vikingatespam
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know if Germany or Britian have restarted MBT production ?
Russia - General Discussion.
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I understand this question was asked within the context of the Ukrainian war so this is the appropriate thread for that. Germany has restarted production of the Leo-2A8, and the UK recently apparently discovered it can't produce large caliber gun barrels any more, so no. Not only can they not restart production, they probably can't replace barrels lost to barrel wear.
UK no longer able to manufacture large-calibre gun barrels, BAE Systems admits | Shephard
The UK may need to cannibalise stored Challenger tanks and AS90 howitzers to source replacement barrels for platforms sent to Ukraine as no manufacturing capability currently exists.
www.shephardmedia.com
Подписан рамочный контракт на поставку германской армии 123 новых танков Leopard 2A8
Сообщается , что 25 мая 2023 года в Кобленце германское федеральное оборонное закупочное ведомство Bundesamt fr Ausrstung, Informationstechnik und Nutzung der Bundeswehr (BAAINBw) подписало с немецкой компанией Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) рамочный контракт на закупку для германской…
bmpd.livejournal.com
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Russia’s Year-Round Arctic Trade Route Initiative | OilPrice.com
Due to changes in climate and Western sanctions, Russia is planning to implement year-round navigation of the Northern Sea Route in early 2024.
oilprice.com
Russian development on Northern Sea Route. Something that not only important for Russia but also for China and potential energy customers around Asia. War in Ukraine and western sanctions that follow as expected increase Russian effort on that direction.
Bloody hell! I didn't realise it'd got that bad!I understand this question was asked within the context of the Ukrainian war so this is the appropriate thread for that. Germany has restarted production of the Leo-2A8, and the UK recently apparently discovered it can't produce large caliber gun barrels any more, so no. Not only can they not restart production, they probably can't replace barrels lost to barrel wear.
UK no longer able to manufacture large-calibre gun barrels, BAE Systems admits | Shephard
The UK may need to cannibalise stored Challenger tanks and AS90 howitzers to source replacement barrels for platforms sent to Ukraine as no manufacturing capability currently exists.www.shephardmedia.com
Подписан рамочный контракт на поставку германской армии 123 новых танков Leopard 2A8
Сообщается , что 25 мая 2023 года в Кобленце германское федеральное оборонное закупочное ведомство Bundesamt fr Ausrstung, Informationstechnik und Nutzung der Bundeswehr (BAAINBw) подписало с немецкой компанией Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) рамочный контракт на закупку для германской…
I can see how. AS90 was marked as needing replacement some time ago, & the British army wasn't using it to fight anyone, so orders for replacement barrels dried up - & the last UK manufacturer closed down the production facility, since there were no overseas users & the MoD didn't offer to pay to keep it. M777 barrels were being made in the USA by the same company, so keeping a British production facility open wasn't cost-effective. So no artillery barrel maker left . . .
A decision to replace the Challenger's gun with a smoothbore was also taken long ago, so no investment made in maintaining capability.
I think it's time for decimation of the MoD - including those who've retired since fucking up - pour encourager les autres.
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Britain's self-disarmament has been shocking to watch. The loss of military and industrial capabilities over the past 30 years has been appalling. At this point the UK will likely have to attach itself to another nation's military-industrial complex to continue to supply its own needs.
Army procurement has been a disaster. The army, the Ministry of Defence & a succession of politicians of both major parties have combined to wreck it, by incompetence, obviously flawed procedures which are stubbornly kept such as lack of continuity in project management, ridiculously frequent changes of direction which result in huge amounts being spent on not buying equipment (I worked out once that in the previous 15 years or so over £1 billion had been spent on armoured vehicles which had not been bought) . . . . . . I could go on for a long time. Boxer . . . . we got it, which is good, but far too late & at far higher cost than it should have done, because of standard army/MoD failures. We paid for a share of development & were going to buy hundreds - & then withdrew. A few years later it was decided that we still needed something like it, so a competition was run. Boxer was a candidate, but it was widely reported that the competition had an unwritten rule, "anything but Boxer", because it would embarass people involved with the earlier cancellation. Something else was chosen, but eventually that deal was cancelled. And then we went back to where we'd started, after throwing away hundreds of millions of pounds. And WTF do we close down factories making weapons & equipment, then spend loads of money paying for new factories to be built to make new kit? That seems to have become a habit: each major contract has a new factory built into the price.
It's crazy. Everyone can see what's being done wrongly, so why doesn't it not only not get fixed, but becomes worse? We keep specifying unique configurations of equipment, so different from the basic product that we might as well have ordered a completely custom-designed product, & which end up with problems caused by the difficulty of modifying the product to our requirement. The Chinook fiasco, supposedly caused by non-technical MoD staff specifying a custom configuration which they thought would be cheaper - but which wasn't workable. That was for the RAF, but it's a classic example. Ajax . . . .
It's depressing
P.S. MoD’s flagship fighting vehicle project wrecked by infighting - & also too rapid turnover of significant staff & various other long-standing, widely-reported problems.
It's crazy. Everyone can see what's being done wrongly, so why doesn't it not only not get fixed, but becomes worse? We keep specifying unique configurations of equipment, so different from the basic product that we might as well have ordered a completely custom-designed product, & which end up with problems caused by the difficulty of modifying the product to our requirement. The Chinook fiasco, supposedly caused by non-technical MoD staff specifying a custom configuration which they thought would be cheaper - but which wasn't workable. That was for the RAF, but it's a classic example. Ajax . . . .
It's depressing
P.S. MoD’s flagship fighting vehicle project wrecked by infighting - & also too rapid turnover of significant staff & various other long-standing, widely-reported problems.
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I can only advise you to watch "Yes Minister" a comedy which is practically a documentary on how we run out country.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Congratulations to the Australian parliament, rapidly passing a law preventing a new Russian embassy from being built 0.25 miles away from Parliament House due to espionage concerns. If a similar situation happened in Ottawa, the time wouldn’t be in minutes, it would be months (probably too optimistic)!
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
Whilst I agree that the government and MoD civil servants are partly to blame, I think this is mostly an Army problem (and you may agree).
This is speculation, but I wonder if the Army got used to all the attention it had during the Afghanistan and Iraq operations. Although it wasn't exactly flush with cash, it was able to get stuff like new patrol vehicles it otherwise probably wouldn't have got.
Could it be that the Army thought with projects like Ajax that if it started fiddling and making it more expensive, they could blackmail HMG to give them more money/divert it from other branches of the Armed Forces?
In contrast I think the Navy and Airforce have been willing to make sacrifices. RAF giving up Hercules and accepting a modest number of A400Ms, focusing on Tempest and maybe more airlift in the future. RN going with Type 31 to save money and putting off the Harpoon replacement as long as it could. Due to careful budgeting from the RN and RAF, the result is that the military shipyards and aerospace builders have a future in the UK.
Maybe Ajax, but that doesn't explain the saga going back to the 1990s.
Certainly, a lot of the Army's procurement woes are self-inflicted, but I don't think it is responsible for things like closing Factory A, which was set up to make AFVs & had a skilled workforce, & making a deal to buy AFVs made in Factory B, which didn't exist & had to be built, with much of the workforce having to be trained. I'm pretty sure that's MoD level decision-making.
Certainly, a lot of the Army's procurement woes are self-inflicted, but I don't think it is responsible for things like closing Factory A, which was set up to make AFVs & had a skilled workforce, & making a deal to buy AFVs made in Factory B, which didn't exist & had to be built, with much of the workforce having to be trained. I'm pretty sure that's MoD level decision-making.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The Russian An124 stranded inToronto is being sent to Ukraine. Russia says there will be consequences. I hope so, we should start with closing our embassy.
Russia summons Canadian envoy in Moscow over 'undisguised robbery' of cargo plane (msn.com)
Russia summons Canadian envoy in Moscow over 'undisguised robbery' of cargo plane (msn.com)
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Joe Biden and Narendra Modi are drawing their countries closer
India does not love the West, but it is indispensable to America
Economist, that usually very western value minded, in this article acknowledging more realistic approach toward India in this increasingly Multi Polar World. This is actually what most Global South expect. A transactional relationship and not base on empty "psudo" approach. Realism even acknowledgement that India will do their own interest, including keeping business relationship with Russia, against Western wish.
Just doing business and on moment transactional relationship. It is not based on one parties enforcement on their value to others. "You have your own value, I have my own", just do transactional on the moment needs. It is more realistic, and not pretentious.
Above I quote on Economists redactional exert. Each known that the relationship in purely on moment business and sharing needs. Seems cold and cynical, but realistic. For most global South, it is realism of actual honest intentions interactions.
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I agree, transactional approach is currently the best approach with India. India is not yet ready to embrace Western values and way of thinking. It will probably take several generations before they evolve their society to be more in line with what we have in Western countries. Hopefully they will get there in the end, but they need to find the way to enlightenment by themselves.Joe Biden and Narendra Modi are drawing their countries closer
India does not love the West, but it is indispensable to Americawww.economist.com
Economist, that usually very western value minded, in this article acknowledging more realistic approach toward India in this increasingly Multi Polar World. This is actually what most Global South expect. A transactional relationship and not base on empty "psudo" approach. Realism even acknowledgement that India will do their own interest, including keeping business relationship with Russia, against Western wish.
Just doing business and on moment transactional relationship. It is not based on one parties enforcement on their value to others. "You have your own value, I have my own", just do transactional on the moment needs. It is more realistic, and not pretentious.
Above I quote on Economists redactional exert. Each known that the relationship in purely on moment business and sharing needs. Seems cold and cynical, but realistic. For most global South, it is realism of actual honest intentions interactions.
contricusc
Member
I wouldn’t go as far as to call Western Values as “enlightenment”. Some of the current “Western Values” are just extreme forms of Cultural Marxism that are in no way “enlightened”. The West’s values have gone too far to the other extreme, and they need to move closer to the center. The West is in a dire need of reform if it wants to have long term viability.
No sane country would fully embrace the current “Western Values”.
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That's quite the attitude. Other countries need to embrace western values and way of thinking because that's "progress". For all my love of Kipling, this is a problematic view point, and that's putting it mildly.
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
Embrace, evolve, find the way to enlightenment… Laughing here. Need an extra tall ladder to get on that horse.
The E.U seems to have its own version of enlightenment for members ,the U.N passes resolution after resolution
This article suggests there is a cultural psychology behind thinking that can be demonstrated an interesting read
How East and West think in profoundly different ways - BBC Future
This article suggests there is a cultural psychology behind thinking that can be demonstrated an interesting read
How East and West think in profoundly different ways - BBC Future
Oh yes please our Sovereign Western Overlords teach us the path to enlightenment. Free us from the shackles of our inferior values and our barbaric ways of thinking.
If we are lucky, hopefully my daughter will be enlightened enough to dump me in a retirement home to be abused by underpaid caretakers, and my son will have the ability to think about cutting off his genitals so that he wins the women's cricket league. And if we are really really really lucky than maybe just maybe in a generation we will be able to completely shutdown any one who thinks against the norm and completely destroy their livelihoods so that they too may be enouraged to think the right way.
Capt. Ironpants
Active Member
Thanks for that article. So much to think about. Any Westerner who has spent some time in Asia soon realises the differences in thinking, and especially the difference between Western individualism vs Asian "collectivism". Actually, I think it better to say that Asians are more " relational" than individualistic Westerners, rather than "collectivist" but perhaps that's just me.
It's even embedded in the language in Cambodia. For example, there is no Khmer word for "you". You have to guess the age and social status of your interlocutor and address him or her accordingly as "sister younger than me" or "brother older than me" or "aunt older than my mother" or "uncle younger than my father" or "grandfather" etc., adding an honorific (such as "look",, pronounced "loke") if the person is of particularly high social status not adequately addressed otherwise. It's all relational. I could give lots more examples in terms of language, but will stop there.
Also, it was not at all unusual to discover a Cambodian family had no blood ties once you got to know them very well back in the early 1990s.. Each member had lost all family members during "Pol Pot Time" and so had formed a new family with each other. It was partly a survival thing, but only partly (in an economic sense). Having no family was social anathema and the worst thing that could happen to you. I could carry on and tell stories, some very funny, but don't want to derail.
Left out of the article was perhaps an even bigger "culture bump", though: guilt vs shame cultures.
Edit: Somehow goofed and did not show up as reply to @seaspear
It's even embedded in the language in Cambodia. For example, there is no Khmer word for "you". You have to guess the age and social status of your interlocutor and address him or her accordingly as "sister younger than me" or "brother older than me" or "aunt older than my mother" or "uncle younger than my father" or "grandfather" etc., adding an honorific (such as "look",, pronounced "loke") if the person is of particularly high social status not adequately addressed otherwise. It's all relational. I could give lots more examples in terms of language, but will stop there.
Also, it was not at all unusual to discover a Cambodian family had no blood ties once you got to know them very well back in the early 1990s.. Each member had lost all family members during "Pol Pot Time" and so had formed a new family with each other. It was partly a survival thing, but only partly (in an economic sense). Having no family was social anathema and the worst thing that could happen to you. I could carry on and tell stories, some very funny, but don't want to derail.
Left out of the article was perhaps an even bigger "culture bump", though: guilt vs shame cultures.
Edit: Somehow goofed and did not show up as reply to @seaspear