Russia-Georgia Conflict: News From the War zone

[Grand Danois]

If it took a hit from an exocet one would assume the bottom of the Black Sea.

No. It is a big ship (11,490 tons full load) and Exocet is not that big a missile. USS Stark and an IDF Saar 5 survived missile hits, just as USS Cole survived a VIED.

http://flot.sevastopol.info/eng/ship/cruisers/slava.htm

 

[Grand Danois]

What is your source for that? Only naval action that's been confirmed is the sinking of a Georgian ship by the Russians.

I added a link before you replied. I'm just trying to find out if she has been spotted so we can find out if it is true.

 

[nevidimka]

Both Russia and Georgia were fighting with T-72B1 model tanks with early Russian generation ERA packages which have made it very confusing on what belongs to who on the battlefield, I would like to read the Russian and Georgian after action reports if they ever become public to see how they handled the fracticide issue. APS that I cannot see.

When I 1st saw the videos of Georgian tanks with their ERA's and gunner shield which didn't look so Russian, I thought it was because they were upgraded by western, Ukrainian tech.

SO when I saw the same gunner shield on the Russian tank pic.. I got confused. Even the T90 doesn't have gunner shield protection like on that russian T-72!


And I think The Russians used heavy electronic,cyber warfare to completely overwhelm the Georgians, which gives credence to their panicking and running away towards Tbilisi.

 

[Chrom]

Did the MOSKVA take a hit from a Termit/Exocet missile(s) during the battle with Georgian missile boats? Where is the MOSKVA now?

http://www.informationdissemination.blogspot.com/

This is "face saving" rumors from Georgian side. In the realms of 500 russian tanks destroyed, etc.

While i cant be 100% sure, but it seems there were no such event. After 3 day we would know it almost for sure. Moreover, official version of russion MOD is Georgian boats were sunk with artillery. Plus, of course, vessels which were sunked werent equipped with ASM, let alone Exocet.

 

[eckherl]

I asked because I never seen it before, until this conflict. This feature must only be on Soviet tanks because Russia and Georgia both have this feature?!

Note the picture I have circled the area I thought might be Thermal scope but it is not.

That is actually a independant searchlight that the gunner can use with either white light or with a IR lense which comes in handy when using IR goggles. Here is a better view.

 

[Burunsuzoglu]

No T-80`s were involved in this conflict, the tanks in the photo are all T-72 model Bs, this unit most likely was in the process of going to the K5 upgrade before their big exercise that they were involved in prior to hostilities breaking out.

Are you sure, the closer I look at the slope on the turret the more doubts I have, any way we can have a closer look at the extractor?

Has anyone heard what's happened to the Russian column heading south from Gori?

 

[eckherl]

It could be an utter nightmare to sort out IMV. The Russians aren't very keen on combat operations at night either which could add to the confusion. Look at the times of the major offensives. Daytime. The pilots on both sides would also have their hands full. Kind of reminds me of doing force on force at places like Irwin where the "Krasnovians" have "T-80's" which somehow manage to look like Abrams minus the side skirts, 55 Gal drums welded to the back deck and cammo nets rolled up along the gun tube. Surprisingly effective Vis Mod BUT in the heat of things it's not hard to make a mistake at distance. After all, an M1 is an M1 when you are in a hurry. Similarly a T-72, is a T-72.

CNN has an embed with the Russian armor unit IVO Tbilisi. I'm sure there will be plenty of film we can go over coming soon. The fact that a CNN embed is rolling with the Russians is both news worth and militarily significant by itself!

Also fascinating is the coordinated Cyber attacks and Airstrikes by the Russian Air Force against Georgian communications links to the outside world.

-DA

Yes - Russia had its act together in the Cyber warfare category, as soon as I heard that there was a communications blackout on the Georgians side I knew it was all over for them, they were in utter confusion after the first few hours when the Russians entered the picture. They lost their shoot, move and communicate abilities.

 

[Grand Danois]

This is "face saving" rumors from Georgian side. In the realms of 500 russian tanks destroyed, etc.

While i cant be 100% sure, but it seems there were no such event. After 3 day we would know it almost for sure. Moreover, official version of russion MOD is Georgian boats were sunk with artillery. Plus, of course, vessels which were sunked werent equipped with ASM, let alone Exocet.

But the source is not the Georgians, but apparently an Ukrainian interview with a Russian sailor.

http://www.kpunews.com/main_topic11_14200.html

 

[Burunsuzoglu]

But the source is not the Georgians, but apparently an Ukrainian interview with a Russian sailor.

http://www.kpunews.com/main_topic11_14200.html

Let face it the Ukrainians are hardly likely to favour the Russians, weren't they threatening to turn away any vessel that took part in combat?

 

[Grand Danois]

Let face it the Ukrainians are hardly likely to favour the Russians, weren't they threatening to turn away any vessel that took part in combat?

Yes, but the answer to the question is binary and not easy to hide.

 

[Galrahn]

This is "face saving" rumors from Georgian side. In the realms of 500 russian tanks destroyed, etc.

While i cant be 100% sure, but it seems there were no such event. After 3 day we would know it almost for sure. Moreover, official version of russion MOD is Georgian boats were sunk with artillery. Plus, of course, vessels which were sunked werent equipped with ASM, let alone Exocet.

Chrom,

I think my credibility on this forum on naval discussions has been long established. I just put up a new article on the battle as detailed by a Russian sailor interviewed after his return to Sevastopol, less speculative than the earlier one being discussed but similar details. It is front page news in Ukraine and I linked it, and another news article in Russia with the same story.

The Moskva has been reported as taking damage in battle in both Ukrainian and and Russian news by those Georgian coastals.

 

[Chrom]

But the source is not the Georgians, but apparently an Ukrainian interview with a Russian sailor.

http://www.kpunews.com/main_topic11_14200.html

The Ukrainians have 3 strong fractions:

1. Radical anti-Russian (i cant even call them pro-West really, may be pro-US) minority which literally hate russians. They are partially represented in government, Ukrainian president is one of them. Very strong representation in current MVD, MOD, security forces command, some medians.

2. Much less radical pro-West relative practical, relative large fraction. They just want better life and think West will help with it and can protect them against Russian influence. These mostly only cares about they money. Premier-minister Timoshenko is one of them. If Russia become rich and powerful enough they will bend to russian side immediately.

3. Large fraction of russian supporters due cultural reason. Formally, represented by large Yanukovich party, but the later is in fact more in between 2nd and 3rd camp.

"Smaller" medians and regional elite is also very different, large East areas mostly pro-russian, central regions are mixed, some relative small West areas
are anti-russians.

As such, there is all kind of propaganda now in Ukrainian medians - ranging from Saakashvilli propaganda nonsense to russian propaganda point of view. They dont have independent sources, so everything they write is either cross-posting or pure fantasy.

P.S. Would you give me link to russian news please?

P.P.S. In that article there is nothing about Georgian missiles fired. I think even IF such indecent took place, cruiser could be damaged by artillery.

 

[Grand Danois]

Chrom,

I aware of the split in Ukraine, however such a report can dismissed or confirmed quite easily - as opposed to tank losses. That's why I enquired into if anyone had noticed it returning to Sebastopol.

Btw, They do have Exocets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dioskuria.jpg

 

[Galrahn]

Russian news reports 4 ships returned to Sevastopol. Article here in English.

 

[Burunsuzoglu]

Chrom,

I aware of the split in Ukraine, however such a report can dismissed or confirmed quite easily - as opposed to tank losses. That's why I enquired into if anyone had noticed it returning to Sebastopol.

Btw, They do have Exocets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dioskuria.jpg

Their vessels are french so it would make sense.

 

[Grand Danois]

Russian news reports 4 ships returned to Sevastopol. Article here in English.

Don't know if that picture is archive material, but I don't think MOSKVA is among them. Those SS-N-12 Sandbox launchers are quite distinct.

 

[Feanor]

A few more updates. Georgia claims 40 destroyed Russian tank. Georgian official casualties are numbered at 175 dead. Unofficially witnesses report much higher. Official Russian casualties are 74 dead, unoficially are considered much higher. Georgia claims 19 downed Russian aircraft, Russia admits to losing 4. From 2-6 Georgia aircraft were destroyed. Also Russian forces were reported " evacuating" captured Georgian military supplies from bases in Georgia proper. Finally only recently two Georgian UAV's were shot down over the conflict zone. Rumors of a Russian tank column moving towards Tbilisi have been overturned by both sides.

 

[Galrahn]

Don't know if that picture is archive material, but I don't think MOSKVA is among them. Those SS-N-12 Sandbox launchers are quite distinct.

Picture is bogus, it is from the Black Sea Fleet Parade earlier this year.

The 3 alligators and an unnamed missile boat were reportedly the ships that returned.

 

[eckherl]

Are you sure, the closer I look at the slope on the turret the more doubts I have, any way we can have a closer look at the extractor?

Has anyone heard what's happened to the Russian column heading south from Gori?

Here you go,

Compare both diagram pictures, shaded area`s represent weak points in armor protection when up against hand held anti tank devices. The bore evacuator would be in the same location because they use the same gun, 125mm even though there is different models for this gun.

Apparently they turned off when they were 10 km away from Gori.

 

[Chrom]

Chrom,

I aware of the split in Ukraine, however such a report can dismissed or confirmed quite easily - as opposed to tank losses. That's why I enquired into if anyone had noticed it returning to Sebastopol.

]

Thats why i dont believe any ASM fired. 3 days and there are still no reports of it in any credible medians? And vaguer rumor in single Ukrainian internet-portal, which writes all kinds of nonsense?