KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
A bit more context into the F-16 crash:
A Russian missile exploded near the F-16 shortly before it disappeared off the radar, a U.S. official said, leading to one theory that the explosion either damaged the aircraft or led the pilot to maneuver too low to the ground, contributing to the crash, according to the U.S. official. While Ukraine is leading the investigation, U.S. advisers based in other parts of Europe are advising, defense officials said.
I wonder how Ukraine is leading the investigation if they have very little knowledge of these airframes.
A little more from the article:
A fatal crash of a Ukrainian F-16 on the first day the jet fighters were used in combat last week has raised questions about the rush to train pilots and deploy them into combat only weeks after they had arrived in Ukraine, according to U.S. and Western officials.
Ukraine’s air force still hasn’t determined the cause of the crash, which occurred during what Kyiv later described as the largest Russian missile and drone barrage of the war. U.S. officials say Ukraine has yet to find evidence the jet was shot down, either by friendly or enemy fire, or that a mechanical failure led to the crash.[…]
Western pilots, even after completing their training, often fly for many months with their units and in exercises before attempting complex missions in combat zones. The Ukrainian pilots, on the other hand, went quickly from training to the battlefield.
Now, Western officials are debating the wisdom of Ukraine’s decision to deploy the new jets in combat just weeks after they first arrived in the country, and sending up pilots who had limited flying hours on the advanced American jet.[…]
The pilot who died, Oleksiy Mes, was one of a small group of Ukrainians to begin training on the F-16 in Denmark in August 2023. A few months later, another cadre started training under the U.S. Air National Guard pilots at Morris Air National Guard Base, Ariz. The first pilots to graduate from those programs finished up their training in Europe before arriving in Ukraine this summer along with the jets.
Before the crash, representatives from the Danish government had expressed concern about the ability of some of the pilots to fly solo, the senior defense official said.
The Ukrainian pilots had years of combat experience in their older Soviet jets, but some struggled to learn how to operate the advanced F-16—particularly because the training manuals were in English and not all of the pilots had sufficient English language skills. Some pilots who began the course in Denmark failed the program, a Western official said.
Mes, known as Moonfish, wasn’t one of the pilots that sparked concern. He was among the small cadre of pilots who completed an accelerated training course at the Danish military air base in Skrydstrup that was tailored to the scenarios they would face on the battlefield. The pilots focused on air defense, rather than learning all of the missions the multirole aircraft is capable of performing, according to a senior U.S. official.[…]
Today, a small number of Ukrainian pilots are still going through the training programs in Arizona, Denmark and a newly opened facility in Romania. The Danish facility will shutter at the end of the year as the Danish Air Force transitions from the F-16 to the new F-35.
Ukrainian and Western officials have declined to provide exact numbers, but they acknowledge that it will be months before Ukraine has enough trained pilots to fly a full squadron of F-16s.
I am assuming the actual number of pilots that were previously reported to have been training in various countries is even less due to some of them failing the program. Is that a fair assumption?
Iran has sent short range ballistic missiles to Russia, according to the US officials:
A U.S. official confirmed the missiles 'have finally been delivered'[…]
The shipment involves a couple of hundred short-range ballistic missiles, according to Western officials. Iran has a variety of such weapons, with a range stretching up to around 500 miles.[…]
'This is not the end,' a senior European official said, noting that Iran is expected to keep weapons flowing into Russia
Edit: In the meantime,
But, questioned by reporters, the Pentagon chief pushed back on the idea that allowing deep strikes inside Russia with Western weapons would be a game-changer.
He said Russia had already moved aircraft that launch glide bombs into Ukraine beyond the range of U.S.-supplied ATACM missiles.
"There's no one capability that will in and of itself be decisive in this campaign," Austin told reporters at the end of the meeting.
He also said Ukraine had capabilities of its own - such as drones - to hit targets inside Russia that were beyond the reach of ATACM and British-supplied Storm Shadow missiles.
"There are a lot of targets in Russia - big country, obviously," Austin said. "And there's a lot of capability that Ukraine has in terms of UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) and other things to address those targets."
A Russian missile exploded near the F-16 shortly before it disappeared off the radar, a U.S. official said, leading to one theory that the explosion either damaged the aircraft or led the pilot to maneuver too low to the ground, contributing to the crash, according to the U.S. official. While Ukraine is leading the investigation, U.S. advisers based in other parts of Europe are advising, defense officials said.
I wonder how Ukraine is leading the investigation if they have very little knowledge of these airframes.
A little more from the article:
A fatal crash of a Ukrainian F-16 on the first day the jet fighters were used in combat last week has raised questions about the rush to train pilots and deploy them into combat only weeks after they had arrived in Ukraine, according to U.S. and Western officials.
Ukraine’s air force still hasn’t determined the cause of the crash, which occurred during what Kyiv later described as the largest Russian missile and drone barrage of the war. U.S. officials say Ukraine has yet to find evidence the jet was shot down, either by friendly or enemy fire, or that a mechanical failure led to the crash.[…]
Western pilots, even after completing their training, often fly for many months with their units and in exercises before attempting complex missions in combat zones. The Ukrainian pilots, on the other hand, went quickly from training to the battlefield.
Now, Western officials are debating the wisdom of Ukraine’s decision to deploy the new jets in combat just weeks after they first arrived in the country, and sending up pilots who had limited flying hours on the advanced American jet.[…]
The pilot who died, Oleksiy Mes, was one of a small group of Ukrainians to begin training on the F-16 in Denmark in August 2023. A few months later, another cadre started training under the U.S. Air National Guard pilots at Morris Air National Guard Base, Ariz. The first pilots to graduate from those programs finished up their training in Europe before arriving in Ukraine this summer along with the jets.
Before the crash, representatives from the Danish government had expressed concern about the ability of some of the pilots to fly solo, the senior defense official said.
The Ukrainian pilots had years of combat experience in their older Soviet jets, but some struggled to learn how to operate the advanced F-16—particularly because the training manuals were in English and not all of the pilots had sufficient English language skills. Some pilots who began the course in Denmark failed the program, a Western official said.
Mes, known as Moonfish, wasn’t one of the pilots that sparked concern. He was among the small cadre of pilots who completed an accelerated training course at the Danish military air base in Skrydstrup that was tailored to the scenarios they would face on the battlefield. The pilots focused on air defense, rather than learning all of the missions the multirole aircraft is capable of performing, according to a senior U.S. official.[…]
Today, a small number of Ukrainian pilots are still going through the training programs in Arizona, Denmark and a newly opened facility in Romania. The Danish facility will shutter at the end of the year as the Danish Air Force transitions from the F-16 to the new F-35.
Ukrainian and Western officials have declined to provide exact numbers, but they acknowledge that it will be months before Ukraine has enough trained pilots to fly a full squadron of F-16s.
I am assuming the actual number of pilots that were previously reported to have been training in various countries is even less due to some of them failing the program. Is that a fair assumption?
Iran has sent short range ballistic missiles to Russia, according to the US officials:
A U.S. official confirmed the missiles 'have finally been delivered'[…]
The shipment involves a couple of hundred short-range ballistic missiles, according to Western officials. Iran has a variety of such weapons, with a range stretching up to around 500 miles.[…]
'This is not the end,' a senior European official said, noting that Iran is expected to keep weapons flowing into Russia
Edit: In the meantime,
But, questioned by reporters, the Pentagon chief pushed back on the idea that allowing deep strikes inside Russia with Western weapons would be a game-changer.
He said Russia had already moved aircraft that launch glide bombs into Ukraine beyond the range of U.S.-supplied ATACM missiles.
"There's no one capability that will in and of itself be decisive in this campaign," Austin told reporters at the end of the meeting.
He also said Ukraine had capabilities of its own - such as drones - to hit targets inside Russia that were beyond the reach of ATACM and British-supplied Storm Shadow missiles.
"There are a lot of targets in Russia - big country, obviously," Austin said. "And there's a lot of capability that Ukraine has in terms of UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) and other things to address those targets."
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