The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[Redshift]

No.

When you pull the trigger, you decide to pull the trigger, you are responsible.
Following your excuse, not your logic, Ukraine is responsible for the entire chain of events, for whoever wants to say so.

So if you were beating the crap out of me with a spade and I punched you back then I am responsible for punching you in self defense?

I wouldn't have done it if you hadn't hit me with that spade.

Victim blaming seems to be very popular with some people.

 

[Feanor]

This is obvious nonsense. Ukraine launched drone strikes, as a response, on Russian tanks because they were in Ukraine and invading Ukraine and then Russia installed cages. Those cages are there because Russia invaded Ukraine and not because Ukraine attempted to stop them with drone strikes.

Cause and effect isn't just a pair of events isolated from everything else.

Ok, but how does it change the basic point that Russia acts in response to Ukrainian actions? It doesn't mean Ukrainian actions are some sort of ultimate cause. But it does mean that when Ukraine does something it can lead to a Russian response. You seem to be married to the idea of discussing purely the moral aspects of the conflict. But on a practical level understanding what Russia will do in response to Ukraine has value even if you don't see it. And your own response betrays the silliness. The cages weren't there because Russia invaded. They were there because Ukraine was using drones. If Ukraine wasn't using drones, the way they are, Russia wouldn't be using cages to protect their tanks. The drones are a choice. Ukraine could have opted (in theory) for some other means. If Ukraine made heavier use of landmines, we'd probably see far more mine clearing equipment.

Remember this is a military and defense forum. This thread isn't a referendum on "is Russia right" (an argument nobody here is making by the way). It's a thread about a war.