The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[Capt. Ironpants]

Those big missiles lined up on the deck must make these ships very vulnerable to just about any sort of attack. The Ukrainians had claimed some hours earlier to have hit it with Neptune missiles and damaged it. Telegram: Contact @novaya_europe Alleged translation -

'The head of the Odessa region administration Maxim Marchenko said in a telegram channel that the Russian cruiser was hit by Neptune missiles. According to Marchenko, "Moscow" suffered "very serious damage."

Adviser to the head of the office of the President of Ukraine Alexei Arestovich said that a fire broke out on the cruiser. He said there were 510 people on board.

Both Arestovich and Marchenko clarified that the cruiser "Moscow" participated in the capture of the island of Snake. According to them, the Ukrainian border guards told the crew of this particular cruiser: "Russian warship, go *****".

About the cruiser "Moscow"

This is a missile cruiser, which became the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, the main ship of the 1164 project "Atlant". It was built in Nikolaev and launched in 1979, it is said on the website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. RIA Novosti in 2020 wrote that the crew of "Moscow" is 500 people. '

What will be revealed as the truth, when the fog of war lifts?

This article gives more details about the Neptun system the Ukrainians claim to have used to strike the Moskva. If true they struck it, it's quite something they pulled it off.

One Of Russia’s Biggest Cruisers Has Sunk Off Ukraine

Ukraine claimed Wednesday a navy missile battery struck the Moskva, the flagship of Russia's Black Sea fleet, off the coast of Odessa. On Thursday, the Russian government said the warship had sunk.

www.forbes.com

The author is also of the opinion Russia's Black Sea fleet will be more vulnerable to Ukrainian attack without the Moskva.

 

[Stuart M]

If so, that's the largest naval ship lost in combat since WW2...

Belgrano, sunk 1982, tops a Slava class I think, but the significance of it is the relative modernity of it and the radar and SAM systems on it. What went wrong with the ships systems that this has happened and what does this say about other Russian systems, training and procedures?

 

[Pentaprism]

Sheesh, wouldn't like to be Admiral Yevmenov who I assume is the Guy responsible for the safety of their Fleet.

I believe this Ship was defended by an S-300F and it apparently didn't work. Amazing.

 

[vonnoobie]

Makes me wonder why it wasn't done sooner if accurate. Was Ukraine holding back in hopes of a peace deal (shooting up tanks, aircraft etc can take far more casualties but to the public they are nothing, taking out a warship, the flagship for the region even is a very big target that is very noticeable and can either make people's will to fight harder or destroy it) or was the system not fully active and only just been able to get working?
In either event then it could seriously limit the Russian fleets freedom of movement in blockading Odessa.

 

[T.C.P]

If this really was the work of a Ukrainain missile, then Russia should just disband its military. Pathetic. Cant even protect their Flagship in the region from a nation without a navy, a nation whose entire military production is gone. An embarassment.

The Russians are apparently claiming that it was onboard fire, that caused damage. The ship was not sunk, Russians just decided to convert into a brand new submarine.....

 

[CJR]

If this really was the work of a Ukrainain missile, then Russia should just disband its miitary. Pathetic. Cant even protect their Flagship in the region from a nation without a navy, a nation whose entire military production is gone. An embarassment.

The Russians are apparently claiming that it was onboard fire, that caused damage. The ship was not sunk, Russians just decided to convert into a brand new submarine.....

Eh, the bolded is more if a Ukrainian missile wasn't "wot dun it". The alternatives to how you set a cruiser afire are either massive cock-up with ammo storage/general maintenance or some form of "friendly fire" (say, steaming into a Russian minefield...).

 

[hauritz]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514185460305825794

Now Sweden will apply for NATO membership as Finland opens debate

The assault on Ukraine sparked a dramatic U-turn in public and political opinion in Finland and neighbouring Sweden regarding their long-held policies of military non-alignment.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This is happening faster than I thought it would. Now what does Putin do? He started a war to keep NATO away from Russian borders (among may other supposed reasons) Now he is going to have 2 additional members of NATO on his border. The list of things that Putin miscalculated is getting longer and longer, Hard to call his decision anything other than a complete disaster.

I am not sure what the process for joining NATO is but I would hope that it is streamlined. Ideally just a press release to say Sweden and Finland are now members of NATO. Can't afford to go through the nonsense of several months or years of negotiation and debate. Do all that in secret behind closed doors and act before the Russians know what is happening.

If they had done that with the Ukraine there probably wouldn't be a war now.

 

[T.C.P]

Eh, the bolded is more if a Ukrainian missile wasn't "wot dun it". The alternatives to how you set a cruiser afire are either massive cock-up with ammo storage/general maintenance or some form of "friendly fire" (say, steaming into a Russian minefield...).

Ah Igor just forgot to put out his cigarette before throwing it down a missile hatch. Just normal Wednesday things.

 

[hauritz]

Latest report is that they have abandoned ship so if it isn't sunk it won't be salvageable. Incredible effort by the Ukrainians. I never realised their ISR was so good.

 

[cdxbow]

Latest report is that they have abandoned ship so if it isn't sunk it won't be salvageable. Incredible effort by the Ukrainians. I never realised their ISR was so good.

Perhaps it was friends. I saw this on a USN forum
'The Moskva has been confirmed to be sunk by Russian news, who claimed it was due to a fire on board. Investigations are continuing to find the source of the fire. Not far away, at the time the ship sank, an E3 Sentry was flying circles on the border of the Black Sea. Some Ukraine sources claim the Russian cruiser was struck by two Neptun missiles--which are domestically produced. Intercepted Russian communications said that the Ukrainians had distracted the air defense systems by flying a probing aircraft in the area, while the missiles slipped through the AD net at sea skimming altitudes.

While some Ukraine sources claimed it was their doing, 'official' sources may choose not to take credit, as in the Belgorad fuel tank destruction. Plausible deniability and ambiguity make it difficult for Russian propaganda to fire up their public, and to serve as a justification for escalation, or further conscription."

 

[hauritz]

I am sure they had plenty of help. It must be near impossible for the Russians to gain any tactical advantage with all the eyes in the sky that the US and its allies have in that region. Just think about it. P-8s and Tritons could be flying orbits around the Black Sea fleet. Possibly a couple of Growlers as well. Not a lot the Russians could do about it if those aircraft kept a reasonable distance.

All the Ukrainians basically need to do is launch a missile. Just like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[ADMk2]

I am sure they had plenty of help. It must be near impossible for the Russians to gain any tactical advantage with all the eyes in the sky that the US and its allies have in that region. Just think about it. P-8s and Tritons could be flying orbits around the Black Sea fleet. Possibly a couple of Growlers as well. Not a lot the Russians could do about it if those aircraft kept a reasonable distance.

All the Ukrainians basically need to do is launch a missile. Just like shooting fish in a barrel.

Who woulda thought a ‘slow’ (subsonic) non-low observable anti-ship missile system could be so lethal? Not some Australian defence observers that is for sure…

(Caveat - if that is what occurred, of course…)

 

[John Newman]

Russia and Ukraine playing Battleships

 

[John Newman]

And

 

[Feanor]

Perhaps it was friends. I saw this on a USN forum
'The Moskva has been confirmed to be sunk by Russian news, who claimed it was due to a fire on board. Investigations are continuing to find the source of the fire. Not far away, at the time the ship sank, an E3 Sentry was flying circles on the border of the Black Sea. Some Ukraine sources claim the Russian cruiser was struck by two Neptun missiles--which are domestically produced. Intercepted Russian communications said that the Ukrainians had distracted the air defense systems by flying a probing aircraft in the area, while the missiles slipped through the AD net at sea skimming altitudes.

While some Ukraine sources claimed it was their doing, 'official' sources may choose not to take credit, as in the Belgorad fuel tank destruction. Plausible deniability and ambiguity make it difficult for Russian propaganda to fire up their public, and to serve as a justification for escalation, or further conscription."

US aid may help, but it may also have been Ukrainian Bayraktars. Some were specifically purchased for the Ukrainian navy, and there was a Russian report of a 11356 report shooting one down over the Black Sea. The reports I'm seeing also say it sank after munitions cooked off, and the crew evacuated.

 

[T.C.P]

US aid may help, but it may also have been Ukrainian Bayraktars. Some were specifically purchased for the Ukrainian navy, and there was a Russian report of a 11356 report shooting one down over the Black Sea. The reports I'm seeing also say it sank after munitions cooked off, and the crew evacuated.

SO they used one to distract the ship and one to sink it? If that is the case, Turkey is about to fix their economic woes on TB-2 sales alone.

 

[Redlands18]

Actually saw this comment elsewhere from a poster called MarkOfZero
The Moskva has been converted to a Sea Reef in order to improve the Habitat of the local Fish, and this accords with Putin's passion for environmentalism. This is all according to plan.

 

[T.C.P]

Actually saw this comment elsewhere from a poster called MarkOfZero
The Moskva has been converted to a Sea Reef in order to improve the Habitat of the local Fish, and this accords with Putin's passion for environmentalism. This is all according to plan.

We all got Putin wrong. He is a hard core eco militant. Sees Europe not going green fast enough- Causes war to accelerate renewable energy.
Russians causing too much emissions- destroys economy so that conusmerism dies. Increases oil prices so that Americans move away from SUVs. Greenpeace award incoming.

 

[Feanor]

SO they used one to distract the ship and one to sink it? If that is the case, Turkey is about to fix their economic woes on TB-2 sales alone.

I'm not saying the two events were one and the same. I'm saying that it's possible Ukrainian TB2s, that were reported active in the area, were involved.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia to sign contract with Ukraine to purchase RK-360MC Neptune m

According to information released by the Defense Express website on December 24, 2020, Indonesia would have signed a contract with Ukraine for the purchase

www.navyrecognition.com

If this really work being done by Neptune SSM, it will increase the marketability (assuming Ukraine still able to produce it). Some rumours on Ukraine try to find partner by selling their design and systems, due to condition of their Military Industrial Complex.