Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for? [Recent F-16 deal news, etc]

Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for?


  • Total voters
    95

SK17

New Member
Re: Who would sell pakistan NEW fighter jets???

Londo Molari said:
I agree 100% that France and China are the only reliable major arms suppliers to Pakistan.
China, i would say 100% reliable but France, I will take it with a pinch of salt or % wise i would say 80% reliable. Oct/Nov 99, France did create some delays by few months for Pak Mirages which were done upgrading in France but eventually they delivered both Mirages and Agosta90b sub as promised to Musharraf govt.
 

corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
Yea France is a good supplier but all their good aircraft r already taken like the Mirage 2000. Only hope now is the rafale if we can mange their expense.
 

lamdacore

New Member
China is a good supplier for Pakistan!!

AOA everyone,

I have been monitoring everones threads and responses on this site. I am would like to let you know that you all have great knowledge. However, a lot of you neglect a few basic things and boast far too much. Everyone has heard the phrase: "What goes up must come down". Well right now US is far up and it is probably time it will come down with great velocity head first into the ground!

Regarding China, it is a great nation and has helped us on many occasions such as the simple gesture it gives to India by lining its forces along the Indian-China border to prevent India to build those very forces along pakistan's border. In a way China is a defender of Pakistan as well. Let's all appreciate its help and pray it prospers.

Also, Chinese technology is not outdated nor advanced as some would say it. They just have equipment suited for a strange type of war. Check out the iraqis (ever heard of people using donkey-carts as a suitable medium for rocket attacks!!!). Well China is pretty much surprising in the same way. They are capable of rivalling every bit of technology by copying it or even countering it!

I think there is a great promise from the FC-1 plane that China and Pakistan have built. This bring about new technological improvements in each country's air force. So let's see which nation will come up with great planes!!
:)
 

corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
I agree that China is a good supplier but in a limited field. China cant provide us with AWACS and modern artilley can it?
 

corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
cuz it aint available and we'd just luv 2 cut links with US but the factor comez in we have 2 be armed 2 our teeth 2 do that.
 

Su_37

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

I don;t know what you people read. See for yourself in the Airshows where every plane shows its skills and AT one time SU37 Pilot openlly challenges the other for open competiotion , even F22 , Eurofighter etc can't even come farward.

The fighting skills , and low speed Knighf and Cobra style attack and Zero degree reverse Turn , can outbeat any missile and aircraft and its maneuverability is unmatched in the world.

If you don't believe it then go for air show where SU pilots challange is still wating ......

Man . u don';t know SU37 capabilities........

Rgarding Sitting ducks ..... first thing any plane has to do is protect itself from SU, becasue their are always behind anyone tails. ;)
 

Su_37

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

Cobra :

Perhaps the most fmous of all, in this move the sukhoi pitches up to 120 degrees angle of attack, and almost stops in mid air. The nose then falls back through to the horizontal, and the aircraft accelerates away in the original direction. There in no major gain or loss in height (unless there is an error of some sort on the entry and recovery.


Hook :

This is a cobra pulled whilst the a/c is turning in a circle so that it points its nose across the circle.

In the Su-37, the cobra and the hook are performed by the pilot disabling the angle of attack (alpha) limiter on the flight control system just prior to the pitch up. The fly-by-wire FCS normally limits the aircraft to 35 degrees alpha, but by disabling the alpha limiter, the pilot can generate up to 110 degrees alpha in the aircraft which does not have TVC. This is simply a demonstration of the aircraft's ability to generate a tremendous pitch rate, without changing the vector of flight.

Kulbit/Somersault :
It is performed by pulling up the machine with a steep angle of incidence (AOA) and a slowing down of the airspeed in an internal vertical role. This loop is extremely small in diameter and is only possible in TVC and FBW equipped aircraft.


Bell/Tailslide :

This involves rising up vertically till the speed is reduced to zero following which the nose is allowed to fall under gravity. The pilot uses this to change direction as desired. The Tailslide also defeats doppler radars on the attacking aircraft.


Some Manuvers only the SU37 can perform..


The Russian-built Sukhoi Su-30MK, the high-performance fighter being exported to India and China, consistently beat the F-15C in classified simulations, say U.S. Air Force and aerospace industry officials.

In certain circumstances, the Su-30 can use its maneuverability, enhanced by thrust-vectoring nozzles, and speed to fool the F-15's radar, fire two missiles and escape before the U.S. fighter can adequately respond. This is according to Air Force officials who have seen the results of extensive studies of multi-aircraft engagements conducted in a complex of 360-deg. simulation domes at Boeing's St. Louis facilities.

"The Su-30 tactic and the success of its escape maneuver permit the second, close-in shot, in case the BVR [beyond-visual-range] shot missed," an Air Force official said. Air Force analysts believe U.S. electronic warfare techniques are adequate to spoof the missile's radar. "That [second shot] is what causes concern to the F-15 community," he said. "Now, the Su-30 pilot is assured two shots plus an effective escape, which greatly increases the total engagement [kill percentage]."

THE SCENARIO in which the Su-30 "always" beats the F-15 involves the Sukhoi taking a shot with a BVR missile (like the AA-12 Adder) and then "turning into the clutter notch of the F-15's radar," the Air Force official said. Getting into the clutter notch where the Doppler radar is ineffective involves making a descending, right-angle turn to drop below the approaching F-15 while reducing the Su-30's relative forward speed close to zero. This is a 20-year-old air combat tactic, but the Russian fighter's maneuverability, ability to dump speed quickly and then rapidly regain acceleration allow it to execute the tactic with great effectiveness, observers said.

If the maneuver is flown correctly, the Su-30 is invisible to the F-15's Doppler radar--which depends on movement of its targets--until the U.S. fighter gets to within range of the AA-11 Archer infrared missile. The AA-11 has a high-off-boresight capability and is used in combination with a helmet-mounted sight and a modern high-speed processor that rapidly spits out the target solution.



http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/info-su30mki.html#12 [/b]
 

Red aRRow

Forum Bouncer
Re: Who would sell pakistan NEW fighter jets???

Looks like all Pakistanis are upset with the U.S. over the non-delivery of the F-16s. :!:
 

Oqaab

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

Well , Pakistan don't have any option to counter this aircraft. Firstly let me tell you that SU30MKI is the Most advance Warplane currently , even it outpase American F-15 in finghting skills , it low speed knigf and cobra attack is deadly. That is why American is intrested in doing War game with india using F15 and Su30.
Rafale and Eurofighter has stealth capability. They can kill Su-30MKI in a dog fight. Comparing Su-30MKI with F-22 Raptor is a stupidity. Its manuverbility may match F-22's manuverbility but not in all respects.

More over ,First of the these Su30 is Air defence fighter and not a multi role planes and these are used to give india a inhand experence, develop skills and tarinaing to it pilots before going to actual Su30MKI

That is why IAf decide to convert these into Maritime Planes to rule over sea .
The real story behind it was IAF Su-30MKI's engines started giving problems after the 28th flanker reached India. All the Su-30MKIs were grounded at once. But now the problem is more or less, solved. I hope HAL will not make this aircraft the second "flying coffin" of IAF.

So my dear Friends pakistan don't have any option against Indian SU30MKI. Bad Luck neareast competitor is F22 and i don't think American will give it.
My dearest friend, any fourth generation fighter with high BVR capability is enough for PAF to counter Su-30MKI. All we need is one or two AWACS planes. Thats it !

Why didn't you buy J-10 for you Air Force and cut all links with USA ?
US will be selling Cobras, P-3s and C-130s to Pakistan. Possibly the harpoon also. No need of cutting ties with US. About J-10, it is not for export till 6-9 years.
 

corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
The Su-37 is pretty good but it aint 4 export yet. If the Su-30 cant match f-22 then the Su-35 can. And wat was the name of that next generation sukhoi fighter agn? S-32?
 

Londo Molari

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

Nothing right now can match the F-22. Nothing.

Gripen, F/A-18, Rafale, Eurofighter, F-22 can ALL challange the Su-30/35/37. They dont fly manouvers in air shows because they have REAL work to do, like be used in air forces. While the Flanker earns majority of its money from just doing tricks.

Su-30 is capable, but it mostly shows off manouverability, and thats not a big help when it gets blown out of the sky by a medium range missile.
 

Londo Molari

New Member
Re: Who would sell pakistan NEW fighter jets???

F-16? We have let that go. Long ago, after being back-stabbed on four separate occasions, we have finally let go of the F-16 dream. The U.S. dangles it as bait every time they want us to do something, and then they never deliver. Instead we get paid back in soybeans, decades later.

Although it looks like our government is still in denial, as they continue to ask for F-16s :roll
 

corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
im thinkin the same way. Its high time we looked over 2 China and France 4 high-techies.

PS abt the AWACS problem. Ukraines got the A-71 which looks pretty good and cud have a bargain price of $50 mill a piece. How abt 10 of these 4 $500 mill?
 

corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
U dont know what ur talkin abt buddy. That plane does all those tricks cuz it has a market 2 get exported 2. The Su-35 is more capable than the F-16 no matter wat version u name. And dont worry, once the Mig 1.44 starts flyin u can kiss ur F-22s bye.

PS the F-22 is a burden on itself with all the price tags it carries. Any1 can make a good aircraft if they spend loads on it. Its the aircraft which gives more and takes less thats the best.
 

Londo Molari

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

Oh my God man. Do you really believe that stuff? If you do fine... But I know the Block 50/60 F-16 is better than Su-35, and the F-22 is better than Mig 1.44 which has been CANCELLED by the way.
 

Gremlin29

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

Never mind the fact that the pilots flying the Su 35's are factory test pilots that know the workings of the plane like no military pilot Ever will. Secondly, I know from performing in airshows myself, US pilots are briefed on EXACTLY what maneuvers and flights we are permitted to perform prior to flying, and taking up a boastful challenges isn't one of em. Taking on challenges isn't something Any responsible aviator would do, particularly at an Airshow with hundreds of thousands of spectators.

The Cobra maneuver is niffty to see, I've seen it in person but it's applicability or more importantly usability in high speed combat is debatable. 3 things a combat pilot Never wants to run out of are 1. Airspeed 2. Altitude 3. Ideas. Anyone that would stand an aircraft on it's tail and put themselves in a high AOA low airspeed flight envelope with a hot fighter on their tail is an idiot. I've seen some of the other wonderful and equally impressive maneuvers the Advanced soviet designs have flown at airshows (again by truely capable and highly experienced factory test pilots), several of which resulted in the plane crashing. High maneuverablity is great don't get me wrong, but gun kills are not the order of the day for todays fighters.

Su35 may be a MATCH for F-15 but who cares? F-15 is 30 years old and scheduled for replacement in 2 more years by the F-22 which will eat Su35's for breakfast.

Guys, the last point to make is about training. I don't care how capable an aircraft is, or how spiffy the pilots uniform is. If you can't put the dollars into training it will all be for naught. Anybody remember the Luftwaffe?
 

corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
WHO THE HELL SAID THE MIG 1.44 IS CANCELLED? GET UR BOOKS AND GET AN UPDATE! ITS STILL RUNNIN BUT SLOWLY CUZ OF LACK OF FUNDS.
 

Londo Molari

New Member
Re: Which Aircraft Should PAF opt for ????

it is cancelled... where does it say its still running? show me a link

http://www.aviationnow.com/content/ncof/ncf_n73.htm

Ilya Klebanov, Russia's industry, science and technology minister, said that on Apr. 26 the government's military-industrial commission made the decision to award Sukhoi the role of lead developerfor a fifth-generation fighter to succeed the Su-27 Flanker and MiG-29 Fulcrum. Klebanov added the MiG Corp. and the Yakovlev Design Bureau would participate in the program, known as the Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsyi (Prospective Aviation Complex for Frontal Aviation [PAK FA]).

Despite this, however, the decision is a serious blow for MiG, leaving it without a future fighter program. In the mid-1980s the company had defeated Sukhoi in winning the competition for a twin-engine heavy multi-role tactical fighter, the MFI (Mnogofunktionalniy Frontovoi Istribitel) program, intended to succeed the Flanker. MiG eventually flew the prototype, dubbed the Article 1.44, in April 2000, but the program proved unsustainable.
Basically Russia wanted a next generation fighter. The Su-47 was Sukhoi's technology demonstrator, and the Mig 1.44 was Mikoyan's technology demonstrator. The contract was awarded to Sukhoi won, and now the actual next generation aircraft PAK-FA is being made by Sukhoi (and Mikoyan) based on both the Su-47 and Mig 1.44.
 

Mehmood

New Member
JF-17 is the best option as it is a good aircraft and we are going to get it cheap and easy.After it, I think that J-10 is the best option as China is an ally and will give us the aircraft without any terms like the US.
 
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