Turkey to buy German tanks

[beleg]

500+ Leo2 is a threat against M-60s and Leo1s.. Why does Greece buy those tanks? Against Macedonia or Albania? Even your post is a hostile one suggesting military action against Turkey.. Get a life man..

 

[swerve]

500+ Leo2 is a threat against M-60s and Leo1s..

AFAIK, Greece is actually buying 350 Leopard 2, of which 183 are ex-Bundeswehr Leo 2A4, & 170 are new Leo 2HEL (Greek variant of A6).

 

[Waylander]

Not every ewapons purchase have to be because fo direct neighbours. We in germany are surrounded by friends and have a strong tank force (Not big anymore, but ok ).

 

[beleg]

I thought we had agreed to keep this thread free of politics and propaganda

@swerve
Yes thats the amount of tanks they have signed a deal on , however Greece is planning to acquire more Leo2s very soon accorging to their EMPAE.. Its not a signed deal sure but they want to replace their obsolete tanks with Leo2s. They do need 500+ Leo2s after all..

 

[Waylander]

Do they want to replace the remaining obsolete tanks with Leo IIA4 or with Leo IIHEL?

 

[beleg]

Last time i checked they were interested in buying more Leo2A4s from German surplus OR buying Leo2A6s from NL.

 

[beleg]

It is said in various Turkish forums (although not officially confirmed) that the first 6 (six) of the tanks are in Turkey being trialled. If the news are true, we will probably see them on the parade on 29-10-2006 Republic Day

 

[Waylander]

Do they have the same camo pattern?

 

[beleg]

Haven't seen them yet. As i said there is no official confirmation. Its just an insider information it seems.

 

[beleg]

The first 10 tanks of the 298 in deal have been shipped to Turkey on late july. They should be arriving anyday if they are not here already. Will post photos as soon as they appear.

 

[me109]

unfortunately you wont be able to see them on 29-10-2006 Republic Day.
(insider info)

 

[beleg]

More news on the issue ;
Actually 9 tanks were delivered with 1200 DM38 practice ammo, Another batch of 20 are being delivered this month with ~2500 DM63KE ammo [15.000 DM63KE and some DM38 were ordered to Rheinmetal for 46mio€ along with the Leo2A4s]. By the end of year another batch will arrive. Deliveries will be completed by mid 07.

The 300mio€ Leo2A4 deal includes 298 MBTs , maintenance ,spares , tools for maintenance and training for the personelle in Germany.

source: TD&A

 

[Waylander]

You are going to use DM63?
Than there have some modifications been done to your weapons system.
The Leo II is normally able to fire this ammo from A5 upwards because it needs stronger muzzle breaks, etc..

 

[swerve]

You are going to use DM63?
Than there have some modifications been done to your weapons system.
The Leo II is normally able to fire this ammo from A5 upwards because it needs stronger muzzle breaks, etc..

IIRC it's approved for wartime use in unmodified Leopard 2A4, but not peacetime.

 

[Waylander]

As long as I know using the DM53/63 in unmodified Leos is a very bad idea due to the stress this ammo causes to the normal gun system.

 

[beleg]

Isnt the DM63KE the version which doesnt cause extra stress on the barrel , thus increase its lifespan? We will probably see if there is any change in the tank after the they show up in press or in military parades.

 

[Waylander]

You wont see any modifications.
They are in the inside.

But you are right Rheinmetall says that the DM63 can be fired from A4 on. This is strange because they say the only difference between DM53 and DM63 is that DM63 has a Temperature Independent Propulsion System which makes it more stabile during temeprature and humidity changes.

Strange but ok.

 

[swerve]

As long as I know using the DM53/63 in unmodified Leos is a very bad idea due to the stress this ammo causes to the normal gun system.

Yes, but that stress is thought worth the advantage of the higher penetration when you're fighting for your life . . . But not for peacetime training, or when you're facing opposition which doesn't merit it. Acceptable risk varies with circumstances.

 

[Waylander]

Hopefully the stress is worth the decision and the breaks are not going to fly through the crew compartment while you fight for your life.
But in the end Rheinmetall says that it works with A4s so I believe them. They should knwo what they are talking about.

 

[PlasmaKrab]

I was also wondering about the DM63 rounds, since they are bound to be long-rod high-ratio thingies like the DM53, so more suited for the L55 gun.

Turns out that it is likely an improved version retrocompatible with the L44 guns (hint-hint, US tanks anyone?). Apparently Rheinmetall has been doing this quite puch lately, the 105mm DM63 also has the same penetration ratings as the DM53, but better tolerances.