The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[vikingatespam]

The man just posted to both give respect and provide some Insite from the other side. Something anyone who considers the issue important should consider.

If the "insight" is nonsense, why should we avoid calling it such ? From the German perspective in 1941, should we have given their viewpoint any respect ? Wrong is wrong.

As for your posts about Ukraine never joining NATO well that's perspective. There was indeed much talk about it, there was also much NATO expansion into areas that Russia was told there would not be NATO expansion in. Again that point about perspective

Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says "No" | Brookings

Russian President Vladimir Putin has made it well known his antipathy towards NATO, claiming the Alliance took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. Steven Pifer argues that no such promises were...

www.brookings.edu

No, it isnt "perspective" at all. NATO bylaws prohibit a country joining that is in active conflict. Thanks to Putin and his instigated conflict, Ukraine couldnt join. Let not even consider Orban's inevitable veto of Ukraine joining. So, no there as no risk.

But hey, if the fear of NATO is so strong, what do you say about Sweden and Finland joining NATO ? Putin gives fuck-all about it, given his removing almost all troops from the Finnish border. Putin doesnt care about NATO, its a total smoke screen.

Countries join NATO out of fear of Russia. The fear is rational and backed up by historical precedence.

I would also note hits points about culture and how close this issue is to Russians (or at least a notable portion of Russians) to there shared history and culture is is something that has also been from the very beginning a point constantly and consistently made by the Russian government.

[looks at you funny]

Sure, the average Russian soldier cares so much about the shared history and culture of Ukraine, they feel free to rape, murder and pillage their way across Ukraine. Are the nightly cruise missile and drone attacks a symbol of love ? The average Russian cares SO MUCH about Ukraine, there is mass protest to stop the pointless war. Right ?

Russian government ? There is no Russian government, only Putin. His opponents have been Window Cancer-ed out of existence.

And there for a valid point weather you agree with it or not is almost moot as when it comes down to it these points are what the war is in large part about from the other side...personally I've always considered the real tradagy of this war to be the fact that two people who were in many ways brother are now at war and nomatervthe outcome this is likely to cause some degree of bad blood for generations

Only one of those two people (RU) is continuing the war. The other one just wants to exist (UKR). There is no moral equivalence here.

Thanks to Putin, Cold War 2 is upon us. [golf clap]

 

[Redshift]

Good evening everyone.

Being a long-time reader of this forum, I would like to thank Feanor for basic adequacy and honesty, as a person living in Russia. And also representatives of the Global South, for not following the Western narrative and preserving their own view on such complex relations between the West and Russia.

I want to note that the overwhelming majority of commentators who do not speak Russian and are forced to use English-language sources of information, as a rule, have an extremely distorted view of the processes taking place in the post-Soviet space.

The conflict in Ukraine is perceived extremely painfully within Russian society – not in the media, on forums, or Telegram, but in real communication. To put it roughly, every third person in Russia has relatives in Ukraine; for many it is a personal tragedy. Over three hundred years as part of Russia, a common culture, language, and religion (with the exception of Western Ukraine).

If we talk about the reasons for the conflict, it is a very complex question, but if we simplify it to the maximum, it is the complete and systematic ignoring by the West of Russia's national interests. The subsequent severing of economic ties with Ukraine and the possible formation of a military alliance against Russia (no matter with whom) – this is an existential threat, and here no international laws work anymore. By analogy with the Caribbean Crisis, just imagine Canada instead of Cuba.

If interested, as an example, you can watch the talk by the independent Russian journalist Vladimir Pozner already in the distant 2018 at Yale University:

P.S. I do not speak English well enough, so I’m using a translator.

Ireland was part of the UK for 121 years should the UK show it's love by invading Ireland? And then if they don't capitulate immediately launch daily missile strikes against Dublin until they do?

As Ukraine (mostly) clearly does not want to be part of Russia wouldn't you love for them let them go?

If NATO truly poses an existential threat to Russia
Then why are you wasting your time attacking a weak country who even if in NATO would barely even noticibly increase NATO power?

Before this NATO was weak, possibly close to dissolution but is now spending money that it doesn't want to.

The only real "threat" was to the spread of liberal values which make populations less easy to control once individuals see that they can be what they want to be and not what state tells them is acceptable, this was potentially a threat to the Russian "way of life".

 

[Aleks.ov]

What utter nonsense.

1) Ukraine was never going to join NATO - it could not, but NATOs own by-laws. Why dont you think about this: why do so many countries want to join NATO ? Could it be they are afraid of getting invaded by Russia ? I wonder why ? Ironically Putin has been the best advertisement for NATO membership. Thanks to Putin, Sweden and Finland joined.

2) Looks like Putin severed those economic ties with Ukraine, as well as with Europe. Go ahead and blame him in public, and see how well that works out for you.

3) NATO never invaded Russia. It never threatened to nuke Russia, like Russia likes to do. (Looking at you Medvedev). NATO was NEVER a threat to Russia. In early 2022, NATO was dying, with no real mission and ever shrinking military budgets (can Germany even field a single mech brigade ? I doubt it even now). NATO is just another excuse for paid trolls use to justify this utter shit-show of military incompetence. This is not 1941. No one is going to invade Russia.

4) Russia formented this crisis, plain and simple. This is all on Putin.

Your arguments demonstrate astonishing ignorance of history and context.

1. NATO was initially created to oppose the USSR. Its expansion in 1999 and 2004 occurred during the period of Russia's greatest economic weakness and maximum openness to democratic reforms. The bombing of Yugoslavia and the subsequent expansion of NATO were perceived as a deep insult. Russia's military budget over the past decades did not exceed the analogous budget of the United Kingdom.

2. You clearly do not know the history of the conflict. This concerns the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement (DCFTA) of 2012, the refusal to sign which led to the so-called "Maidan," in which high-ranking officials from the EU and the USA took direct part. This served as the primary driver for the sharp deterioration in relations. To understand this, imagine Chinese officials openly participating in anti-government protests in Canada in 2025 and the subsequent reaction of Trump.

3. Medvedev is an ordinary "Talking Head"; his statements are nothing more than a reflection of fairly extreme views within Russia, and believe me, his posts are still relatively diplomatic. The main threat to Russia is not Europe, but the USA as the key player in the military alliance. One of the strategic goals of the USA is the prevention of an economic union between Russia and Germany, as the leading economy of the EU, and the consolidation of cheap Russian resources and advanced European technologies.

4. Watch the video, it will be useful for you.

 

[Aleks.ov]

Ireland was part of the UK for 121 years should the UK show it's love by invading Ireland? And then if they don't capitulate immediately launch daily missile strikes against Dublin until they do?

As Ukraine (mostly) clearly does not want to be part of Russia wouldn't you love for them let them go?

If NATO truly poses an existential threat to Russia
Then why are you wasting your time attacking a weak country who even if in NATO would barely even noticibly increase NATO power?

Before this NATO was weak, possibly close to dissolution but is now spending money that it doesn't want to.

The only real "threat" was to the spread of liberal values which make populations less easy to control once individuals see that they can be what they want to be and not what state tells them is acceptable, this was potentially a threat to the Russian "way of life".

What is the point of this analogy with Ireland? Russia did not seek to annex Ukraine before 2014. The issue was, at a minimum, about neutrality and the prevention of an economic or military alliance.

The question is about Ukraine's independence, reduced to zero by external control after 2014. The protests and subsequent referendums in Crimea and Donbas, no matter how you feel about them, showed a different opinion.

The threat is not in Ukraine's current strength, but in the prospect of NATO infrastructure deployment. Under the Minsk Agreements, Ukraine was supposed to become a buffer, but they were deliberately sabotaged.

NATO was never weak; the military budget of the USA, as the key player, has always been colossal.

The threat was geopolitical (a bridgehead against Russia). "Liberal values" do not prevent the USA or the EU from supporting Saudi monarchs and other so-called regimes.

 

[rsemmes]

I have to say vikingatespam, you posted something funny. Was Iran about to invade US?

 

[rsemmes]

Ireland was part of the UK for 121 years should the UK show it's love by invading Ireland? And then if they don't capitulate immediately launch daily missile strikes against Dublin until they do?

Ireland was invaded and there still are forces of occupation.
As soon as a paper is sign, with those forces still present, Konstiantinivka will be as British as Derry is Russian.

 

[Redshift]

Ireland was invaded and there still are forces of occupation.
As soon as a paper is sign, with those forces still present, Konstiantinivka will be as British as Derry is Russian.

So you are against taking possession by force, so long as it's not Russia doing the taking gotcha!

 

[Redshift]

What is the point of this analogy with Ireland? Russia did not seek to annex Ukraine before 2014. The issue was, at a minimum, about neutrality and the prevention of an economic or military alliance.

The question is about Ukraine's independence, reduced to zero by external control after 2014. The protests and subsequent referendums in Crimea and Donbas, no matter how you feel about them, showed a different opinion.

The threat is not in Ukraine's current strength, but in the prospect of NATO infrastructure deployment. Under the Minsk Agreements, Ukraine was supposed to become a buffer, but they were deliberately sabotaged.

NATO was never weak; the military budget of the USA, as the key player, has always been colossal.

The threat was geopolitical (a bridgehead against Russia). "Liberal values" do not prevent the USA or the EU from supporting Saudi monarchs and other so-called regimes.

NATO was and is no threat to Russia whether weak or strong.

 

[Redshift]

Your arguments demonstrate astonishing ignorance of history and context.

1. NATO was initially created to oppose the USSR. Its expansion in 1999 and 2004 occurred during the period of Russia's greatest economic weakness and maximum openness to democratic reforms. The bombing of Yugoslavia and the subsequent expansion of NATO were perceived as a deep insult. Russia's military budget over the past decades did not exceed the analogous budget of the United Kingdom.

2. You clearly do not know the history of the conflict. This concerns the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement (DCFTA) of 2012, the refusal to sign which led to the so-called "Maidan," in which high-ranking officials from the EU and the USA took direct part. This served as the primary driver for the sharp deterioration in relations. To understand this, imagine Chinese officials openly participating in anti-government protests in Canada in 2025 and the subsequent reaction of Trump.

3. Medvedev is an ordinary "Talking Head"; his statements are nothing more than a reflection of fairly extreme views within Russia, and believe me, his posts are still relatively diplomatic. The main threat to Russia is not Europe, but the USA as the key player in the military alliance. One of the strategic goals of the USA is the prevention of an economic union between Russia and Germany, as the leading economy of the EU, and the consolidation of cheap Russian resources and advanced European technologies.

4. Watch the video, it will be useful for you.

You will get no more engagement frome so post away.

 

[rsemmes]

NATO was and is no threat to Russia whether weak or strong.

Based on your fortune-telling?
It is not if it is a threat, but if Russia considers it a threat (following your line). Is Iran a threat to US? US is a threat to Iran, we have seen that.

Or...
You are saying that you are against Russia but not against UK when both do the same. We agree, those are our principles. Our own western democracies' high horse.

 

[Redshift]

Based on your fortune-telling?
It is not if it is a threat, but if Russia considers it a threat (following your line). Is Iran a threat to US? US is a threat to Iran, we have seen that.

Or...
You are saying that you are against Russia but not against UK when both do the same. We agree, those are our principles. Our own western democracies' high horse.

Oh hello you again, once more presenting opinions without evidence good man do keep it up, just keep asserting things and I'm sure it must all be true.

 

[Redshift]

Oh hello you again, once more presenting opinions without evidence good man do keep it up, just keep asserting things and I'm sure it must all be true.

Just for the record I will no longer respond to you as I think that enough is enough.