Unofficial rumors there are about 100 KIA in russian regular forces, up to 400 KIA for ossetians and ~ 500 WIA from both russian and ossetian forces in Vladikavkaz hospital. Rumors said the relative low ratio of WIA / KIA is attributed to deliberately executed russian peace keepers and especially ossetians militia in initial phase, and also initial problems to evacuate wounded.
Russia-Georgia Conflict: News From the War zone
- Thread starter Feanor
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It is strange that there is no wider coverage of this. Unless of course you're running a well-designed cyber war and controlling the flow of information. Admittedly, that's speculation on my part. Apologies in advance of the moderators. However, taking a capital ship out of the fight is a significant event. Assuming it's true, and I don't know that for sure, this could be an indication of how effective the Russians were at keeping information dominance.Yes, but the answer to the question is binary and not easy to hide.
-DA
Grand Danois
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If the MOSKVA was hit and the Georgians were aware, they would be trumpeting it all over the place. And AFAIK they haven't. OTOH if true, it could possibly been an OTH shot (I think it is a BAND STAND or similar) on that Tblisi boat), and the visual range fight was with the pickets and not the flag ship.It is strange that there is no wider coverage of this. Unless of course you're running a well-designed cyber war and controlling the flow of information. Admittedly, that's speculation on my part. Apologies in advance of the moderators. However, taking a capital ship out of the fight is a significant event. Assuming it's true, and I don't know that for sure, this could be an indication of how effective the Russians were at keeping information dominance.
-DA
Note that if kept in the dark, the first reports would be from the sailors arriving back at Sebastopol.
If true, then note also the psychological element of not admitting to any Georgian success whilst the fighting is going on. It instills a feeling of hopelessness and futility if you cannot touch the enemy and the reverse if you have success.
Russia need only delay such news a few days.
Apparently this thing is expanding as Russian Navy has ignored Ukranian president legal orders.
also virtual not real.http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080813/116019514.html
Four Russian naval ships return to Crimea from Abkhazia coast-2
Commenting on the decree later on Wednesday, Komoyedov said the Russian Navy is not duty-bound to follow the orders of the Ukrainian president.
"Russia's Black Sea Fleet is subordinate to the Russian naval commander and the commander-in-chief. It is beyond Mr. Yushchenko's jurisdiction to give orders to a Russian navy," he said.
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080813/116020741.html
Sergei Lavrov also said Washington has to choose between cooperation with Russia and Georgian leaders who he described as a "virtual project" for the United States.
Dont pay too much attention to what Ukrainian president tells or orders. He told and even legally ordered all kinds of nonsense in the past, and most of it didnt lead anywhere in practical terms. Only if all 3 major Ukrainian parties (named above) agreed to something - then it could lead to something real and legal.Apparently this thing is expanding as Russian Navy has ignored Ukranian president legal orders.
also virtual not real.
P.S. Russian MOD repeatedly talks about Ukrainian SA-11 and S-15. Well, SA-11 were there without a doubt. But SA-15 (Tor-1)? I thought Ukraina (Georgia more so) didnt have them? Where they could acquire it? Or it is again wrong understood briefing?
No they haven't-the 10 o'clock BBC news and Newsnight here in the UK both showed pictures their reporters took on the ground of a Russian Column heading from Gori towards Tiblisi, and it turning off into fields along the way. Whatever the Russian Army was doing along that road, they are now somewhere in the countryside between Gori and Tiblisi, and good go anywhere.Rumors of a Russian tank column moving towards Tbilisi have been overturned by both sides.
The BBC also showed pictures of a US C-17 landing in Tiblisi, unloading troops and supplies for the humanitarian mission, and one of their reporters was imbedded with a Russian Patrol in South Ossetia. What was a slow start to coverage of the conflict in the UK due to the focus on the Olympics, the BBC seems to be not so far behiind at the moment.
Would be very hard to train & maintain, so will be either cheaply sold to users already in possession of similar systems or outright used for trials.I wonder what captured systems or sub systems would be useful to Russia? We have to consider westerb equipment were used to enhance the largely soviet equiped army.
I expect most will be turned over to seperatist allies.
I expect most of it will be destroyed/disabled on the spot. What the Russians are doing is not to capture equipment to make a profit or to better their own Army, but to destroy Georgian Military equipment before they leave Georgia and hence (hopefully) prevent further attack. The most expedient way of doing this is to destroy equipment on the spot. If they have time they will sieze stuff as 'war prizes' take it home and chew over it, test it, etc-but don't expect it to be large quantities of equipment.I wonder what captured systems or sub systems would be useful to Russia? We have to consider western equipment were used to enhance the largely soviet equiped army.
Captured weapons and booty is a by product of the conflict. Russia has been stripping bases, this serves in preventing future attacks. It would be stupid to destroy everything. Georgian troops have rapidly retreated or deserted, most likely lot of equipment has not been destroyed. Also they will analyse captured equipment to see if they have been modified by western technology. As like you said to want to test them out to see the advantages these systems have. My speculation would be more valid, if I knew exactly what technology was provided by the west. Russia says Israel sold 200 million dollars worth of military goods including drones. For example, if Russia can get hold of some intact drones they will have access to advanced optics, at moment I know they have shot down many.I expect most of it will be destroyed/disabled on the spot. What the Russians are doing is not to capture equipment to make a profit or to better their own Army, but to destroy Georgian Military equipment before they leave Georgia and hence (hopefully) prevent further attack. The most expedient way of doing this is to destroy equipment on the spot. If they have time they will sieze stuff as 'war prizes' take it home and chew over it, test it, etc-but don't expect it to be large quantities of equipment.
We also have to consider the Georgian capability to conduct BDA over a threat SAG operating OTH would be really limited and the Russians would certainly exploit that.If the MOSKVA was hit and the Georgians were aware, they would be trumpeting it all over the place. And AFAIK they haven't. OTOH if true, it could possibly been an OTH shot (I think it is a BAND STAND or similar) on that Tblisi boat), and the visual range fight was with the pickets and not the flag ship.
Note that if kept in the dark, the first reports would be from the sailors arriving back at Sebastopol.
If true, then note also the psychological element of not admitting to any Georgian success whilst the fighting is going on. It instills a feeling of hopelessness and futility if you cannot touch the enemy and the reverse if you have success.
Russia need only delay such news a few days.
-DA
As much as i know, there were nothing exceptional in Georgian equipment what really require studying. Even Israel UAV's are not classified stuff.Captured weapons and booty is a by product of the conflict. Russia has been stripping bases, this serves in preventing future attacks. It would be stupid to destroy everything. Georgian troops have rapidly retreated or deserted, most likely lot of equipment has not been destroyed. Also they will analyse captured equipment to see if they have been modified by western technology. As like you said to want to test them out to see the advantages these systems have. My speculation would be more valid, if I knew exactly what technology was provided by the west. Russia says Israel sold 200 million dollars worth of military goods including drones. For example, if Russia can get hold of some intact drones they will have access to advanced optics, at moment I know they have shot down many.
We don't, thats the point. I am only speculating but we all understand militaries are secretive by nature. I am more interested in the upgrades purchased and equipment like electronics which unlike tank or plane purchases do not recieve widespread media attention.As much as i know, there were nothing exceptional in Georgian equipment what really require studying. Even Israel UAV's are not classified stuff.
My friend, alot of this technology is every where and for a price you can get it, at least the stuff Georgia had on hand, if Russia is looting military installations it is most likely going to the friends that needed them to come to the rescue. Also even though that you do pick something up that is a good find worth keeping then you have to see if you have the industrial base to produce it and at what cost it is going to be for you, will it bring great benefits, will you be able to augument it with your other systems.Captured weapons and booty is a by product of the conflict. Russia has been stripping bases, this serves in preventing future attacks. It would be stupid to destroy everything. Georgian troops have rapidly retreated or deserted, most likely lot of equipment has not been destroyed. Also they will analyse captured equipment to see if they have been modified by western technology. As like you said to want to test them out to see the advantages these systems have. My speculation would be more valid, if I knew exactly what technology was provided by the west. Russia says Israel sold 200 million dollars worth of military goods including drones. For example, if Russia can get hold of some intact drones they will have access to advanced optics, at moment I know they have shot down many.
Did you know that alot of their tactical radios compare to Singars, and yes they did get the radios with other communication equipment from the U.S.We also have to consider the Georgian capability to conduct BDA over a threat SAG operating OTH would be really limited and the Russians would certainly exploit that.
-DA
I would expect Georgian battle comms to be at very good level, comparable to most NATO members. I'm pretty sure russian troops deployed were had 1-2 generations behind equipment. This of course doesnt meant what Georgian electronic is of much interest to russians - it is pretty standard level.Did you know that alot of their tactical radios compare to Singars, and yes they did get the radios with other communication equipment from the U.S.
I will find it interesting to see if and how Russia managed to jam them.I would expect Georgian battle comms to be at very good level, comparable to most NATO members. I'm pretty sure russian troops deployed were had 1-2 generations behind equipment. This of course doesnt meant what Georgian electronic is of much interest to russians - it is pretty standard level.
Grand Danois
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Yes, thats what i alluded too. Obviously my convoluted style of writing makes it a bit unclear.We also have to consider the Georgian capability to conduct BDA over a threat SAG operating OTH would be really limited and the Russians would certainly exploit that.
-DA
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