The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[rsemmes]

Even if that were true, how is that different from any other war? Lend-Lease also changed the course and duration of the war against Germany. You said yourself that this is normal. "Like in every war". Yet somehow it only turns the supplier into the “real” opponent when Russia needs an excuse for poor battlefield performance.

Is your “we’re fighting NATO” fairy tale really easier to swallow than admitting that Ukraine, with outside help, has resisted Russia's poorly planned and executed invasion?

War is a business, that is normal.
I didn't say anything about poor performance, but about how long the show has been going on. Hoover just pointed out why the show was still going on in 2024... Well, all right, some fantasy about China giving Russia ∼$90bn for free.
I don't think Russia planned an invasion and a war, it planned a SMO; like the bunch of traitors who planned a coup d'etat in Spain in 1936. It was just as good as the US after-the-Iraq-war planning.
The real opponent is Ukraine... fighting with NATO weapons while NATO money keeps the country running.
No ex-Soviet army needs and excuse for bad performance, no army needs an excuse; not even the US army in Vietnam, Afghanistan or the 3rd battle of Fallujah. Sorry, was I pointing out at any bad performance or at keeping Ukraine "in the fight"? As we love repeating. Did the Robotine offensive failed because of Russian bad performance?
BTW, I still think that calling an offensive planned in a NATO HQ in a NATO country "NATO offensive" is fair, even if not completely accurate; everyone understood what offensive I was talking about without feeling outraged. I have mentioned the Kursk return ticket before, never the NATO return ticket.

What I still haven't been able to find is how Ukraine is going to "win". Well, not even Tisdall was able to swallow that and added the "or holding its own". Not in the battlefield, it seems that we all agree with that. Not with the economy, whatever is left of the 90bn plus another 70bn just to hold in 2027. Talking about Ukraine defeating Russia with missiles its just a joke... well, another one; and a sad joke for Ukraine.

Edit
Is the las paragraph, maybe, reality trumping fairy tales?
The pun was intended with the first Trump, I forgot to mention.

 

[swerve]

Russia invaded Ukraine with armies, not with small bands trying to launch a coup. Multiple columns of armoured vehicles & tens of thousands of soldiers crossed the border simultaneously at several points. Maybe 150,000 men were in the initial invasion force, with many more in reserve, & a few thousand tanks.

That's an invasion. No doubt about it.

It seems clear that they expected a quick & easy victory, just like Franco, Mola, Sanjurjo et al did in 1936, but it certainly wasn't a coup. They expected fighting - just not as much as they got. They didn't have hundreds of thousands of troops ready for nothing.

 

[deyhere]

Then Russia can take responsibility for its own decisions. Being pressured by the West does not establish that it had no choice but to invade Ukraine. If you think invasion was the right choice, defend that choice instead of blaming the West for Russia’s decision.

Russia does not regret invading Ukraine, they regret not invading earlier than they did, there's talk of upgrading the smo to an actual war and finishing the job.


And you think Russia is up there with the US and China? Really?


Russia may not be up there with the US and China but Russia is a big contributor and facilitator


And you still haven’t answered the question: would a change of government in France forces Germany invading it?


if the change of government was as a result of a Russian sponsored coup then anything can happen, we all see what happened in Romania

 

[rsemmes]

Russia invaded Ukraine with armies, not with small bands trying to launch a coup. Multiple columns of armoured vehicles & tens of thousands of soldiers crossed the border simultaneously at several points. Maybe 150,000 men were in the initial invasion force, with many more in reserve, & a few thousand tanks.

That's an invasion. No doubt about it.

It seems clear that they expected a quick & easy victory, just like Franco, Mola, Sanjurjo et al did in 1936, but it certainly wasn't a coup. They expected fighting - just not as much as they got. They didn't have hundreds of thousands of troops ready for nothing.

I agree... And I strongly disagree with your "small bands", that is all they had.
13m in Afghanistan, 44m in Ukraine, scale is important. Do armies plan and expect anything but victory?