Russia - General Discussion.

[Beltrami2005]

Let's bring this back on point. I think it's clear there are difference in culture and mentality between Russia and many European countries. I also think these differences are bigger between Russia and Spain than between France and Spain. But I think we're looking at a gradation far more than a clear single line difference. Certainly Russia and Ukraine in terms of culture and mentality are extremely close, far more so then even France and Spain, never mind Ukraine and any western European country. There is no single unified "European" culture or mentality. It's a large continent, whose borders (depending on who you ask) might even include a piece of north-western Kazakhstan, and certainly include at least part of the Caucus mountains. Abkhaz farmers in the depth of the Georgian Caucuses are European, blood feuds notwithstanding. Gatekeeping attempts to define who "counts" as European and who doesn't are old, and have an ugly history. They're an unproductive way of looking at the situation, and are generally a part of the ideological framework and propaganda apparatus of various entities rather than an objective attempt to categorize peoples and nations.

I had a teacher who defined it quite good. Core europe is basicly the Roman Empire. Italy, France, Greece, Spain, Portugal. Then you have the inner periphery UK and Germany. Its crazy in Germany because the western part west of the rhine was roman and you feel this divide even today in mentality, culture and way of thinking. Then onwards the further you go the more its losing that core europe mentality. Ukraine has a long greek and ottoman history and closer connection to rome than the the mongol horde. It was always split in that regard. Now if you take russia it has some european civilisation pockets mostly in St Petersburg and Moscow, mostly because Catherine the Great who was german and brought some sort of enlightenment and civilisation there but it never took hold in the population at large scale. Even in 19th century the majority of russians were peasants like like 500 years behind.

Europe as a concept has no hard borders but is fuzzy at its rim. And that fuzziness is not just in area but also time.

My own country Spain is a prime example for that, we have incredible old customs that predate written history. Some aspects like Mari and Basajaun can be traced back to 35.000 years.

 

[swerve]

Just checked, out if curiosity, travel advisories on the Canadian government website. ... advisory for Spain is to “exercise high degree of caution”, same as India, Jamaica, Honduras, etc. So not all green in paradise, it appears.

Is that why Spain is the preferred spot for the Russian organized Crime to set up shop, in spite of occasional (every few years) raids by the Spanish law enforcement?

The reason given by the Canadian government is -

Spain - Exercise a high degree of caution

Exercise a high degree of caution in Spain due to the threat of terrorism.

Which seems odd.

The British government's only special warning for Spain is of travel disruption after the rail crash 5 days ago. Spain is generally a very safe country (a third of Canada's homicide rate, lower than most of Europe), & is exceeded only by France in its number of foreign tourists.

Aha! It says the same for several European countries, e.g. France, Italy, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands & the UK. So it's not specific to Spain. Because of Russia, maybe?

Context, context, context.

 

[Beltrami2005]

The reason given by the Canadian government is -


Which seems odd.

The British government's only special warning for Spain is of travel disruption after the rail crash 5 days ago. Spain is generally a very safe country (a third of Canada's homicide rate, lower than most of Europe), & is exceeded only by France in its number of foreign tourists.

Aha! It says the same for several European countries, e.g. France, Italy, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands & the UK. So it's not specific to Spain. Because of Russia, maybe?

Context, context, context.

Agree and we have indication that russia seeks people to comitt terrorism in europe. We now even know that the Independence scam in catalonia was heavily funded by russia.

 

[crest]

I had a teacher who defined it quite good. Core europe is basicly the Roman Empire. Italy, France, Greece, Spain, Portugal. Then you have the inner periphery UK and Germany. Its crazy in Germany because the western part west of the rhine was roman and you feel this divide even today in mentality, culture and way of thinking. Then onwards the further you go the more its losing that core europe mentality. Ukraine has a long greek and ottoman history and closer connection to rome than the the mongol horde. It was always split in that regard. Now if you take russia it has some european civilisation pockets mostly in St Petersburg and Moscow, mostly because Catherine the Great who was german and brought some sort of enlightenment and civilisation there but it never took hold in the population at large scale. Even in 19th century the majority of russians were peasants like like 500 years behind.

Europe as a concept has no hard borders but is fuzzy at its rim. And that fuzziness is not just in area but also time.

My own country Spain is a prime example for that, we have incredible old customs that predate written history. Some aspects like Mari and Basajaun can be traced back to 35.000 years.

If your talking territory yes tho I guess the limit there is by how you chose do define it. One could easy say the tectonic plate is what defines Europe. Personaly I go with religion trade and treaty pacts. As despite cultural differences the similarities if close enough to form those ties are usually strong enough to allow great intermingling and therefore shared culture.

If your talking society norms then definitely not the Roman Empire. Not to take away from the legacy they have left. But Europe today is not as a society the Roman Empire. It was a highly militaristic society not very big on human rights (unless your Roman). And very for a lack of a better word masculine in its accepted social behaviors. Violence was as much of a virtue as logic and reason in romen society

It's just a pet peave I have that most people who think there country is like rome don't realize rome would have put them to the sword and made slaves of them for no other reason then the weakness they seen in there society. In fact I would say Russia has a view more Roman sence of social norms then say Spain but it's a false analysis as of course neither are romen

 

[Beltrami2005]

If your talking territory yes tho I guess the limit there is by how you chose do define it. One could easy say the tectonic plate is what defines Europe. Personaly I go with religion trade and treaty pacts. As despite cultural differences the similarities if close enough to form those ties are usually strong enough to allow great intermingling and therefore shared culture.

If your talking society norms then definitely not the Roman Empire. Not to take away from the legacy they have left. But Europe today is not as a society the Roman Empire. It was a highly militaristic society not very big on human rights (unless your Roman). And very for a lack of a better word masculine in its accepted social behaviors. Violence was as much of a virtue as logic and reason in romen society

It's just a pet peave I have that most people who think there country is like rome don't realize rome would have put them to the sword and made slaves of them for no other reason then the weakness they seen in there society. In fact I would say Russia has a view more Roman sence of social norms then say Spain but it's a false analysis as of course neither are romen

You dont know Spain. Thats the problem. Look at our history and notice we peaked Rome on all the points you mentioned. I think Russia would not have been able to do the Conquista even today. Do you believe "violence" is a concept alien for us? One of the most violent sports is a core symbol in our nation, bull fighting. Russia appears quite effeminate for us, since it attacks weaker countries ...and loses.

 

[crest]

You dont know Spain. Thats the problem. Look at our history and notice we peaked Rome on all the points you mentioned. I think Russia would not have been able to do the Conquista even today. Do you believe "violence" is a concept alien for us? One of the most violent sports is a core symbol in our nation, bull fighting. Russia appears quite effeminate for us, since it attacks weaker countries ...and loses.

If soane was romen in culture and supported Ukraine they would be fighting in Ukraine. Full stop
And the acceptance of violence e is a far cry from the actual doing of it. In Rome for example you worked all week to spend you money on watching slaves murder eachother in close combat. This was fine this was normal. The idea of decimation in a army was accepted (if very very rare). But this was idea if you retreat in battle every tenth man gets beat to death by the other 9. It's a question of will the two societies are far apart yo would never hear in Europe for example "crush the skulls of there children under your sandals"
It's not a insult to say one isn't romen it's more a comment on those who think they are that perhaps they have no idea what Rome was or that most likely they would be enslaved by that culture simply because they would be considered weak. Rome had some great things about it but make no mistake it was a brutal society and proud of it. Truth is I don't think there is any countries in the west that have the stomach to be romen. Slavery and genocide were the norms of the day

 

[Beltrami2005]

If soane was romen in culture and supported Ukraine they would be fighting in Ukraine. Full stop
And the acceptance of violence e is a far cry from the actual doing of it. In Rome for example you worked all week to spend you money on watching slaves murder eachother in close combat. This was fine this was normal. The idea of decimation in a army was accepted (if very very rare). But this was idea if you retreat in battle every tenth man gets beat to death by the other 9. It's a question of will the two societies are far apart yo would never hear in Europe for example "crush the skulls of there children under your sandals"
It's not a insult to say one isn't romen it's more a comment on those who think they are that perhaps they have no idea what Rome was or that most likely they would be enslaved by that culture simply because they would be considered weak. Rome had some great things about it but make no mistake it was a brutal society and proud of it. Truth is I don't think there is any countries in the west that have the stomach to be romen. Slavery and genocide were the norms of the day

You totally get it wrong. Talking is never violence. Violance is always an act. Spain always used nice words to do things Russia could never.

You dont know Spain, its amazing. How you think we conquered the americas? Do you believe we cuddled the Inka to death? Do you think the Aztecs were hugged into complete destruction? How you think we mined in Potosí? Its estimated 2 million people died in the silver mines there. The spanish empire used slavery and violence on a scale you cant imagine. Our ancestors first burned through the natives who could not survive the harsh work in the mines and when they were none anymore, they brought in africans who succumbed under the high altitude. Spain erased countless peoples from this planet.

And guess what? We have documentations here in spanish TV and its celebrated. There is no shame.

As for Ukraine, we dont need to fight in Ukraine because Russia is weak enough that this can be handled as proxy war. The roman empire used similar tactics in its day. If Russia were a threat for Europe, we would join. But so far it looks like Ukraine can handle it alone.

 

[crest]

I'm not speaking against Spain here I'm just saying it's not culturaly Rome those who think it is don't know Rome. Personaly I don't like slavery or genocide. The only insult if it is one one is pointing out that support for a war without actually fighting in it and claiming Roman culture is not a very accurate representation of Roman culture.
Spain is a amazing place with lots of history and as far as I know a great culture. Then again I also think Russia is a fascinating culture.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SuccessionTV/comments/17jst97
I know it's Reddit but this is the extent of Roman slavery they stopped a law to require slaves from wereing different colored yoga's on the fear they would realize how outnumbered romens were and revolt

 

[Beltrami2005]

I'm not speaking against Spain here I'm just saying it's not culturaly Rome those who think it is don't know Rome. Personaly I don't like slavery or genocide. The only insult if it is one one is pointing out that support for a war without actually fighting in it and claiming Roman culture is not a very accurate representation of Roman culture.
Spain is a amazing place with lots of history and as far as I know a great culture. Then again I also think Russia is a fascinating culture.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SuccessionTV/comments/17jst97
I know it's Reddit but this is the extent of Roman slavery they stopped a law to require slaves from wereing different colored yoga's on the fear they would realize how outnumbered romens were and revolt

I ask again, are you aware about the scale of slavery we had in the americas? Are you aware about Potosí ect? Do you know how crazy it is to have 2.000.000 slaves die at 6000m altitude in the Andes?

 

[crest]

I ask again, are you aware about the scale of slavery we had in the americas? Are you aware about Potosí ect? Do you know how crazy it is to have 2.000.000 slaves die at 6000m altitude in the Andes?

I'm aware of the scale of it in certain locations it was above that of Rome but in general no slavery was everywhere in Rome it was in many cases a call for war. Not hidden or a expect benefit but litterity the entire reason in some cases. That as a social norms is different then what your talking about. Anyways that is only a part of the point I'm making about the mentality of Rome a mear aspect of the society that created the military machine, the Colosseum and well not the creator but definitely a holder of the belief in the soldier citizen. And that society is not Europe today or anywhere infact