neighbour can do to stop F-18s from attacking it.
Hmm. F-18s can be serious threat to our neighbours AC Career & its Sea Harriers. Since Harriers dont fly SuperSonic & can be found hanging in the air PS they dnt have good A2A capability, the F-18s can realy desimate them. Once gotten rid of Harriers there is not much an AC Career of our neighbour can do to stop F-18s from attacking it.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
WE don’t really engage in battle right in the middle of no where out in the sea, there are very few countries in the world that have a blue water navy with as extensive Expeditionary capabilities such as the UK and the US fleets (Logistical availability), with the demise of the Soviet Empire we can safely assume that we’re not going to engage our adversaries alone out in the middle of the sea most of our battles would be fought along side allies with complimentary & complementary capabilities and were going to have RAF assets along side us for contemporary threats. While Baring in mind us employing the Shock and Awe tactics, pounding away by the dozen. In and around the Coast lines out of the Enemies Area of Influence.
There is a saying (LoL) this is me:
Remember together we have the larger Area of Influence & perception
Regardless of what’s the Harrier is fitted with it can never Stand a chance against a super hornet which has a distinctive role, We the UK Royal Navy cannot stand up against a good A2A AC with our Harriers (which are really used as Weapon delivery vehicles for Royal navy Assets protection), we now a days actively rely on the primary non sea based Air cover either provided by the RAF or the coalition assets. The FA-18 E/F is the latest Variant of the US Naval Arsenal, and this is replacing the Tom CATs So I guess India would have to rely on its Mig 29 fleet if Pakistan gets those F-18 E/faaaditya said:
WE don’t really engage in battle right in the middle of no where out in the sea, there are very few countries in the world that have a blue water navy with as extensive Expeditionary capabilities such as the UK and the US fleets (Logistical availability), with the demise of the Soviet Empire we can safely assume that we’re not going to engage our adversaries alone out in the middle of the sea most of our battles would be fought along side allies with complimentary & complementary capabilities and were going to have RAF assets along side us for contemporary threats. While Baring in mind us employing the Shock and Awe tactics, pounding away by the dozen. In and around the Coast lines out of the Enemies Area of Influence.
There is a saying (LoL) this is me:
Remember together we have the larger Area of Influence & perception
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
If you guys are dreaming of PAF getting F-18s then your crasy
. if where having to die over F-16s which we still haven't been given then where he hell do you expect PAF to get F-18s from.
and all these people you hear all this BS off is just pure lies.
If you guys are dreaming of PAF getting F-18s then your crasy
. if where having to die over F-16s which we still haven't been given then where he hell do you expect PAF to get F-18s from.and all these people you hear all this BS off is just pure lies.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
First of all dude! me and sabre personally know our sources and they have never been wrong. Getting them is one thing but Superhornets have been under consideration by the PAF for a long time.Search this thread, you'll find an old post of mine where I had explicitly mentioned the Bug(albiet with a caveat) alongside other options
First of all dude! me and sabre personally know our sources and they have never been wrong. Getting them is one thing but Superhornets have been under consideration by the PAF for a long time.Search this thread, you'll find an old post of mine where I had explicitly mentioned the Bug(albiet with a caveat) alongside other options
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
us has not yet sold pakistan the remaining f-16s what makes u think that it will sell u f-18 and that too the superhornets. usa has also offfered the same aircraft to india also,maybe usa is playing a double game,suppose india goes for f-18 then us will justify selling f-16s to pakistan and vice versa.:coffee
us has not yet sold pakistan the remaining f-16s what makes u think that it will sell u f-18 and that too the superhornets. usa has also offfered the same aircraft to india also,maybe usa is playing a double game,suppose india goes for f-18 then us will justify selling f-16s to pakistan and vice versa.:coffee
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Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Well, I personally know for the fact that the F-18L (Land Version of F-18s) were offered to Pakistan after Soviet's invasion of Afghanistan in 1980. Pakistan was taken aback by this gesture because she was denied even the A-7 Corsairs by Carter. While Pakistan considered the F-18s, General Dynamics approached Pakistan and offered to help in the Congress if Pakistan chose F-16s instead. That was another shock for the Pakistanies. Rest is hostory.
USA is quite capable of offering the unthinkable if it suits its purpose. You will not find it in any press reports or on the internet. But Let me assure you that what I am saying is based on facts and not stories.
Well, I personally know for the fact that the F-18L (Land Version of F-18s) were offered to Pakistan after Soviet's invasion of Afghanistan in 1980. Pakistan was taken aback by this gesture because she was denied even the A-7 Corsairs by Carter. While Pakistan considered the F-18s, General Dynamics approached Pakistan and offered to help in the Congress if Pakistan chose F-16s instead. That was another shock for the Pakistanies. Rest is hostory.
USA is quite capable of offering the unthinkable if it suits its purpose. You will not find it in any press reports or on the internet. But Let me assure you that what I am saying is based on facts and not stories.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
LOL the US does NOt have to Justify Jack Shiet to Anyone about anything. its the Daddy in Town, it is the only Superpower around capable to Doing what it wants, it will always look out for its interests in the regions it wants to project influence onn. It Has its own political Military Interests Separated and compartmentalized into different sections. India Will never ever even think of the Super hornets the Maintenance resources are spread thin as it is IAF and IAF has MKI, Migs with similar roles), adding another layer of Jam Jar would certainly bring the Personnel to the brink. Please think before you speak out Stuff like that. Have some sympathy for the engineers, they are doing a damn well job servicing several different Origin Nation Weapon system OVErlapped. the Complexity may be almost one of a kind.
aaaditya said:
LOL the US does NOt have to Justify Jack Shiet to Anyone about anything. its the Daddy in Town, it is the only Superpower around capable to Doing what it wants, it will always look out for its interests in the regions it wants to project influence onn. It Has its own political Military Interests Separated and compartmentalized into different sections. India Will never ever even think of the Super hornets the Maintenance resources are spread thin as it is IAF and IAF has MKI, Migs with similar roles), adding another layer of Jam Jar would certainly bring the Personnel to the brink. Please think before you speak out Stuff like that. Have some sympathy for the engineers, they are doing a damn well job servicing several different Origin Nation Weapon system OVErlapped. the Complexity may be almost one of a kind.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
F-18s were never offered to India nor did India ask for them. In the history of Sub-Continent only Pakistan has been offered a fighter jet by USA. They offered & Sold F-16s during Afghan war which came very handy & they offered F-18s in return we do not test the Nukes. Since it was Clinton's rule, F-16s were already banned & Pakistan had lost the friendship with US, Pakistan did not care & went ahead of Nukes considering that Nukes r better defence than F-18s.
The only jet IAF has ever asked is F-16 & they have asked them selves. They have not been offered by USA. USA knows the emotions of Pakistani ppl & PAF attached with the F-16s & if sold to IAF, the relationship with Pakistan will seriously be hindered. Even if Pres. Musharaf sticks by US after F-16 sale to US, he him self will lose support in the army, parliment, the mass population & the organization called PAF. Once they go against Musharaf he would have no chance to stayin power. Thats why USA is very considerent in selling F-16s to IAF.
F-18s were never offered to India nor did India ask for them. In the history of Sub-Continent only Pakistan has been offered a fighter jet by USA. They offered & Sold F-16s during Afghan war which came very handy & they offered F-18s in return we do not test the Nukes. Since it was Clinton's rule, F-16s were already banned & Pakistan had lost the friendship with US, Pakistan did not care & went ahead of Nukes considering that Nukes r better defence than F-18s.
The only jet IAF has ever asked is F-16 & they have asked them selves. They have not been offered by USA. USA knows the emotions of Pakistani ppl & PAF attached with the F-16s & if sold to IAF, the relationship with Pakistan will seriously be hindered. Even if Pres. Musharaf sticks by US after F-16 sale to US, he him self will lose support in the army, parliment, the mass population & the organization called PAF. Once they go against Musharaf he would have no chance to stayin power. Thats why USA is very considerent in selling F-16s to IAF.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
well adsh i did'nt say that india will be buying the super hornets all i said was that SUPPOSE india does decide to buy it it will justify pakistans acquisition of the f-16and vice versa.u should have read my post more carefully or not at all instead of jumping to conclusions.
well adsh i did'nt say that india will be buying the super hornets all i said was that SUPPOSE india does decide to buy it it will justify pakistans acquisition of the f-16and vice versa.u should have read my post more carefully or not at all instead of jumping to conclusions.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
India is likely to refuse the offers of F16's. It seems US hasn't agreed for full TOT. And the IAF is more interested in the new Mirage's.
Anywa back to topic about PAF's new acquisitions. It seems the US is taking India and Pak for a ride. Trying to extract as much leverage from both parties, getting India to bend on the Iran pipeline else sell F16's to Pak. Otoh quite openly refraining Pak on the Iran oil deal and getting Pak to bend as much as possible before making the sale, eventually I suspect it has to come.
India is likely to refuse the offers of F16's. It seems US hasn't agreed for full TOT. And the IAF is more interested in the new Mirage's.
Anywa back to topic about PAF's new acquisitions. It seems the US is taking India and Pak for a ride. Trying to extract as much leverage from both parties, getting India to bend on the Iran pipeline else sell F16's to Pak. Otoh quite openly refraining Pak on the Iran oil deal and getting Pak to bend as much as possible before making the sale, eventually I suspect it has to come.
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Anyways I dont knw wheather IAF goes for F-16s or not PAF has been certainly taken back. I think IAF's interest in F-16s has exceeded PAF's interests in F-18s furthur more. The origional plan back in 1990-91 was to have sqdn of both F-16s & F-18s later switched to surplus of F-16s & later F-16s were barred.
I think switching back to F-18 & F-16 combinition would be just fine. F-18s have great radars they can engage any IAF jet including Su-30 & F-16s can take care of MiG-29 & Mirage-2000, Harriers as I said are sitting ducks for F-16s if they entre Pakistani air space & sitting ducks for F-18s if they are in Pakistani sea space. Rest of the IAF jets will be no match for PAF's new F-16s & F-18s if inducted.
But lets be possitive here. Why buy ACs to fight against IAF. Buy AC to bring the Air defence at par & only concentrate on boosting defence than aggression. We are already looking for 4th Gen jet besides F-16s so why not buy F-18s if US agrees to sell.
I'll agree with Srirangan on IAF buying Mirage-2000, since IAF has an experiance on them & they wont be going into all new lay out plans, training, oriantation, placements etc.
IAF should maintain its line up as follow;
1. Su-30
2. MiG-29
3. Mirage-2000
4. MiG-21
5. Jaguars
6. Harrirs
PF should maintains its future line up as follow;
1. F-18s
2. F-16s
3. J-10
4. JF-17
5. JH-7 (Marritime attack AC)
6. Q5D
In some way you are Politicaly correct.srirangan said:
Anyways I dont knw wheather IAF goes for F-16s or not PAF has been certainly taken back. I think IAF's interest in F-16s has exceeded PAF's interests in F-18s furthur more. The origional plan back in 1990-91 was to have sqdn of both F-16s & F-18s later switched to surplus of F-16s & later F-16s were barred.
I think switching back to F-18 & F-16 combinition would be just fine. F-18s have great radars they can engage any IAF jet including Su-30 & F-16s can take care of MiG-29 & Mirage-2000, Harriers as I said are sitting ducks for F-16s if they entre Pakistani air space & sitting ducks for F-18s if they are in Pakistani sea space. Rest of the IAF jets will be no match for PAF's new F-16s & F-18s if inducted.
But lets be possitive here. Why buy ACs to fight against IAF. Buy AC to bring the Air defence at par & only concentrate on boosting defence than aggression. We are already looking for 4th Gen jet besides F-16s so why not buy F-18s if US agrees to sell.
I'll agree with Srirangan on IAF buying Mirage-2000, since IAF has an experiance on them & they wont be going into all new lay out plans, training, oriantation, placements etc.
IAF should maintain its line up as follow;
1. Su-30
2. MiG-29
3. Mirage-2000
4. MiG-21
5. Jaguars
6. Harrirs
PF should maintains its future line up as follow;
1. F-18s
2. F-16s
3. J-10
4. JF-17
5. JH-7 (Marritime attack AC)
6. Q5D
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
But if you are interested in what plans the PAF plans to field "against" the LCA then check out this thread, its about the JF-17/FC1 vs LCA... it should answer your question.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633
Hard to say, cause the one is a plane and the other a country...vrus said:
But if you are interested in what plans the PAF plans to field "against" the LCA then check out this thread, its about the JF-17/FC1 vs LCA... it should answer your question.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
Anyways LCA would go very good against the 2nd generation & their 2.5 & 3rd gen upgraded ACs pretty well & it will probably draw the line at JF-17. Probably both will end up in the same league but initialy LCA seemed inferior.
There was some bragging by Indians on other forums that LCA is equalent to Mirage-2000 that was untill Dessault stated LCA as Mirage-3 upgrade league. If LCA was any where near Mirage2000 IAF wouldnt have bought Mirage2000 but rather push for LCA PS Dessault wouldnt have helped if LCA was going to be equalent, better or any where near its Mirage2000.
Abt IAF LCAs v/s PAF jets than most probably they'll meet JF-17. Mirage-3 Rose upgrade & F-7s are also capable of going against it but most probably JF-17 or Mirage-2ROSE so that they r in the BVR range not WVR.
This is how I look at both LCA & JF-17
LCA = Superior 3rd gen Mirage 3/5
JF-17/FC-1= Superior F-7(MiG-21)
Both Mirage3/5 & MiG-21(F-7) are 60's technology.
hahah..good answer..lolA Khan said:
Anyways LCA would go very good against the 2nd generation & their 2.5 & 3rd gen upgraded ACs pretty well & it will probably draw the line at JF-17. Probably both will end up in the same league but initialy LCA seemed inferior.
There was some bragging by Indians on other forums that LCA is equalent to Mirage-2000 that was untill Dessault stated LCA as Mirage-3 upgrade league. If LCA was any where near Mirage2000 IAF wouldnt have bought Mirage2000 but rather push for LCA PS Dessault wouldnt have helped if LCA was going to be equalent, better or any where near its Mirage2000.
Abt IAF LCAs v/s PAF jets than most probably they'll meet JF-17. Mirage-3 Rose upgrade & F-7s are also capable of going against it but most probably JF-17 or Mirage-2ROSE so that they r in the BVR range not WVR.
This is how I look at both LCA & JF-17
LCA = Superior 3rd gen Mirage 3/5
JF-17/FC-1= Superior F-7(MiG-21)
Both Mirage3/5 & MiG-21(F-7) are 60's technology.
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Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?
No i Understood what your message implied, and believe me i knew you were going to come back with one of these and for my response as it may have been Stress & cafene induced. I do Appologise for veering your Comments off topic i was merely covering the Ground works Just incase. someone else came inn after what you said. And had tried to pretend for a second that India would of ever gotten the F-18. well since its on the Topic and IAF seems to be in the market and Since Pakistan may be, Just May!! be gettign it Well then Maybee Its worth a look for IAF. IAf has to put an end on these Multiple origin Purchases they need to consolidate Pilot training &Logistics issues and need to get over the Maintaince issues. F-18 would never suit IAF Since IAF has the MKI and they seem to be Allot better then the F-18.aaaditya said:well adsh i did'nt say that india will be buying the super hornets all i said was that SUPPOSE india does decide to buy it it will justify pakistans acquisition of the f-16and vice versa.u should have read my post more carefully or not at all instead of jumping to conclusions.