Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

[Feanor]

Update.

Another 22800 has been launched. There are now quite a few of these sitting in the water, with the question of engines unresolved. Nonetheless production on these is continuing at excellent pace, by Russian standards.

В Феодосии спущен на воду малый ракетный корабль «Вихрь» проекта 22800

The 9th and 10th Boreys (955A) are to be laid down in May 2020. Two more 885Ms are also planned. In my opinion the smart choice would be to continue production of both until the complete replacement of Soviet era vessels for both nuke attack subs and SLBM carriers.

Девятый и десятый атомные подводные ракетоносцы типа «Борей» будут заложены в мае 2020 года

The second 23550 icebreaker patrol vessel has been laid down.

Заложен второй патрульный корабль ледового класса «Николай Зубов» проекта 23550

The first 20385 is undergoing trials. There is information that new corvettes are to be laid down, of unspecified type. Given the delays and complication of the 20386 program, perhaps more 20380 or 20385 are planned.

Корвет «Гремящий» будет проходить Государственные испытания в Белом море

EDIT: Work is proceeding on the combination of two smaller dry-docks into one larger one for the Admiral Kuznetsov refit.

На 35-м судоремонтном заводе ведутся активные работы по реконструкции сухого дока

 

[Feanor]

Thank you for your explanation Feanor!
The first boat of the Project 677 Lada Class are for the Baltic fleet, the second and third boats are redesigned and modified, but how operationable (combat capable) is the first of class, B-585?

Second question, what are the problems with the new Alexandrit minehunters?

Ok it took me a little while to find this, but here's a closer look at the anti-mine system the 12700s currently carry, and the proposed import-based alternative. It's in Russian. I'll translate the most relevant parts about the ISPUM, and the problems brought up.

Противоминные комплексы на МВМС-2019.

Что мы по-сути имеем?
Да, на ПМК проекта 12700 установлен ИСПУМ. Как ГАС миноискания он очень и очень неплох (в "Регионе" акустическая школа очень сильная), однако избыточно сложен, и имеет очень высокую стоимость. Однако главная проблема ИСПУМ в другом: его ЕДИНСТВЕННЫЙ "молоток" (уничтожать мины) является крайне дорогостоящим "куском гидроакустического комплекса" весом в тонну, с физполями с которыми он подорвется на первой же "мине-защитнике".

What do we have in essence? The 12700s carry the ISPUM. As a hydroacoustic system it's not bad ("Region" has a strong acoustic school) but it's very complex and is expensive. However it's main problem is in this: it's ONLY "hammer" (destroying mines) is a highly expensive "piece of hydroacoustic complex" that weighs a tonn, with physical fields that will cause it to be destroyed by the first "defender-mine".

Еще одной проблемой ИСПУМ является крайне низкая взрывостойкость комплекса.
Проведение реальных испытаний на подрыв ПМК проекта 12700 с ИСПУМ, аналогично западным испытаниям тальщиков и кораблей "шок триалз" будет иметь просто катастрофические последствия, - как для техники, так и должностных лиц (поэтому таких испытаний у нас нет).

One other problem of the ISPUM is the low resistance to explosions. Conducting real tests with an explosion near the 12700 with an ISPUM, similar to western trials of minesweeper and ships "shock trials" would have catastrophic results both for the systems and the officials responsible (which is why we aren't conducting them).

Самоходных тралов в ВМФ уже нет (были) и не планируются, т.е. прикрывать ТНПА от "мин-защитников" просто нечем.
БЭК-неконтактные тралы "Челнок" списаны:

The VMF has no self-propelled mine trawls and none are planned, so there is nothing to protect the UNS from defender-mines. No-contact tralws Chelnok have all been retired.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Havent found this news in English yet, but according to this Dutch newsnetwork, there was today a fire on the Admiral Kuznetsov. 600 sq meters are on fire....
Brand op Russische vliegdekschip Admiraal Koeznetsov

 

[CheeZe]

It's all over the English language news now. Several injured and apparently it was a diesel fuel fire. Not much beyond that.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

K

It's all over the English language news now. Several injured and apparently it was a diesel fuel fire. Not much beyond that.

Yes thank you, i found later some newsreports about the fire from yesterday.

I was just surprised that they continue the overhaul on the Admiral Kuznetsov after the accident on 30 October 2018, when one of the dock's 70-ton cranes crashed onto the ship leaving behind a huge hole in the flight deck.
But now there is again a setback and from which i understand many cables were burning yesterday, that means they have to start all over again after structural repairs.

 

[Ananda]

Firefighters put out blaze onboard Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier

If I see the pictures on this TASS report, I have big question on structural viability of Kuznetsov after this kind of fire. By only seeing this pictures, seems the fire consume big part of below flight deck hangar area.

Honestly if that really happen, Russia better off scrap Kuznetsov then using the fund to begin construction of new carrier.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Firefighters put out blaze onboard Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier

If I see the pictures on this TASS report, I have big question on structural viability of Kuznetsov after this kind of fire. By only seeing this pictures, seems the fire consume big part of below flight deck hangar area.

Honestly if that really happen, Russia better off scrap Kuznetsov then using the fund to begin construction of new carrier.

Agree.
Since the beginning there were cpntinuesly technical problems with this ship, specially the boilers and steam turbines are unreliable from which i understand, plus many other technical malfunctions.
I think it should not be a problem to order a hull of a modified Ulyanovsk class/Project 23000 design from India, Russia's most loyal costumer, their Cochin Shipyard is able to construct aircraft carriers.
This hull can be transported to Russia, and then the Russian can install whatever they want, the (nuclear) propulsion, sensors, combat management systems, weapon systems, lifts, cables, pipes...

 

[Feanor]

Agree.
Since the beginning there were cpntinuesly technical problems with this ship, specially the boilers and steam turbines are unreliable from which i understand, plus many other technical malfunctions.
I think it should not be a problem to order a hull of a modified Ulyanovsk class/Project 23000 design from India, Russia's most loyal costumer, their Cochin Shipyard is able to construct aircraft carriers.
This hull can be transported to Russia, and then the Russian can install whatever they want, the (nuclear) propulsion, sensors, combat management systems, weapon systems, lifts, cables, pipes...

This would be wise but it's extremely unlikely. The likeliest scenario is that they will forge ahead with the overhaul, and possibly at some later date attempt to build a domestic replacement.

 

[StobieWan]

Firefighters put out blaze onboard Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier

If I see the pictures on this TASS report, I have big question on structural viability of Kuznetsov after this kind of fire. By only seeing this pictures, seems the fire consume big part of below flight deck hangar area.

Honestly if that really happen, Russia better off scrap Kuznetsov then using the fund to begin construction of new carrier.

Well, she was probably a constructive loss after the dock sank under her so I suspect they'll just plough ahead with their refurbishment over a longer and longer period of time, in a similar way to the Kirov's have spent time in limbo, neither fit to sale nor stricken from the rolls.

 

[Feanor]

Well, she was probably a constructive loss after the dock sank under her so I suspect they'll just plough ahead with their refurbishment over a longer and longer period of time, in a similar way to the Kirov's have spent time in limbo, neither fit to sale nor stricken from the rolls.

Well remember the long retirement of the Kirov's is ending with the Nakhimov returning to service. I wouldn't put it past the VMF to return the Kuznetsov to service after all. In 8-10 years, for example.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Well, she was probably a constructive loss after the dock sank under her so I suspect they'll just plough ahead with their refurbishment over a longer and longer period of time, in a similar way to the Kirov's have spent time in limbo, neither fit to sale nor stricken from the rolls.

Im afraid that her repair and overhaul will become as cheap, quickly and successful as INS Vikramaditya's.

Other news
Russian missile submarine sank in Japan sea

So it seems that the second boat of the Project 877, the B-260 Chita, has partly sunk when it was towed for dismantling.

 

[Feanor]

Im afraid that her repair and overhaul will become as cheap, quickly and successful as INS Vikramaditya's.

I suspect that you're being overly optimistic.

But on a sidenote it's been a bad week for the VMF. Another floating dock sank in the Black Sea. The PD-16 is an ancient device, and was housing a decomissioned submarine that managed to remain afloat.

ЧП в Южной бухте

 

[Feanor]

Update, the damage from the fire on the Kuznetsov was estimated at 95 bln roubles from an un-named inside source. If true, this is extremely high, and indicates a much more severe incident then what was reported. Nonetheless it is still planned to complete repairs.

Источник оценил ущерб «Адмирала Кузнецова» от пожара в 95 миллиардов рублей
"Коммерсант": ущерб от пожара на "Адмирале Кузнецове" почти равен стоимости корабля
Невезучий крейсер "Адмирал Кузнецов", который "давно пора разрезать", надеются вернуть в строй после пожара с двумя погибшими

The second 11711 BDK is beginning sea trials. Despite the delays and problems of the type, I think these two ships are important. The age of the 755s and 1171s is telling, and they were instrumental in the recent Syrian express. Russia badly needs a replacement, and one to the tune of 18-24 vessels. The projected helo-carriers won't fit the bill.

Большой десантный корабль «Пётр Моргунов» проекта 11711 в море

The first 20385 fired Oniks and Kalibr missiles at sea and coastal targets in the course of trials. The same for the Kasatonov, 22350.

«Гремящий» выполнил стрельбу "Ониксом" и "Калибром" по надводной цели
"Касатонов"

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The third of the Project 885 Yasen class (and second of the 885M version), the Novosibirsk, has been launched on First Christmas Day, 25-12-2019.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/7419695

Hopefully the finishing of the construction and the tests will go smoothly without accidents.

 

[Feanor]

Updates.

A hint was dropped by Counter-Admiral Korolyov, the Deputy Pacific Fleet commander responsible for procurement that a series of 10 project 20380 corvettes might be in the works, to be built at the Amur shipyards. This is good news, hopefully marks the end of the silly design experiments with the 20386s, and falls in line with the earlier announcements that new corvettes are planned to be laid down next year.

Планируется постройка на Амурском судостроительном заводе десяти корветов проекта 20380

The 3rd project 12700 mine trawler and 8th 21631 small missile ship have entered service, going to the Black Sea Fleet.

Введен в строй морской тральщик «Владимир Емельянов» проекта 12700
Введен в строй малый ракетный корабль «Ингушетия» проекта 21631

The second improved Kilo for the Pacific Fleet has been launched.

Спущена на воду подводная лодка Б-603 «Волхов» проекта 06363

An upgraded version of the Onyx has completed trials, presumed to have a range of 800kms. Rumors of upgrades to their effective range have been going around for a while.

В России завершены испытания корабельного ракетного комплекса «Оникс»

The third 22800 small missile ship for the Pacific Fleet has been laid down.

На Амурском судостроительном заводе заложен малый ракетный корабль «Уссурийск» проекта 22800

Some interesting models were seen at a recent arms-expo, one of them a new corvette based on the 22800 small missile ship. It appears to have 16 UKSK cells, and possibly additional ASW gear, suggesting this might be the small anti-submarine warfare ship proposed on the basis of the 22800. Another one is the project 545 submarine, a potential future attack submarine, to follow on the 885M class.

Корвет на базе "Каракурта"
Перспективный атомный подводный крейсер проекта 545 "Лайка-ВМФ"

The Marshal Ustinov 1164 cruise has arrived in Sevastopol, giving us a rare sight of two of them side by side. Despite their age, these are still relevant and impressive warships. It's possible that this is a precursor to the Moskva going into repairs and upgrades, while the Ustinov remains to hold the place of the Black Sea Fleet flagship, though this is speculative at best.

РАКЕТНЫЙ КРЕЙСЕР "МАРШАЛ УСТИНОВ" ПРИБЫЛ НА УЧЕНИЯ В СЕВАСТОПОЛЬ!

 

[Ananda]

Putin takes a look at new aircraft carrier

Project Lamatin (11430E) as other carrier concept competing with Project Shtrom (23000). Interesting concept as seems it will have 2 catapults (steam or emals is not clear yet) for heavier aircraft and 2 STOBAR style skie jump.

I don't know why they do it, but seems it's an option showing Russian are not really sure yet on their own catapults technology.

 

[Feanor]

Putin takes a look at new aircraft carrier

Project Lamatin (11430E) as other carrier concept competing with Project Shtrom (23000). Interesting concept as seems it will have 2 catapults (steam or emals is not clear yet) for heavier aircraft and 2 STOBAR style skie jump.

I don't know why they do it, but seems it's an option showing Russian are not really sure yet on their own catapults technology.

Much more interesting, and troubling, things were shown at that event then this particular half-assed model.

For example, the 20386 has been enlarged and reworked to carry 16 UKSK cells, in addition to 16 Redut cells. It was always more of a frigate then a corvette, but now it's definitely a frigate. However it's labeled as a "oceanic zone corvette" which is not only nonsensical but also strongly suggests that it's endurance is still too low to be utilized as a frigate. I personally hope this project goes nowhere. The VMF have a corvette, and it's quite adequate. The improvements it needed were a better air defense radar, bigger fuel capacity for the on-board helo, and reloadable anti-torpedoes (the current Packet comes in factory loaded containers that are far too heavy to reload easily at sea). It's already gotten the Zaslon for the upgraded 20380s, and for the 20385s. The 20386 is a much bigger and more expensive ship with new systems, originally with subpar ASW gear (a simplified set of what the 20380 has) and would have to be built from scratch. Large numbers are unlikely, and the VMF badly needs ships. Continuing the 20380 run, with upgrades along the above-mentioned lines, is the best option.

Перспективный корабль на основе корвета проекта 20386
Photo

Then there was this, two new corvette models based on an upsized 223800. It's not surprising, since corvettes are relatively simple to design (compared to say frigates or destroyers) and the VMF can afford them in some quantity. So many design bureaus and factories want a piece of the pie, honestly I think further production of new corvette types is a bad idea. Especially in narrowly-specified variants like the earlier-proposed small anti-submarine warfare ship based on the 22800 hull.

Wall
Wall
Многоцелевой корвет на основе малого ракетного корабля проекта 22800

Then there was the new LHD to be built in Crimea. It's clearly based on the Mistral, and has little in common with the two designs earlier proposed, the Priboy and the Lavina, and comes from an unlikely source - AK Bars. It almost looks like an up-sized Mistral with some design changes.

Проект универсального десантного корабля от судостроительной корпорации "Ак-Барс"
https://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/2545404.html
http://forumuploads.ru/uploads/000a/e3/16/233/51659.png

Allegedly, repairs of the Moskva are nearing completion. It's unclear what this means in real world terms.

https://vk.com/video-123538639_456257259?list=1d197199658a0f29dc

Some aerial shots of the Zaliv shipbuilding plant in Crimea, that's currently building three 22800 small missile ships, two 22160 patrol ships, and two support ships.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3899177.html

Finally, the Retiviy, the first modified 20380 has been taken out of the closed shipyard, and is preparing for launch.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3893765.html

 

[Spacearrow99]

Kunetsov is recieving computerized boilers. This article talks about why Russia would need to build future carriers.

Эвакуатор для горячих точек | Еженедельник «Военно-промышленный курьер»

The Russian auxiliary fleet is older than Surface fleet. The VMF is will receive 173 auxiliary by 2027. Even then the auxiliary fleet would still need to replace well over 140 ships. A tanker model of this project was part of Putin's presentation at the Nakhimov Naval Academy.

Источник: линейку новых вспомогательных судов для ВМФ начнут с универсального транспорта

Here are good picks of model of the basic 20386's stern. The helicopter (37 ft length) picks are the best. When considering the beam of ship, and if the 20386 has the Kirov class hanger elevator system, with full beam hanger. The 20386 could carry 8 40 ft containers. The Harpsichord UUV can be deployed in 40 ft containers.

ВОЕННО-ПОЛИТИЧЕСКИЕ И ВОЕННО-ТЕХНИЧЕСКИЕ НОВОСТИ - НОВОСТИ СОБЫТИЯ ФОТОГРАФИИ NEWS EVENTS PHOTOS - MILITARY-POLITICAL AND MILITARY-TECHNICAL NEWS

H I Sutton - Covert Shores

Anton Siluanov does not want the federal government to finance Amur and Khabarovsk shipyard modernizations. Amur has to have work so 10 20380s may be ordered.

 

[Feanor]

Here are good picks of model of the basic 20386's stern. The helicopter (37 ft length) picks are the best. When considering the beam of ship, and if the 20386 has the Kirov class hanger elevator system, with full beam hanger. The 20386 could carry 8 40 ft containers. The Harpsichord UUV can be deployed in 40 ft containers.

ВОЕННО-ПОЛИТИЧЕСКИЕ И ВОЕННО-ТЕХНИЧЕСКИЕ НОВОСТИ - НОВОСТИ СОБЫТИЯ ФОТОГРАФИИ NEWS EVENTS PHOTOS - MILITARY-POLITICAL AND MILITARY-TECHNICAL NEWS

So this is actually out of date. The new 20386 they have shown has changed dimensions, and weapon loadout, it now carries 16 UKSK cells.

EDIT: There is actually unconfirmed info that the ship was re-laid down with a new name, the Mercury.

 

[Spacearrow99]

So this is actually out of date. The new 20386 they have shown has changed dimensions, and weapon loadout, it now carries 16 UKSK cells.

EDIT: There is actually unconfirmed info that the ship was re-laid down with a new name, the Mercury.

I think he 20386 reducers are scheduled to be completed by the end of 2021, so they time to relay the ship. The bow and stern were lenghten. Admiral Evmenov stated that the new ship would carry 32 Kalibr, so stern section is still similar to the regular 20386.

НЕВСКИЙ БАСТИОН, ВОЕННО-ТЕХНИЧЕСКИЙ СБОРНИК, ВООРУЖЕНИЯ, ВОЕННАЯ ТЕХНИКА, ВОЕННО-ТЕХНИЧЕСКИЙ СБОРНИК, СОВРЕМЕННОЕ СОСТОЯНИЕ, ИСТОРИЯ РАЗВИТИЯ ОПК, БАСТИОН ВТС, НЕВСКИЙ БАСТИОН, ЖУРНАЛ, СБОРНИК, ВПК, АРМИИ, ВЫСТАВКИ, САЛОНЫ, ВОЕННО-ТЕХНИЧЕСКИЕ, НОВОСТИ, ПОСЛЕДНИЕ НОВОСТИ, ВОЕННЫЕ НОВОСТИ, СОБЫТИЯ ФАКТЫ ВПК, НОВОСТИ ОПК, ОБОРОННАЯ ПРОМЫШЛЕННОСТЬ, МИНИСТРЕСТВО ОБОРОНЫ, СИЛОВЫХ СТРУКТУР, КРАСНАЯ АРМИЯ, СОВЕТСКАЯ АРМИЯ, РУССКАЯ АРМИЯ, ЗАРУБЕЖНЫЕ ВОЕННЫЕ НОВОСТИ, ВиВТ, ПВН

Замышляется ли переделка проекта 20386?


The VMF will turn stored tu-204/214's into ASW aircraft

Козырной «Ту»: противолодочный самолет сделают на базе пассажирского


The A K Bars design can carry many 40 ft containers. Which may be loaded with offensive and defense weapons system. Servernya Verf's delayed moderization has cost themselves a major contract.