Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Barbed wire surrounded encampment at Waiouru with tent accommodation and one blanket each. Ships biscuits and bully beef. What ho old boy :D
Waiouru? Luxury! When I was a boy I dreamed of living in tent in middle-O- Waiouru. South Kaipara Range is where we'd all get the peace they are looking for. :laugh
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
While I'm sure many would applaud the announcement of a new replenishment ship for th RNZ navy I wonder how it trully fits their needs. I can't help but think an opportunity was not lost in taking a very good holistic look at how New Zealand deals with the maritime enviroment and builds up future a fleet of ships to meet this need and not just keep replacing like fleet units. Single ships of any flavour will always have a limit in availability to provide a service to government. The new tanker while impressine in size seems such an odd capability for such a small navy.If it has a duel function of stategic lift with a large capacity to transport / sustain deliver goods / vehicles and personnel over and above the ship crew then it may have some justification. But for a navy of a couple of medium sized frigates and two OPV's one has to question ,why?..... Is it more a case of being a coalition asset where NZ can show the flag and make an international contribution., well may be it has merit. Then maybe why not tie in with Australia's Cantabria class and have the benefits of a class of three in the south Pacific. Is it the price?

No I can't help think NZ would not have being better served having the functions of the current Canterbury and Endeavour reroled into a two class multirole ship providing both fleet supply and amphibious duties.

Await more details of the new ship with interest and wonder what will happen when Canterbury is retired.

NZ may need to have a good look at the fleet numbers when selecting the next frigate replacement. If its only two then maybe they might be better off having only OPV's and getting the benefits of a large common class of vessel.

Then again they might want to have a look at Denmark and see what a not to dissimilar sized western country can achieve when it puts its financial hands in it pocket!

No dig at NZ personnel but I do wonder if there next generation of fleet units will satisfy their needs in this changing and challenging part of the world?

Regards S
 
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Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Barbed wire surrounded encampment at Waiouru with tent accommodation and one blanket each. Ships biscuits and bully beef. What ho old boy :D
Don't forget to have the weather play its part with either 300+ mm of snow or a great frost.
 

40 deg south

Well-Known Member
I still have my hunch that the NZ$493 million quoted in the original presser included a sustainment package. The RAN ships were $640m for two plus an additional sustainment package.
That seems highly likely for two reasons.

Firstly, the price (NZD$493/USD$350m) seems too high. See the RAN Navantia price above. An even better comparison, I think, is the Norwegian AOR being built by DSME to the Aegir 18R design that was also pitched to NZ/Aust. They are paying USDS$230 to DSME, plus unspecified amounts for locally fitted equipment. While not ice-strengthened, the ship is presumably winterised to a fair degree. While the ice strengthening undoubtedly increases costs, USD$120 (approx. 50% of purchase cost) seems a bit implausible.

Secondly, most recent complex purchases (Texans, Sea Sprites, simulators) have included a maintenance and support component in the purchase contract. If this is the direction the government wants to go, it seems more than likely they will use the same approach on the new tanker.

My guess is that the ship will come in well under USD$300 mil, and the rest of the money will be a support contract.
 
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kiwi in exile

Active Member
While I'm sure many would applaud the announcement of a new replenishment ship for th RNZ navy I wonder how it trully fits their needs. I can't help but think an opportunity was not lost in taking a very good holistic look at how New Zealand deals with the maritime enviroment and builds up future a fleet of ships to meet this need and not just keep replacing like fleet units. Single ships of any flavour will always have a limit in availability to provide a service to government. The new tanker while impressine in size seems such an odd capability for such a small navy.If it has a duel function of stategic lift with a large capacity to transport / sustain deliver goods / vehicles and personnel over and above the ship crew then it may have some justification. But for a navy of a couple of medium sized frigates and two OPV's one has to question ,why?..... Is it more a case of being a coalition asset where NZ can show the flag and make an international contribution., well may be it has merit. Then maybe why not tie in with Australia's Cantabria class and have the benefits of a class of three in the south Pacific. Is it the price?

No I can't help think NZ would not have being better served having the functions of the current Canterbury and Endeavour reroled into a two class multirole ship providing both fleet supply and amphibious duties.

Await more details of the new ship with interest and wonder what will happen when Canterbury is retired.
The capabilities of the new ship that have been released so far (ice strengthening) fits in nicely with the new DWP focus on greater NZDF presence in the southern ocean/Antartica. Going forward, this looks like it will become a much bigger part of what we do, so in that sense the new tanker design looks like a good choice.

However, I agree it would be great to see it have some secondary sealift capability. For instance Norways new tanker (a version of the UKs new Tide class) has a 40 bed hospital with theatre, can carry 100 extra personel, 40 containers and a spare NH90. Also has greater range and speed. At this stage we dont know a lot about our new ship but it would be great if we were getting some of these sort of features also.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
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Ngati Have you heard what the RAN might be sending over? Would be nice to see one of the phat ships over your way! Maybe a sub too?
No. Gawd a sub. All the loonies will get upset and accuse the RAN of bringing nukes into NZ waters. You don't expect them to be able to distinguish one type of sub from another, let alone one navies subs from another :hehe
 
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kiwipatriot69

Active Member
That would make my day, if a Destroyer vists! I suppose it would be Devonport Navy base only though, not like they would be visiting Lyttelton! Guess im taking a sick day when she arrives. Worth a trip
 

ngatimozart

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Staff member
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That would make my day, if a Destroyer vists! I suppose it would be Devonport Navy base only though, not like they would be visiting Lyttelton! Guess im taking a sick day when she arrives. Worth a trip
I wish a visit to Lyttelton. I'd be through that tunnel like a dog shot in the bum. Guess I might have to climb into a tin budgie and visit te whenua-a-jafa :lol3
 
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t68

Well-Known Member
No. Gawd a sub. All the loonies will get upset and accuse the RAN of bringing nukes into NZ waters. You don't expect them to be able to distinguish one type of sub from another, let alone one navies subs from another :hehe
You could always use it as an excuse that hostile submarine are in NZ water and it's time you collaborated with the UK on Type 26:eek:nfloorl:

Just out of curiosity has a Collin's class or RAN sub ever docked in NZ?
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
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You could always use it as an excuse that hostile submarine are in NZ water and it's time you collaborated with the UK on Type 26:eek:nfloorl:
Remains to be seen whether or not the Type 26 will be the right platform for NZ. We will be taking a lot of interest in the SEA5000 design and build.
Just out of curiosity has a Collin's class or RAN sub ever docked in NZ?
Don't know about a Collins, but I partook of a few ales in a RAN Oberon class sub back in 1981 when it was alongside in Wellington. I'm 6ft 4' and they are not built for tall fullas.
 
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t68

Well-Known Member
Presumably they quietly transit around wider NZ waters tracking other subs of interest "going to their stations in the Indian Ocean" etc, but in terms of actually docking it's been a while since I've heard of a Collins class visit, but according to media reports HMAS Rankin docked in Auckland back in 2008 and HMAS Farncomb in 2005.
Cheers thanks for the info thought they would have but have never heard anything.

NG, got to dip my lid for those blokes having walked through the museum pieces, especaliy the part on what they had to do when they had to go if you catch my drift.
 

recce.k1

Well-Known Member
ANZAC Frigate capability updates

Navy Today (July) advises the RNZN has restored its passive SONAR capability on HMNZS Te Mana as part of the Frigate Systems Upgrade in which the Thales Broadband Sonar Advanced Processing System (BSAPS) has been incorporated into the existing Spherion B Sonar system (apparently HMNZS Te Kaha's installation will commence in September).

The article also states that this restores a passive sonar capability that the RNZN lost with the decommissioning of Leander class Frigate HMNZS Canterbury in 2005 (which proved extremely useful in East Timor a few years prior).

Well this is pleasing (and rather timely) in light of the proliferation of submarines in the wider Asia-Pacific region.

Also IIRC the RNZN ANZAC's towed array sonar fitting points/winches were removed in the early 2000's (??) so it will be interesting to see if these functions will also be restored etc.

Links: July NT article (page 20) and the earlier April NT article (pages 20-21)
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Remains to be seen whether or not the Type 26 will be the right platform for NZ. We will be taking a lot of interest in the SEA5000 design and build.
Indeed and both often referenced projects will need to demonstrate competitiveness with respect to cost effectiveness/ VfM. That may be easier said than done.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
That would make my day, if a Destroyer vists! I suppose it would be Devonport Navy base only though, not like they would be visiting Lyttelton! Guess im taking a sick day when she arrives. Worth a trip
It is worth it. Did the Yokosuna open day a few years ago had a look through the USS Larsen - very impressive. Hopefully the Japanese and Koreans will show up with something interesting. An JMSDF Atago or Hyūga Class would be great as I have only gone through the older Shrinane Class before or from the RoKN a KDXIII Sejong the Great would be fascinating - demonstrating the kind of impact one can have for under a US billion.
 

recce.k1

Well-Known Member
Indeed and both often referenced projects will need to demonstrate competitiveness with respect to cost effectiveness/ VfM. That may be easier said than done.
I'd say neither projects are necessarily a given at this early point in time so as you say if one project provides added value for money then the likes of Treasury will no doubt have a good say (although Govt can ultimately decide of course). We see this with Frigate Systems Upgrade and the resultant LM outcome etc.

However this also provides a great opportunity for competing shipbuilders to present attractive acquisition and through-life support proposals, the latter an important consideration. Frankly there's no reason why competing shipbuilders could not present options to also increase Frigate build numbers to cover off the likes of maintenance cycles and long term support (and thus provide guaranteed availability as per Govt requirements etc)!
 
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