The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

Does Ukraine have any missiles that can strike Russian Territory and if so why don't they use them?

Also I am amazed at the freedom Russian Tanks apparently have to move around Ukraine. Ukraine has been gifted thousands of Javelin missiles, I would have expected they would have had Soldiers lying in wait hidden by the sides of all roads coming into Ukraine ready to ambush the Tanks. Why on Earth haven't they done this? With that amount of Missiles available it should almost be a Turkey Shoot picking off the tanks. Or are the missiles failing to penetrate the Armour?
 

OPSSG

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Post 2 of 3: Reactions to Russia’s ongoing escalation towards Ukraine

Nord Stream 2 is completed, all it needs is the final certification, I guess sometime next year once this is all blown over it will be certified and turned on. It runs parallel to the existing Nord Stream pipeline.
7. I suspect pro-Russian voices in Europe/Germany are not going to continue with business as usual, with a Russian invasion ongoing. The last thing the Germans should do is increase funding for the Russian economy by approving Nord Stream 2.

Full on combat has broken out. There are reports of Russian amphibious landings, and missile strikes against targets around Kharkov, Kiev, Mariupol' and other cities… I'll do another post in 3-4 hours when more info rolls in.
8. Thank you for the updates, and as Team Biden has explained this is the opening phase of a Russian campaign in Ukraine and I do pray for the safety of civilians caught in the fighting.

Also I am amazed at the freedom Russian Tanks apparently have to move around Ukraine. Ukraine has been gifted thousands of Javelin missiles, I would have expected they would have had Soldiers lying in wait hidden by the sides of all roads coming into Ukraine ready to ambush the Tanks. Why on Earth haven't they done this? With that amount of Missiles available it should almost be a Turkey Shoot picking off the tanks. Or are the missiles failing to penetrate the Armour?
9. The invasion routes are expected, but I'm a little surprised about the way the Russian military is executing the plan. The big fights are yet to come — it is tactically correct for the Ukrainian Army to fight hardest when the Russians are stretched in their combat logistics.
(a) This is similar to Finland’s doctrine — their war plans are mature and their population understands this.​
(b) As a former infantry man, I was trained in anti-armour operations in my youth — ATGM teams do better, when they fire and hide in restricted terrain. Trained ATGM teams are very valuable in day 30 to day 100 of the war — you do not waste them in the first few days by sending them on suicide missions.​

10. The Russian forces advance on 3 main axis of movements and they will meet restricted terrain (aka larger urban centres), soon.
 
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denix56

Active Member
Does Ukraine have any missiles that can strike Russian Territory and if so why don't they use them?

Also I am amazed at the freedom Russian Tanks apparently have to move around Ukraine. Ukraine has been gifted thousands of Javelin missiles, I would have expected they would have had Soldiers lying in wait hidden by the sides of all roads coming into Ukraine ready to ambush the Tanks. Why on Earth haven't they done this? With that amount of Missiles available it should almost be a Turkey Shoot picking off the tanks. Or are the missiles failing to penetrate the Armour?
I think it is not that simple. More than 30 tanks were destroyed, but probably there is no need to risk soldier lives to destroy more, as the enemy retreat after shooting several of them.
 

denix56

Active Member
10. The Russian forces advance on 3 main axis of movements and they will meet restricted terrain (aka larger urban centres), soon.
They had fighting Sumy today and had to retreat. It seems armor did not help a lot and infantry had to fight army and territorial defence forces.
 

OPSSG

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Helping others to understand to unfolding campaign

CNN reports that American officials believe Russia has been facing greater resistance from Ukrainian forces than anticipated. American officials did not say whether Kyiv would fall—still too early to say how it will play out. It appears direct attacks on Kyiv are beginning and more skirmishes in Ukraine are expected.

…as the enemy retreat after shooting several of them.
I think you don’t understand what is a probing attack, as part of armoured reconnaissance. The mission of armoured reconnaissance is to gather intelligence about the disposition of Ukrainian forces — so that the larger advancing Russian task group can encircle and destroy them.

I expect the Russians to conduct a quick battle procedure (based on strength of Ukrainian resistance) as they advance in a movement to contact battle. The Russians are advancing deliberately on 3 main axis of movements and they plan to meet resistance — at which time, Russian forces escalate and use more force against the Ukrainian military.
 
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hauritz

Well-Known Member
I expect much is happening that we are not aware of. I wonder how much intelligence is being shared with the Ukrainian forces by the west as to the disposition and movement of the Russian forces.

Are Russian communications being intercepted and jammed?

Will the Russians find themselves being subjected to cyber attacks?

There are so many grey areas that the US and its allies could operate in that fall short of actual war but could totally disrupt Russian operations.
 

denix56

Active Member
I think you don’t understand what is a probing attack, as part of armoured reconnaissance. The mission of armoured reconnaissance is to gather intelligence about the disposition of Ukrainian forces — so that the larger advancing Russian task group can encircle and destroy them.

I expect the Russians to conduct a quick battle procedure (based on strength of Ukrainian resistance) as they advance in a movement to contact battle. The Russians are advancing deliberately on 3 main axis of movements and they plan to meet resistance — at which time, Russian forces escalate and use more force against the Ukrainian military.
Yes, I am quite newbie at all these things and I am grateful for your info!


What are you guys thinking about outcomes of this war here? In short and long term (how it will affect the world) as the things stand now.
 

Feanor

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I think it is not that simple. More than 30 tanks were destroyed, but probably there is no need to risk soldier lives to destroy more, as the enemy retreat after shooting several of them.
Is there any evidence of 30 destroyed tanks? There are mountains of footage coming out, but the only destroyed tanks I've seen so far are pretty clearly Ukrainian T-64s.

EDIT: Oryx blog confirms the same 1 lost T-80. 30 sounds like fantasy.

 
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denix56

Active Member
Is there any evidence of 30 destroyed tanks? There are mountains of footage coming out, but the only destroyed tanks I've seen so far are pretty clearly Ukrainian T-64s.
I took info from offcial channel of Ukrainian Army, that is actually the only source that provided some estimations.
I have actually did not see the photos of any tanks destroyed (any side), only BMPS and other stuff. Moreover, all the videos where the destruction of tanks with Bayraktar (that I whatched earlier) were removed from youtube.
I think we will not be able to see now the full scale of what is going on there as it will probably give out some valuable info.


Btw, there is several stratotankers (at least 4) flying near Ukrainian borders now accroding to flightradar. And Global Hawk circling in Black Sea.

I apologize if I provide some info that you would consider untrusted and would be glad if you point at it.
 

Steinmetz

Active Member
I took info from offcial channel of Ukrainian Army, that is actually the only source that provided some estimations.
I have actually did not see the photos of any tanks destroyed (any side), only BMPS and other stuff. Moreover, all the videos where the destruction of tanks with Bayraktar (that I whatched earlier) were removed from youtube.
I think we will not be able to see now the full scale of what is going on there as it will probably give out some valuable info.


Btw, there is several stratotankers (at least 4) flying near Ukrainian borders now accroding to flightradar. And Global Hawk circling in Black Sea.

I apologize if I provide some info that you would consider untrusted and would be glad if you point at it.
I sympathize with the Ukrainians, truly. I understand why they put out that information, I know what you're talking about. But they've been putting out false news all day, that quickly becomes unsubstantiated. We're starting to see the fog of war lighten, I'll have an update myself shortly.

I will post this:

Convoy of UA IL-76's departed Lyviv to Poland.

 
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Feanor

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I took info from offcial channel of Ukrainian Army, that is actually the only source that provided some estimations.
I have actually did not see the photos of any tanks destroyed (any side), only BMPS and other stuff. Moreover, all the videos where the destruction of tanks with Bayraktar (that I whatched earlier) were removed from youtube.
I think we will not be able to see now the full scale of what is going on there as it will probably give out some valuable info.


Btw, there is several stratotankers (at least 4) flying near Ukrainian borders now accroding to flightradar. And Global Hawk circling in Black Sea.

I apologize if I provide some info that you would consider untrusted and would be glad if you point at it.
I would regard the official reports on casualties and operations from both sides unreliable until the war is over and better info become available. I recall in the '14-'15 war Avakov (then head of MVD) made official claims about large numbers of destroyed Russian and separatist tanks that were blatant bs. 30 destroyed tanks is a lot. We have evidence of exactly 1 from the Russian side. That discrepancy is profound, especially when you consider the volume of footage available.

Even lostarmour has nothing on that scale. I might believe that Ukraine has lost 30 tanks total, destroyed and captured. Though even that number seems large. At least with Ukraine we've seen entire troop columns get hit hard.


Thanks for sharing the Bayraktar footage, let's see what confirmation we can get. It will also be interesting to see what comes out of Sumy. There was heavy fighting there and parts of the town caught fire, but so far we don't have good post-battle footage.
 

denix56

Active Member
There are multiple reports on something was destroyed over Kyiv, either a missile (more likely) or a drone. Some suggest that 2 Russian ballistic missiles were destroyed. But it could be anything (plane or other missile type).
1645756195975.png
 
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denix56

Active Member
By the way, are there a chance that the West will convict Putin for war crimes (even without any consequences for him)? What are the criteria for it? Can the ballistic missile strike on civillians be enough for it?
 

Feanor

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By the way, are there a chance that the West will convict Putin for war crimes (even without any consequences for him)? What are the criteria for it? Can the ballistic missile strike on civillians be enough for it?
Unlikely though not impossible It depends on what happens next. Generally waging an illegal war by itself doesn't qualify as a war crime. You had to do some pretty bad stuff during the war. I also don't see any signs of intentional murder of civilians with ballistic missiles. Not to mention that it doesn't make much sense in this context. If you look at the kinds of national leaders that have gotten convicted of warcrimes, you pretty much have ethnic cleansing, genocide, or an extremely dirty and bloody war. Far worse then anything we've seen here so far. Far worse then anything we can reasonably expect to see. If prior precedent is any indication, I wouldn't count on it. Though the world is changing, so who knows.
 

denix56

Active Member
Unlikely though not impossible It depends on what happens next. Generally waging an illegal war by itself doesn't qualify as a war crime. You had to do some pretty bad stuff during the war. I also don't see any signs of intentional murder of civilians with ballistic missiles. Not to mention that it doesn't make much sense in this context. If you look at the kinds of national leaders that have gotten convicted of warcrimes, you pretty much have ethnic cleansing, genocide, or an extremely dirty and bloody war. Far worse then anything we've seen here so far. Far worse then anything we can reasonably expect to see. If prior precedent is any indication, I wouldn't count on it. Though the world is changing, so who knows.
I assume that some of missiles might go away of course causing severe civilian casualties or when war starts on the streets of big cities.
 
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Steinmetz

Active Member
Some first info about what the symbols mean exactly.
Line - Crimea
Triangle - Sloviansk, Cramatorsk
Z - Charkiv. They say that RosGvardia was spotted there too.
Circle - reserve
I'd hold off Ukrainian sources for the most part ATM. I just saw where they claimed 800 BMP was destroyed. We'll know more at dawn.

Something indeed was shot down over Kiev, I'm leaning towards a plane. But what is it? I have no idea.
Информация пока противоречивая: изначально.. | Военный Осведомитель | VK
 

OPSSG

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Post 3 of 3: Reactions to Russia’s ongoing escalation towards Ukraine

11. I do not believe in handing out weapons to civilians without the requirement for proper military training (at least 9 weeks of basic training) — let’s see if Ukraine can keep fighting longer than 30 days. When I see photos of elderly Ukrainian men or women taking up arms, it does not present to me as credible. My son is an infantry officer (who completed 22 months of National Service), who went to OCS for 38 weeks after 9 weeks of BMT. He has up to 40 days of reserve service obligations each year, and is currently studying in a local university. Some years ago, there was a feature story of a Ukrainian who completed the same 38 week OCS and took up Singapore citizenship.

12. Unlike the stance taken by Vietnam’s MOFA, there are several similarities Singaporeans share with Ukrainians. One is a desire for peaceful co-existence with others despite differences. Two, we are similarity independent, and resilient. This is a streak Singaporeans share with Ukrainians — which is why Singapore’s MFA put out a strong statement in support of Ukraine. Likewise, Indonesia has issued a weaker statement of support for Ukraine too. But I note that both Malaysia and Indonesia do not condemn Russian aggression directly. Nor will they impose sanctions on Russia.

13. Moldova has announced it was closing its airspace because of the war in neighboring Ukraine, shortly after President Maia Sandu said Chisinau would introduce a state of emergency and was ready to accept tens of thousands of people fleeing Ukraine after the Russian attack.

14. China's embassy in Kyiv told its citizens in Ukraine to stay home or at least take the precaution of displaying a Chinese flag on their vehicles. In unconfirmed latest news, China’s embassy in Ukraine said China was preparing to evacuate the some 6,000 Chinese nationals in Ukraine by chartered flights in batches.

By the way, are there a chance that the West will convict Putin for war crimes (even without any consequences for him)?
15. Very low chance of convicting Putin of war crimes, as Russia is a permanent member of the UNSC. In a 2015 lecture, Singapore’s Ambassador-at-large Tommy Koh said that while Singapore believes international law is a “sword and shield” for protecting and advancing our interests, this is not based on blind faith. As a Singaporean, I think that Taiwan made a mistake by shortening National Service a few years ago without substantial investments in defence. Thanks to this policy change, Taiwanese Army units are chronically short of staff and troops.
(a) In words that are remarkably prescient, Prof. Tommy Koh said: “We know that the international rule of law is weak and cannot deter an aggressive big power, such as Russia, from using its superior military force to secure its strategic objectives. We accept the reality that when there is a collision between law and military power, the latter usually prevails. At least, in the short-term.”​
(b) That being the case, Prof Koh went on to add, Singapore’s first principle in foreign policy is to continue to be strong, economically and militarily, to defend our interests. Singapore's defence minister Dr. Ng Eng Hen also said it was hard to "reconcile the aggression" by Russia after it attacked Ukraine, signalling an end” to years of relative peace. Sharing on Facebook on 24 Feb 2022, Ng said that cities within Ukraine had turned into "war zones" overnight.​
(c) Though rare, one hears arguments that Singapore should rethink the length of National Service (22 months) — most Singaporeans agree that Taiwan made a mistake by shortening National Service to 4 months. As Mr Putin has shown this week, such sentiments can be dangerous. Military power will continue to to be used by the strong to attain political goals. Conventional military power is not a thing of the past.​
 
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