Russia to get SU-35 by 2011

[Haavarla]

Crusader2000;167626]Well, this has been debated many times over and over again...........There is no evidence that Sukhoi is going to start production on the Su-35 anytime soon. Nor, has the Russian Government officially ordered the Su-35.........

Are you claiming Zelin and Sukhoi officials for liars?

Exactly what kind of "evidence do you require, except serial production?

An E-mail from Sukhoi director perhaps?

If Sukhoi and the RuAF dont care if the "whole world should know about it", so what?
I still think those article state the obvious:
First they will finnish the testing with the prototypes and decide wether they are happy with the avionics, hardware and software.

The third and last prototype should emerge anytime now to speed up the testing/evaluation.


One thing i wonder about is this:

Fairly unlikely.. but If India where to phurphase any Su-35 in the future for their Heavy interceptor(Su-30MKI) regiments.

Wont there be a conflict with KNAAPO and IRKUTS consider IAF years of cooperation and client with Irkuts plant???



"The whole work on integration of avionics and weapons was conducted with participation of an India Air Force Project Team working in Moscow on a permanent basis.

"Within the frames of developing cooperation with the Indian Air Force, IRKUT is actively participating in the implementation of a contract signed in December 200, for licensed prduction of the Su-30MKI fighters in India at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) facilities. Presently, two first Su-30MKI of HAL are undergoing flight trials in the city of Nasik. According to the contract that reaches through 2017, the Indian Side is manufacturing the Su-30MKI including engines, aircraft systems and avionics."

http://www.irkut.com/en/news/news_archives/index.php?id48=127



And even better:

"IRKUT CORPORATION AWARDED FOR SU-30MKI PROGRAM

At the AERO INDIA 2009 international air show and exhibition «FORCE» magazine presented the award to «Irkut» Corporation, prime contractor and coordinator of the Su-30 program, acknowledged as the best program of India’s military-technical cooperation with foreign countries in combat aviation.

JSC «Sukhoi Company» CEO Mikhail Pogosyan received the award on behalf of «Sukhoi Design Bureau» for the Su-30MKI design and development.

«FORCE» also recognized the personal contribution of Alexey Fedorov, President of JSC«United Aircraft Corporation» to Indo-Russian military-technical cooperation within the scope of the Su-30MKI project.

At the ceremony the awards were presented by Prawin Sawhney, editor-in-chief of the «FORCE» magazine that specializes in covering national security and defense issues.

According to a massive study conducted by experts from this respected Indian publication the Su-30MKI program is the most successful in the history of India’s military-technical cooperation with foreign countries, with the aircraft considered one of the top multi-role fighters in the world. The research authors highlight that the Su-30MKI became the first serially produced combat aircraft in the world to feature super-maneuverability conferred by the ultimate aerodynamic layout and TVC engines. A particular appreciation was expressed towards the onboard avionics suite with ESA radar to be the first fitted onto the exported fighter aircraft.

The specialists emphasize the fact that the Su-30MKI is the first combat machine developed outside India in accordance with the strict IAF requirements and produced in cooperation with Indian industry.

«Irkut» Corporation delivered to India over 100 aircraft and technological kits for their license production by Hindustan Aeronautics ltd. Since 2007 the Su-30MKI phases I and II are being upgraded to final technical configuration. Moreover in 2007 the contracts were signed to supply the IAF with 18 Su-30MKI aircraft in lieu of earlier inducted Su-30K and to deliver additional batch of 40 Su-30MKI."

http://www.irkut.com/en/news/press_release_archives/index.php?id48=295

I just don't see KNAAPO and IAF in any Su-35 deal in the near or distant future..

 

[Scorpion82]

Wont there be a conflict with KNAAPO and IRKUTS consider IAF years of cooperation and client with Irkuts plant???

India won't purchase the Su-35, they are quite happy with their Su-30MKI and there would be no reason to purchase the Su-35. Some of the technologies might be implemented as upgrades, however. There are suggestions for introducing the Irbis on the Su-35 for example.

 

[hellfire]

India won't purchase the Su-35, they are quite happy with their Su-30MKI and there would be no reason to purchase the Su-35. Some of the technologies might be implemented as upgrades, however. There are suggestions for introducing the Irbis on the Su-35 for example.

exactly,the NIIP is offering to upgrade the BARS radar in stage1 with more power,and in stage 2 with AESA upgrade.and in future may be around 2020 probably get a engine upgrade as well.those are the only major advantages the SU-35 has.

 

[Haavarla]

exactly,the NIIP is offering to upgrade the BARS radar in stage1 with more power,and in stage 2 with AESA upgrade.and in future may be around 2020 probably get a engine upgrade as well.those are the only major advantages the SU-35 has.

Thanks for the input hellfire.
Do you have a link on that?

What about the new flight control system witch incorperate the TVC system, like the one on Su-35.
More info on the new flight control system here:

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=160492&postcount=186

Will the Su-30MKI aquire those too?

Are all the new features R&D by KNAAPO shared with IRKUT as well?

 

[Crusader2000]

How do you know it hasn't been ordered officially? Zelin clearly stated that 2-3 regiments would be purchased.

How do you know they did??? Secondly, what would be the point of ordering Su-35's secret??? Especially, when Russia is despratly tying to export the type.........

Actually plenty has happened, and at this point plenty more is being kept under wraps. If you'd like to look at T-90A deployments, Iskander deployments, etc. you will note that significant numbers have been deployed.


Really, it would hardly be in the interests of the Russian Government or Sukhoi to keep a RuAF Order for Su-35's under wraps.........Common Sense!



Of course it (serial production) hasn't started. The date has been given as 2011 for quite some time now. Check the calendar. It's 2009.

You can't start production without a contract. Unless you think Sokhoi plans on building them for free.

 

[Crusader2000]

Are you claiming Zelin and Sukhoi officials for liars?

Exactly what kind of "evidence do you require, except serial production?

An E-mail from Sukhoi director perhaps?


Well, was the Russian Officials that claimed the ex-Gorshkov was to be delivered to India on time and budget liars!


Russia is very good about what it claims its going to do.............as has been the case with the Su-35. As over and over Russian Officials claim this or that......Which, don't seem to materialize??? You are the on the otherhand want to take mere statements as fact. I personally (especially) in the case of Russian. Prefer to verify with hard facts.............Like actually signing a contract for the world to see.

 

[Haavarla]

Like actually signing a contract for the world to see.

Again, the world dosen't have to see all the contract signed within the military..

I'm trying to understand your isue on this matter Crusader?

Do you really think Sukhoi are stupid and go ahead with expensive development of the Su-35 if there are no byers??

No sane manufactors would do this, especially when Sukhoi are developing the PAK-FA and others programs.. why use time/enegry/resources on the Su-35 then?

Again logic dictates on this matter.. have a little fait wont you

I'm aware of the many BS articles on the net, claiming all sorts of things,
i'll give you that!
But it's fairly easy to sort out the inacurrate/false article out there.

The fact that the Russian DoD and RuAF dont use the same procedures/media/channels that the westen counterparts do on signing contracts, doesn't change a thing here..

 

[Feanor]

Crusader the Su-34 production has been kept under wraps quite thoroughly. Same goes for S-400 production. We know it's in production. We know it's being delivered to troops. We have no idea how many, or what contracts have been signed.

The same could be the case for the Su-35. Not to mention that... Su-35BM production most likely HAS NOT started because a production variant is STILL BEING FINALIZED. Do you not understand that the airplane in question is still in development?

As for production without a contract, sometimes plants produce weapons in anticipation of future orders, or when future orders are extremely likely. Simple example, when China ordered Su-30MK2 fighters with an option for more, KnAAPO produced the aircraft for the option before China chose to do the option. In the end China didn't do the option, and the Flankers for Venezuela were the ones that were originally meant for China.

 

[Viktor]

Well, was the Russian Officials that claimed the ex-Gorshkov was to be delivered to India on time and budget liars!

India has expirienced increased in weapons price already bought from western countries as well in the same maner Russians did it ...

 

[SkolZkiy]

India has expirienced increased in weapons price already bought from western countries as well in the same maner Russians did it ...

Except Gorshkov order there are no such examples =) So don't make a tragedy from this - from the beginning the price was too low

 

[Crusader2000]

India has expirienced increased in weapons price already bought from western countries as well in the same maner Russians did it ...

Russia is now asking something like three times the original price for the ex-Gorshkov with a several year delay...........Sorry, Russia credibility with the ex-Gorshkov and Su-35 is lacking to say the least!nfloorl:

 

[Crusader2000]

Again, the world dosen't have to see all the contract signed within the military..

I'm trying to understand your isue on this matter Crusader?

Do you really think Sukhoi are stupid and go ahead with expensive development of the Su-35 if there are no byers??

No sane manufactors would do this, especially when Sukhoi are developing the PAK-FA and others programs.. why use time/enegry/resources on the Su-35 then?

Again logic dictates on this matter.. have a little fait wont you

I'm aware of the many BS articles on the net, claiming all sorts of things,
i'll give you that!
But it's fairly easy to sort out the inacurrate/false article out there.

The fact that the Russian DoD and RuAF dont use the same procedures/media/channels that the westen counterparts do on signing contracts, doesn't change a thing here..

The simple fact is Russia has not signed a contract for Su-35's.......Even if or when it does so. It will likely be a small order in hopes of fueling some export sales for the type. The RuAF naturally wants the PAK-FA instead....

 

[Haavarla]

The simple fact is Russia has not signed a contract for Su-35's.......Even if or when it does so. It will likely be a small order in hopes of fueling some export sales for the type. The RuAF naturally wants the PAK-FA instead....

Simply not so..
The Su-35 will be a great intermidiate platform until the PAK-FA enter service, and possible even longer.

Fine, you may downplay RuAF procurment of the Su-35 all you want.
It wont matter, in time the Su-35 will enter service.
But it could be just 1 regiment instead of 2-3 regiment, only time will tell.

 

[Crusader2000]

Simply not so..
The Su-35 will be a great intermidiate platform until the PAK-FA enter service, and possible even longer.

Fine, you may downplay RuAF procurment of the Su-35 all you want.
It wont matter, in time the Su-35 will enter service.
But it could be just 1 regiment instead of 2-3 regiment, only time will tell.

Russia claimed it was going to order Su-35's as far back as 2004, then again in 2007, and now its 2009..........So, the longer they wait what's the point? As the PAK-FA's would just be around the corner. Further, as many have pointed out. Upgraded Su-27's would be more than capable as a stop-gap! Personally, in my opinion if the RuAF does ever get the Su-35. It would just be a small number to supposedly help fuel export of the type..........


Regardless, my point has nothing to do with the capabilities of the Russian Fighter. As its extremely potent fighter................Yet, that doesn't automatically translate into a large market for it.

 

[Viktor]

The simple fact is Russia has not signed a contract for Su-35's.......Even if or when it does so. It will likely be a small order in hopes of fueling some export sales for the type. The RuAF naturally wants the PAK-FA instead....

Su-35BM/Su-27SM/PAK-FA and that of MIGs 5th generation (that will come in time) will complement each other ...

Russia does not have money to buy 500 PAK-FA nor does it need them in such quantities ... entire EU will have at most F-35 so I expect Russia to field some Su-35BM but no PAK-FA that will most likely go to Siberia on China border ...

 

[Viktor]

Regardless, my point has nothing to do with the capabilities of the Russian Fighter. As its extremely potent fighter................Yet, that doesn't automatically translate into a large market for it.

Politics and bribe determen extend of the market so you can bet Russia will allways have potent market for its toys.

 

[Crusader2000]

Su-35BM/Su-27SM/PAK-FA and that of MIGs 5th generation (that will come in time) will complement each other ...

Russia does not have money to buy 500 PAK-FA nor does it need them in such quantities ... entire EU will have at most F-35 so I expect Russia to field some Su-35BM but no PAK-FA that will most likely go to Siberia on China border ...

I very much doubt the RuAF Leadership would agree with your assessment. Really, with the advent of the F-22 and F-35. The Su-35 is near obsolete and a waste of Russian Resources. Which, explains why they have yet to place an order..............The PAK-FA is Russia's future.............anything is a waste. IMO

 

[Viktor]

I very much doubt the RuAF Leadership would agree with your assessment. Really, with the advent of the F-22 and F-35. The Su-35 is near obsolete and a waste of Russian Resources. Which, explains why they have yet to place an order..............The PAK-FA is Russia's future.............anything is a waste. IMO

Su-35 and MIG-35 make foreign equivavelts of Rafale/Typhoon/Gripen/F-16/16/18/J-10 etc.... witch corently made 99.99999% of worlds airforce .. so your statement that Su-35BM is obsolite is childish to say at least.

F-22 future is under question after only 200 of them will be produced .. while F-35 will go in the production about at same time as PAK-FA (and Indian version) so .... EU is not gona develop 5th generation so there is no need to panic ... there is plenty of time ....

 

[Haavarla]

Su-35 and MIG-35 make foreign equivavelts of Rafale/Typhoon/Gripen/F-16/16/18/J-10 etc.... witch corently made 99.99999% of worlds airforce .. so your statement that Su-35BM is obsolite is childish to say at least.

F-22 future is under question after only 200 of them will be produced .. while F-35 will go in the production about at same time as PAK-FA (and Indian version) so .... EU is not gona develop 5th generation so there is no need to panic ... there is plenty of time ....

That follows Viktor, besides how fast can Russia put out the PAK-FA?
Clearly Russia would bennefit from the Su-35 until they have the PAK-FA in numbers.. one can just speculate when that will be..

 

[Crusader2000]

Su-35 and MIG-35 make foreign equivavelts of Rafale/Typhoon/Gripen/F-16/16/18/J-10 etc.... witch corently made 99.99999% of worlds airforce .. so your statement that Su-35BM is obsolite is childish to say at least.

The Su-35 is just as obsolete to the Raptor. As the P-51D or FW-190D was to the Me-262 or P-80..........I stand by my statement!

F-22 future is under question after only 200 of them will be produced .. while F-35 will go in the production about at same time as PAK-FA (and Indian version) so .... EU is not gona develop 5th generation so there is no need to panic ... there is plenty of time ....

The F-35 is already in production and the PAK-FA is yet to even fly. So, I really doubt it will be available anytime soon. Also, with the F-22 already in service and the F-35 on the verge. I would think Russia would be in a hurry! Also, its just one more reason to not waste time on the Su-35..........As its not an effective counter to either of the American 5th Generation Fighters.