T-98 vs Arjun
- Thread starter dabrownguy
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RealIndian
New Member
[Admin edit: http://defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php Read the rules, no PERSONAL insults.]
All the problems solved. It entered for production & by 2007 IA will induct 127 Arjun mk-II.
I was saying about Arjun. And only Arjun . no Arjun derivative mentioned by DRDO.
RealIndian
New Member
You can say this. I am not surprised. :smokingc:pezfez said:
BTW Here are some capabilities of Arjun:
- http://www.bel-india.com/Website/Products/prod_tankele_stabilizer.jpg
Cross posting From another Forum
He seems to se a tank specialist. :smokingc:
RealIndian
New Member
DRDO fixed the problems with mobility & engine heating.
• DRDO teamed up with Israeli companies to develop a digital FCS. This FCS was extensively tested by Indian Army & duly accepted.
• Development of new & better optics by BEL.
• The MoD has allocated $3.9 million to build three transporter types to move Arjun.
In addition to this Arjun achieved many goals. Some of them are listed below.
• Chromium lined barrel increases the barrel life & also the muzzle velocity of the shell.
• Arjun’s armor was tested in combat like conditions and fared very well. It also withstood direct fire of APFSDS, HEAT, HESH & various RPG roundsas per the latest trials on September 2003.
• LAHAT ATGM has been test fired from Arjun. This trials were successful.
• Never before seen crew protection levels in tanks used by Indian Army. Crew protection is paramount and slight changes have been made here. The ammo storage is in the turret bustle but is modulated and separated from the crew by armor, so that if hit by RPG or top-attack ATGM, crew remains safe.
• Integrated GPS & BMS (Battlefield Management System). These systems have touch screen for rapid access.
• A new Active Area Defense System (AADS) from Elbit.
• Estimated cost of $ 4 million per piece.
Future of Arjun looks very bright. DRDO is more confident now. Spin-offs from Arjun project have been many. Army has extensively tested a howitzer mounted on Arjun chasis named ‘Bhim’. Another is Arjun turret mounted atop T-72 chasis. It is named Tank-Ex by DRDO (some people also call it Karna).
http://orbat.com/site/weapons/2004/arjun.pdf
• DRDO teamed up with Israeli companies to develop a digital FCS. This FCS was extensively tested by Indian Army & duly accepted.
• Development of new & better optics by BEL.
• The MoD has allocated $3.9 million to build three transporter types to move Arjun.
In addition to this Arjun achieved many goals. Some of them are listed below.
• Chromium lined barrel increases the barrel life & also the muzzle velocity of the shell.
• Arjun’s armor was tested in combat like conditions and fared very well. It also withstood direct fire of APFSDS, HEAT, HESH & various RPG roundsas per the latest trials on September 2003.
• LAHAT ATGM has been test fired from Arjun. This trials were successful.
• Never before seen crew protection levels in tanks used by Indian Army. Crew protection is paramount and slight changes have been made here. The ammo storage is in the turret bustle but is modulated and separated from the crew by armor, so that if hit by RPG or top-attack ATGM, crew remains safe.
• Integrated GPS & BMS (Battlefield Management System). These systems have touch screen for rapid access.
• A new Active Area Defense System (AADS) from Elbit.
• Estimated cost of $ 4 million per piece.
Future of Arjun looks very bright. DRDO is more confident now. Spin-offs from Arjun project have been many. Army has extensively tested a howitzer mounted on Arjun chasis named ‘Bhim’. Another is Arjun turret mounted atop T-72 chasis. It is named Tank-Ex by DRDO (some people also call it Karna).
http://orbat.com/site/weapons/2004/arjun.pdf
RealIndian
New Member
Cross posting......
RealIndian
New Member
ON THE DRDO SITE publications
ARJUN gunnery Simulator :
http://www.drdo.com/pub/nl/novdec2003/development.htm
Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE), Avadi, has initiated the development of simulators for MBT Arjun gunners under the project Gunnery Arjun Part Task Training Simulator (GAPTTS). Mass production of MBT Arjun is in progress and the users need training to use this state-of-the-art battle tank effectively and efficiently. The simulators will impart cost-effective, exhaustive and extensive training.
In this novel training methodology, training will be in steps of increasing content and complexity instead of having a single simulator which traditionally many other leading tanks in the world have. It will provide training in three stages:
. Classroom Gunnery Training Simulator (CGTS-Agastya)-A software-based version with soft panels for gunnery controls is aimed at teaching the functionalities of the various controls and switches present in the gunner station to a group of gunners in a classroom. It also includes bilingual (Hindi/English) online help for the gunners to independently learn the tank gunnery operations with the help of a simple mouse click.
• Desktop Gunnery Training Simulator (DGTS-Agastya)- This aims at imparting hands-on experience to the gunners with replicated gunner station hardware. The procedural operation on the Integrated Fire Control System (IFCS) is taught. CVRDE in association with CASSA, Bangalore, has developed these two versions of training simulators.
• Gunnery Training Simulator (GTS)- A full-fledged high fidelity simulator provides with advanced procedural, laying, tracking and firing skills to the gunner. This containerised, air-conditioned simulator systems has separate compartments for the instructor and gunner. The gunner has all the vital gunners' equipment positioned in the exact place as in the tank. This simulator has gunner seat vibration unit to simulate the realistic disturbances felt by the gunner during the operation. Specially developed piping optics integrated with gunner's day and thermal eyepieces provides the same field of view of the battlefield environment as in the actual tank. The instructor with his dedicated console can plan, conduct, monitor the exercises and evaluate the trainees based on their performance.
The GTS has been developed in a record period of 15 months in association with M/s Macmet India Ltd., Bangalore and two such systems are commissioned at CVRDE. Lt Gen Tej Paul, the then CC R&D (R), inaugurated the GTS unit at CVRDE. The user training on these simulators was carried out for the batch of gunners from 43 AR. Their feedbacks were received and incorporated in the simulator.
******************
Advanced Automotive Electrical System for MBT Arjun :
(under development pics)
The Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE), Avadi, has developed Advanced Automotive Electrical System (AAES) for MBT Arjun. It is a state-of-the-art technology development programme with a processor-based control for the complete hull electrical system, MIL STD 1553B bus, touch screen display, data logging, and BITE capabilities. The system gives emphasis on optimum performance with better man-machine interface. With the use of this system, the crew will experience reduced fatigue levels and can concentrate on their primary role in a battlefield.
The system consists of Pentium processor-based dual controllers, viz., the hull controller with remote terminal units at engine and driver stations. It also includes driver's instrumental panel with electro- luminescent touch screen display, master relay box, etc. The engine's and driver's remote terminal units are identical. In case the active controller fails, the stand-by controller handles processing along with data communication without affecting its performance. Both the hull and the display controller remote terminal units control the function of the engine, automatic transmission, ancillary motors. fans, lamps and integrated fuel level monitoring of all the tanks, including the nose fuel tank.
***************
Laser Homing Anti-Tank (LAHAT) Missile for MBT Arjun
Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE), Avadi, in collaboration with a firm has developed a Laser Homing Anti-Tank (LAHAT) Missile for firing from the 120 mm rifled gun of MBT Arjun. LAHAT is a semi-active laser homing missile, which can be fired from the main gun of the tank similar to conventional rounds. The missile would significantly enhance the fighting capability of MBT Arjun since its maximum effective range is 6 km as compared to the 2.5 km of conventional ammunition. The missile can be fired either in a lofted trajectory against AFVs or in a flat trajectory against helicopters. The fire control system of the tank would include a laser designator, which will project a coded laser beam on the target. Target designation can also be done by another tank or ground laser designator.
As an intermediate stage towards the firing demonstration, some LAHAT Missiles were fired from the main gun of MBT to confirm the missile launch parameters such as sabot separation, fin deployment, etc. The penetration capability of the missile warhead was tested and the results confirmed to the requirement.
The missiles used for the firing demonstration were fitted with telemetry transmitter in place of warhead. Mobile telemetry station, generator vehicle, special target fixture and other equipment were developed for the programme. The firing results and telemetry data analysis revealed a high accuracy and repeatability of the performance.
http://www.drdo.com/pub/nl/may2004/newdev.htm
ARJUN gunnery Simulator :
http://www.drdo.com/pub/nl/novdec2003/development.htm
Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE), Avadi, has initiated the development of simulators for MBT Arjun gunners under the project Gunnery Arjun Part Task Training Simulator (GAPTTS). Mass production of MBT Arjun is in progress and the users need training to use this state-of-the-art battle tank effectively and efficiently. The simulators will impart cost-effective, exhaustive and extensive training.
In this novel training methodology, training will be in steps of increasing content and complexity instead of having a single simulator which traditionally many other leading tanks in the world have. It will provide training in three stages:
. Classroom Gunnery Training Simulator (CGTS-Agastya)-A software-based version with soft panels for gunnery controls is aimed at teaching the functionalities of the various controls and switches present in the gunner station to a group of gunners in a classroom. It also includes bilingual (Hindi/English) online help for the gunners to independently learn the tank gunnery operations with the help of a simple mouse click.
• Desktop Gunnery Training Simulator (DGTS-Agastya)- This aims at imparting hands-on experience to the gunners with replicated gunner station hardware. The procedural operation on the Integrated Fire Control System (IFCS) is taught. CVRDE in association with CASSA, Bangalore, has developed these two versions of training simulators.
• Gunnery Training Simulator (GTS)- A full-fledged high fidelity simulator provides with advanced procedural, laying, tracking and firing skills to the gunner. This containerised, air-conditioned simulator systems has separate compartments for the instructor and gunner. The gunner has all the vital gunners' equipment positioned in the exact place as in the tank. This simulator has gunner seat vibration unit to simulate the realistic disturbances felt by the gunner during the operation. Specially developed piping optics integrated with gunner's day and thermal eyepieces provides the same field of view of the battlefield environment as in the actual tank. The instructor with his dedicated console can plan, conduct, monitor the exercises and evaluate the trainees based on their performance.
The GTS has been developed in a record period of 15 months in association with M/s Macmet India Ltd., Bangalore and two such systems are commissioned at CVRDE. Lt Gen Tej Paul, the then CC R&D (R), inaugurated the GTS unit at CVRDE. The user training on these simulators was carried out for the batch of gunners from 43 AR. Their feedbacks were received and incorporated in the simulator.
******************
Advanced Automotive Electrical System for MBT Arjun :
(under development pics)
The Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE), Avadi, has developed Advanced Automotive Electrical System (AAES) for MBT Arjun. It is a state-of-the-art technology development programme with a processor-based control for the complete hull electrical system, MIL STD 1553B bus, touch screen display, data logging, and BITE capabilities. The system gives emphasis on optimum performance with better man-machine interface. With the use of this system, the crew will experience reduced fatigue levels and can concentrate on their primary role in a battlefield.
The system consists of Pentium processor-based dual controllers, viz., the hull controller with remote terminal units at engine and driver stations. It also includes driver's instrumental panel with electro- luminescent touch screen display, master relay box, etc. The engine's and driver's remote terminal units are identical. In case the active controller fails, the stand-by controller handles processing along with data communication without affecting its performance. Both the hull and the display controller remote terminal units control the function of the engine, automatic transmission, ancillary motors. fans, lamps and integrated fuel level monitoring of all the tanks, including the nose fuel tank.
***************
Laser Homing Anti-Tank (LAHAT) Missile for MBT Arjun
Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE), Avadi, in collaboration with a firm has developed a Laser Homing Anti-Tank (LAHAT) Missile for firing from the 120 mm rifled gun of MBT Arjun. LAHAT is a semi-active laser homing missile, which can be fired from the main gun of the tank similar to conventional rounds. The missile would significantly enhance the fighting capability of MBT Arjun since its maximum effective range is 6 km as compared to the 2.5 km of conventional ammunition. The missile can be fired either in a lofted trajectory against AFVs or in a flat trajectory against helicopters. The fire control system of the tank would include a laser designator, which will project a coded laser beam on the target. Target designation can also be done by another tank or ground laser designator.
As an intermediate stage towards the firing demonstration, some LAHAT Missiles were fired from the main gun of MBT to confirm the missile launch parameters such as sabot separation, fin deployment, etc. The penetration capability of the missile warhead was tested and the results confirmed to the requirement.
The missiles used for the firing demonstration were fitted with telemetry transmitter in place of warhead. Mobile telemetry station, generator vehicle, special target fixture and other equipment were developed for the programme. The firing results and telemetry data analysis revealed a high accuracy and repeatability of the performance.
http://www.drdo.com/pub/nl/may2004/newdev.htm
RealIndian
New Member
Here is the Arjun transmission control unit (i.e. the gear shifter). Its an all electronic transmission system... Some details from DRDO:
Code:
This is a heavy duty, high power transmission-cum-steering system. This hard-wired semi-automatic transmission controller developed to control the above transmission, caters for manual mode of operation. In manual mode, gear- selection is left to the driver from 1st to 4th gear. The electronic control box receives control commands from the gear selection unit. After processing these commands, control logic signals are sent to actuate solenoid valve to shift gears or inhibit certain actions. Gear selector unit and transmission junction box have been developed and integrated in the indigenous transmission vehicle. Field trials compiling 1200 km have been successfully completed.
The main features of the transmission controller are:
Four forward and two reverse speed operation selection
Lock-up converter operation for smooth gear shift during change of gears by disengaging the converter solenoid for a minimum period of 600 ms
Lock-up solenoid operation by engaging first and third gear simultaneously
Direction lever-lock at engine speed exceeding safety limit and unlock mechanism to prevent accidental direction selection, and
Safety provision for engaging the gear-solenoid after sensing the control pressure using the pressure switches.RealIndian
New Member
A model of the Arjun MBT at Def Expo 2004. :smokingc:
LAHAT
LAHAT
the specs r just like ne other tank, just like the t98 or ak. Admin: Unnecessary comments edited out. Control your comments or risk losing your entire post next time!
and the so called tank expert on acig or afm forum is a kid (like me
). if he was a tank developer or tank expert he wouldn't spend his time on kiddy forums but working. it doesn't take much to crate a farse like that, just take the best vocab u can find, and the article would be in a defence journal like janes not some copy and paste kiddy site.
and the so called tank expert on acig or afm forum is a kid (like me
). if he was a tank developer or tank expert he wouldn't spend his time on kiddy forums but working. it doesn't take much to crate a farse like that, just take the best vocab u can find, and the article would be in a defence journal like janes not some copy and paste kiddy site.RealIndian
New Member
pezfez said:the specs r just like ne other tank, just like the t98 or ak. Admin: Unnecessary comments edited out. Control your comments or risk losing your entire post next time!
and the so called tank expert on acig or afm forum is a kid (like me
Can you give some specs about from a govt site? LOL.
doggychow14
New Member
i'm new to this forum. i have to say holy poopy, lots of patriotic people here. janes defence says the t-98 will be the best in the world when fielded.
Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 20:43 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jane's Defense Weekly, a respected Britain-based military journal, said the People's Liberation Army is set to deploy a new main battle tank, or MBT, that, when fielded, will become the most powerful of its kind in the world.
The Type-98 nonetheless demonstrates that the PLA is capable of producing a world-class MBT.
Status: T-98 already in service, T-98Gai(Improved version) in production. PLA are also producing T-99. T-2000 in design.
PLA T-98 Main Battle Tank Specifictions:
Weight: 51 tons
Engine: 1,200hp diesel
Power to weight ratio: 23.5hp/ ton
SPEED: 60 km/h
RANGE: 450km
Armor: Frontal arc of turret in RHA: KE Round, 700mm, T-98Gai, 830mm; CE Rnd: 800mm, T-98Gai, 1060mm
Armament:
MAIN GUN: 125mm smoothbore cannon/missile launcher, 41 rnds; PENETRATION: KE, 800mm; 960mm reported w/ new DU rnd, CE, 680mm est; 9M119 REFLEKS (AT-11 Sniper) gun-launched laser-guided anti-tank missiles, 5km range; 1 x 12.7 mm MG
M1A2 Specifications:
Weight 69.54 tons
Propulsion Gas turbine engine, 1500 horsepower
Power-to-weight ratio 21.6 hp/ton
Performance
Maximum governed speed 42 m.p.h.
Speed cross country 30 m.p.h.
Range 265 miles cruising
Main armament 120 mm smooth bore cannon, M256
Coaxial Weapon 7.62 mm machine gun, M240
Loader's Weapon 7.62 mm machine gun, M240, on Skate mount
and it seems the chinese seems to be developing the t-99 and t-2000. wonder where they get the money? problly from all the money US companies r pouring into china
Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 20:43 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jane's Defense Weekly, a respected Britain-based military journal, said the People's Liberation Army is set to deploy a new main battle tank, or MBT, that, when fielded, will become the most powerful of its kind in the world.
The Type-98 nonetheless demonstrates that the PLA is capable of producing a world-class MBT.
Status: T-98 already in service, T-98Gai(Improved version) in production. PLA are also producing T-99. T-2000 in design.
PLA T-98 Main Battle Tank Specifictions:
Weight: 51 tons
Engine: 1,200hp diesel
Power to weight ratio: 23.5hp/ ton
SPEED: 60 km/h
RANGE: 450km
Armor: Frontal arc of turret in RHA: KE Round, 700mm, T-98Gai, 830mm; CE Rnd: 800mm, T-98Gai, 1060mm
Armament:
MAIN GUN: 125mm smoothbore cannon/missile launcher, 41 rnds; PENETRATION: KE, 800mm; 960mm reported w/ new DU rnd, CE, 680mm est; 9M119 REFLEKS (AT-11 Sniper) gun-launched laser-guided anti-tank missiles, 5km range; 1 x 12.7 mm MG
M1A2 Specifications:
Weight 69.54 tons
Propulsion Gas turbine engine, 1500 horsepower
Power-to-weight ratio 21.6 hp/ton
Performance
Maximum governed speed 42 m.p.h.
Speed cross country 30 m.p.h.
Range 265 miles cruising
Main armament 120 mm smooth bore cannon, M256
Coaxial Weapon 7.62 mm machine gun, M240
Loader's Weapon 7.62 mm machine gun, M240, on Skate mount
and it seems the chinese seems to be developing the t-99 and t-2000. wonder where they get the money? problly from all the money US companies r pouring into china
First it's not T-98, it's Type 98.doggychow14 said:
Second Type 99 and Type 98 is the same tank, the designation apparently changed after the 1999 parade. So the official designation is Type 99.
Third there is never a plan, for a tank called T-2000. Type 99G is the continued development of Type 99, China does not plan to introduce another new tank for at least another decade.
dabrownguy
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #113
I don't want to cause any flames but the Type 98G or ztz-99 what ever are pretty much small soviet style tanks with a 125 mm smoothbore gun. These guns usually loose aim at 2.5 km and that is why the T-90 comparable to the Lecerlc fires ATMissiles for a 3 km range. Type 98 probably did that and upgrades made it easier. If PRC went ahead and up gunned there 125 mm smoothbore to 152 mm like the Russians are trying to do than its going to take 5 years more research and 3 more years to put it on tank. There is some BS going around that the Type 98 variants weighing 60 tons which is very unlikely considering their size and a major change like that would make the crew very uncomfortable. Future variants may weigh 60 tons but that’s a good 5 years away. Just my thought.
This is a comparison of world tanks
Specifications Arjun MK 2 Challenger 2 Leopard 2
Weight 59 tons 62.5 tons 55.15
Length (gun forwards) 10.19 m 11.55m 7.69
Width (over tracks) 3.5m 3.52 3.7
(w/ skirts) 3.85m
Height (w/o 12.7mm AAMG) 2.32m 2.49 2.79
Engine 1400 hp MTU Diesel or 1500 engine 1500-hp Diesel
Transmission Semi-automatic with 4 forward and 2 reverse gears. 1200bhp
Fuel 1610 ltrs
Max Speed 72-70 kph (55 mph) 59 kph 72
Cross Country 40 kph 40 kph 45
Cruising Range 200 km (120 miles) 450km
Ground Pressure . 84 kg/cm square 0.83
Ground Clearance .45m
Slide Slope: 60%
Climbing Gradient 35
Trench 2.43 or 3m
Vertical Obstacle .9m
Ford 1.4m
Main Gun 120 mm stabalized rifled gun. Royal Ordnance 120mm L30 gun 120-mm APFSDS-T
LRF Range 10 km
Sights Thermal 5.5 km
Active and Passive Elta Galix
Crew 4 4 4
This is a comparison of world tanks
Specifications Arjun MK 2 Challenger 2 Leopard 2
Weight 59 tons 62.5 tons 55.15
Length (gun forwards) 10.19 m 11.55m 7.69
Width (over tracks) 3.5m 3.52 3.7
(w/ skirts) 3.85m
Height (w/o 12.7mm AAMG) 2.32m 2.49 2.79
Engine 1400 hp MTU Diesel or 1500 engine 1500-hp Diesel
Transmission Semi-automatic with 4 forward and 2 reverse gears. 1200bhp
Fuel 1610 ltrs
Max Speed 72-70 kph (55 mph) 59 kph 72
Cross Country 40 kph 40 kph 45
Cruising Range 200 km (120 miles) 450km
Ground Pressure . 84 kg/cm square 0.83
Ground Clearance .45m
Slide Slope: 60%
Climbing Gradient 35
Trench 2.43 or 3m
Vertical Obstacle .9m
Ford 1.4m
Main Gun 120 mm stabalized rifled gun. Royal Ordnance 120mm L30 gun 120-mm APFSDS-T
LRF Range 10 km
Sights Thermal 5.5 km
Active and Passive Elta Galix
Crew 4 4 4
doggychow14
New Member
hey don't blame me. i just recited info from janes. back up ur argument with credible sources like janes defence weekly.
Well That is true, at least mostly.dabrownguy said:
In 1994, Russian demontrated their T-80 MBT to Chinese military leaders and managed to impress them. About a dozen of T-80 MBT was purchase and immediately begun to study them. So today's Type 99 you see now uses the same auto loaders and has similar armour to T-80. The difference is the gun, turret and laser defence system.
dabrownguy
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #116
I like the way the Arjun puts its smoke gernades in the back. That looks pretty innovative.
to yutong chen
Its impossible to say that you can fire 4.6km or 8km with direct fire sabot and heat rounds.
the 125mm soviet/chinese gun has never fired a sabot on target beyond 3km that is why the soviets/russians/ukrainians developed the at-6 s-11 missiles to be fired from the tank gun
the Indian arjun will likely have the same feature as israel makes a 120mm tank fired missile.
edge arjun
Its impossible to say that you can fire 4.6km or 8km with direct fire sabot and heat rounds.
the 125mm soviet/chinese gun has never fired a sabot on target beyond 3km that is why the soviets/russians/ukrainians developed the at-6 s-11 missiles to be fired from the tank gun
the Indian arjun will likely have the same feature as israel makes a 120mm tank fired missile.
edge arjun
Agreed, the whole reason why Russia (and subs China) have looked at GM fired rounds is because the metallurgy in their platforms was not of sufficient quality to match guns such as the 120 NATO's etc.. In fact the L7 will still outshoot russian tanks with more persistent accuracy and flight parameters.Libyan said:
The only tank (with a credible recorded source) to shoot past 5km and kill another tank is the Chally2.
The reason why russia and china went to 125's was because they couldn't match the terminal efficiency of NATO std 120's. They've tried to compensate by using bore fired missiles.
The Israeli use of MG fired missiles is due to a diff tactical requirement - it's NOT to get ranging issues resolved.
Here is a new photo i found for T-99G
And GF, China's 125mm gun is alot different than Russian 125mm one. The 125mm gun's origin was the 120mm anti-tank gun developed almost entirely by China in the late 1970's to mid 1980's. The requirement for the 120mm gun originally was to be able to penetrate T-72BM and T80's armour in the distance of 2km. The 125mm gun mounted on T-99 was improved upon this one.
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/artillery/antitank/120.asp
this article will give you the info you need.
And GF, China's 125mm gun is alot different than Russian 125mm one. The 125mm gun's origin was the 120mm anti-tank gun developed almost entirely by China in the late 1970's to mid 1980's. The requirement for the 120mm gun originally was to be able to penetrate T-72BM and T80's armour in the distance of 2km. The 125mm gun mounted on T-99 was improved upon this one.
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/artillery/antitank/120.asp
this article will give you the info you need.
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