Royal Netherlands Navy

Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
The first steel is cut for the replacement of the Tripartite/Alkmaarklasse minehunters. It is a great day for the defence industry of France.
www.navalnews.com

First Steel Cutting Ceremony For Dutch-Belgian MCM program - Naval News

A steel cutting ceremony for the Belgian Navy and Royal Netherlands Navy mine countermeasure vessel (MCM) program was held at Crist Shipyard in Gdynia (Poland), on July 19. The first steel sheet was cut for the Belgian Navy's first-in-class MCM vessel.
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
A unique visit of a Netherlands warship to Japan, the first in 21 years.

marineschepen.nl

Eerste Nederlandse marineschip in 21 jaar: Zr.Ms. Evertsen brengt uniek bezoek aan Japan

Evertsen in Yokosuka
marineschepen.nl


The Koninklijke Marine has a new commander.
marineschepen.nl

Nieuwe commandant marine: we zijn onze voorsprong kwijt

Nu bewegen anders dreigt degradatie.
marineschepen.nl

| "..... maar het is duidelijk dat de zorgen over veroudering, de kleine vloot en grote personeelstekorten groot zijn. Meerdere keren kwam dit, zij het kort, ter sprake tijdens de conferentie." |
And it was clear during the conference that the Netherlands still has to work on these problems.
 
ngatimozart

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Sandhi Yudha said:
Not really important news, but she looks cute....
nos.nl

Walrus rust uit op (Walrus)onderzeeër in Den Helder

De onderzeeër van de marine waar het dier op rustte, behoort tot de zogenoemde Walrusklasse.
nos.nl nos.nl

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452916307872059394

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452931029887508483
Click to expand...
Does she qualify for submariners and seagoing allowance? I take it she will now be listed on the ships company so will be able to draw pay and rations.
 
walter

walter

Active Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #266
Zr.Ms. Evertsen will be the first frigate with the new gun

The first of the four 127/64 LW guns of the Italian company Leonardo, will be placed on Zr.Ms. Evertsen. The Air Defense and Command Frigate (LCF) will be maintained next year, will be modernized and will therefore receive the new gun.


marineschepen.nl

Zr.Ms. Evertsen zal eerste fregat worden met nieuw kanon

Nieuw Leonardo 127/64 LW kanon voor LCF'en
marineschepen.nl
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
walter said:
Zr.Ms. Evertsen will be the first frigate with the new gun

The first of the four 127/64 LW guns of the Italian company Leonardo, will be placed on Zr.Ms. Evertsen. The Air Defense and Command Frigate (LCF) will be maintained next year, will be modernized and will therefore receive the new gun.


marineschepen.nl

Zr.Ms. Evertsen zal eerste fregat worden met nieuw kanon

Nieuw Leonardo 127/64 LW kanon voor LCF'en
marineschepen.nl
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing.
What will be done with the old 127 mm cannons? Keep in storage or sold to other countries?
 
T

Toptob

Active Member
Sandhi Yudha said:
Thank you for sharing.
What will be done with the old 127 mm cannons? Keep in storage or sold to other countries?
Click to expand...
Yes, as Walter said above, these guns are about ready for the scrap yard... Or a museum! Funnily enough, at first the navy wanted to use 120mm Bofors guns from the 1940's but they only had two left. And it was too much even for the bean counters when Bofors offered to refurbish a pair of guns from a museum ship!!! But in all seriousness, these guns are old and worn out and there are frequent breakdowns and the magazine is still loaded by hand. They're at least two generations behind the state of the art, so I figure even poorer operators will be able to find a better solution from a cheaper source.

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Nieuwe onderzeeboten vertraagd, Defensie: '2028 niet realistisch'

Letter from the defense minister

The "outgoing" (they've been going out since march) minister of defense has sent a letter to parliament to let them know that the procurement of new submarines will be delayed. And that it is unfeasible to start replacing the Walrus class somewhere between 2028 and 2031. Some of the excus... KUCH! reasons given are;

1. The shipyards are not used to give such detailed information as was asked for in this part of the procurement project. Which isn't strange because usually the would either give a more targeted and detailed set of demands. And the details would be worked out after the bidding process.

2. The DMO (procurement agency) does not have the required capacity to analyze the "increased" amount of information that this procurement process has produced. And this slowed down communication with the yards.

3. Because of the problems with communication between the yards and DMO there where even more delays.


Now people who know about defense procurement know that when you plan to sign a contract in 2022 you're not going to design, build, launch and have a submarine ready for service in 2028. But this just seems like it's kicking the can down the road some more.
 
walter

walter

Active Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #270
IMPRESSIVE AMOUNT OF STEEL FOR COMBAT SUPPORT SHIP

26 October 2021
The puzzle of the Combat Support Ship (CSS), the first ship we have been building for the Royal Netherlands Navy in ten years, is starting to take shape. After the keel laying on June 2 of this year, the construction of sections and blocks is progressing steadily. Although the contours of the entire ship are not yet really visible, a large part of the puzzle pieces are already ready for actual assembly.


Indrukwekkende hoeveelheid staal voor Combat Support Ship - Damen

nlnavy.damen.com nlnavy.damen.com
 
T

Toptob

Active Member
walter said:
IMPRESSIVE AMOUNT OF STEEL FOR COMBAT SUPPORT SHIP

26 October 2021
The puzzle of the Combat Support Ship (CSS), the first ship we have been building for the Royal Netherlands Navy in ten years, is starting to take shape. After the keel laying on June 2 of this year, the construction of sections and blocks is progressing steadily. Although the contours of the entire ship are not yet really visible, a large part of the puzzle pieces are already ready for actual assembly.


Indrukwekkende hoeveelheid staal voor Combat Support Ship - Damen

nlnavy.damen.com nlnavy.damen.com
Click to expand...
Looking forward to seeing her be inducted into the marine. Too bad she's not being built in Vlissingen but hey needs must.

-------------------------

In other news it looks like Greece is still interested in buying the old M klasse frigates. Oh and the six minesweepers that are left in Dutch service. Apparently the Greek media reported that a MOU (? intentieverklaring) was signed on wednesday, which was confirmed by the DMO, for the sale of Zr.Ms. Van Speijk en Zr.Ms. Van Amstel to Greece. Some interesting points;

1. Last Juli DMO vice-admiraal Arie Jan de Waard told marineschepen.nl that they where aware of the interest in the frigates. But that the navy didn't want a gap in ASM capability and would only give them up when the replacements come online.

2. However in the defense project overview of the last state budget proposals (prinsjesdag here in the NL it's a thing) there was the following sentence: "De M-fregatten zijn vanaf medio 2025 operationeel niet meer nodig vanwege de instroom van de nieuwe vaartuigen uit het project ‘Vervanging M-fregatten’." Meaning that the frigates aren't necessary anymore around 2025, but their replacements are delayed to the 2027/28 time period. And it wouldn't surprise me if they where delayed some more along the way.

3. As far as I'm aware, these frigates are already getting pretty long in the tooth. Back in 2015 there where reports about the gasturbines giving problems because of overuse and their hours being limited. And the obsolescence of some systems and their suppliers not supporting them anymore. I don't know if they're doing an extensive refit, but it seems unlikely for 80 million a piece...

4. Update. The defense ministry reports that the MOU is about the possibility of the sale of 8 vessels.
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Toptob said:
Looking forward to seeing her be inducted into the marine. Too bad she's not being built in Vlissingen but hey needs must.

-------------------------

In other news it looks like Greece is still interested in buying the old M klasse frigates. Oh and the six minesweepers that are left in Dutch service. Apparently the Greek media reported that a MOU (? intentieverklaring) was signed on wednesday, which was confirmed by the DMO, for the sale of Zr.Ms. Van Speijk en Zr.Ms. Van Amstel to Greece. Some interesting points;

1. Last Juli DMO vice-admiraal Arie Jan de Waard told marineschepen.nl that they where aware of the interest in the frigates. But that the navy didn't want a gap in ASM capability and would only give them up when the replacements come online.

2. However in the defense project overview of the last state budget proposals (prinsjesdag here in the NL it's a thing) there was the following sentence: "De M-fregatten zijn vanaf medio 2025 operationeel niet meer nodig vanwege de instroom van de nieuwe vaartuigen uit het project ‘Vervanging M-fregatten’." Meaning that the frigates aren't necessary anymore around 2025, but their replacements are delayed to the 2027/28 time period. And it wouldn't surprise me if they where delayed some more along the way.

3. As far as I'm aware, these frigates are already getting pretty long in the tooth. Back in 2015 there where reports about the gasturbines giving problems because of overuse and their hours being limited. And the obsolescence of some systems and their suppliers not supporting them anymore. I don't know if they're doing an extensive refit, but it seems unlikely for 80 million a piece...

4. Update. The defense ministry reports that the MOU is about the possibility of the sale of 8 vessels.
Click to expand...
|"Het is nog onbekend wat een verkoop betekent voor de kleine Nederlandse vloot, die gebukt gaat onder een terkort aan personeel en tekort aan geld. Nederland heeft momenteel zes fregatten en zes mijnenjagers. Van de twee M-fregatten is de Van Amstel momenteel actief, de Van Speijk ligt vanwege personeelstekort tegen de kant. Ook een mijnenjager ligt om dezelfde reden stil."|

Quite a deprimerende situation.
I understand that the Netherlands government needs money, but giving up 25% of the frigate fleet and 100% of the minehunters before replacements are delivered, is not such a good idea.
 
T

Toptob

Active Member
Sandhi Yudha said:
|"Het is nog onbekend wat een verkoop betekent voor de kleine Nederlandse vloot, die gebukt gaat onder een terkort aan personeel en tekort aan geld. Nederland heeft momenteel zes fregatten en zes mijnenjagers. Van de twee M-fregatten is de Van Amstel momenteel actief, de Van Speijk ligt vanwege personeelstekort tegen de kant. Ook een mijnenjager ligt om dezelfde reden stil."|

Quite a deprimerende situation.
I understand that the Netherlands government needs money, but giving up 25% of the frigate fleet and 100% of the minehunters before replacements are delivered, is not such a good idea.
Click to expand...
It's not so much that they need money Sandhi. As far as I can tell from the various TNI threads on the forum, defense seems like a positive and important part of Indonesian politics. A politician can make political hay by involving themself in defense projects, perhaps to show that they are doing something to defend the country. Here in the Netherlands on the other hand being involved with defense is like a punishment for a politician.

The military is very unpopular here an many people find it unnecessary and a waste of money. Many, if not most people wouldn't advise they kids to join the military. And the minister of defense is only in the news if there's some sort of scandal like the commando's having no ammunition to train with, or two poor souls blowing themselves up in Mali because they where using old, defective and improperly stored mortar rounds because they have no money to buy new ones.

But it's not because the government needs money, they have no problem with spending lots and looooots of money. Here's the documentation of the Dutch government budget for 2021 or a graphical overview, both in Dutch. They can spend almost a 100 Billion Euros on social security and 86.7 Billion on healthcare. And even then they still spend 12 Billion on defense! Personally, I think they should be able to do a lot more with that amount of money. Many countries spend less on their defense, but still manage to provide ammunition and spare parts at least...
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Some countries do still provide ammunition for training but not enough. Canada would be an example but more worrisome is how much inventory do many minimally spending NATO members actually have. Pollies need to realize supply chain issues are even more severe for military kit than the commercial sector. Hopefully military advisers are drumming that home to pollies as they should be more susceptible to supply chain issues now because of COVID.
 
walter

walter

Active Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #276
Well it seems the Dutch Defense spending will go up(finally and long overdue)

If correct we would be going to 1.8% BNP

"De krijgsmacht krijgt er jaarlijks zo’n 3 miljard euro bij "

"The armed forces receive around 3 billion euros annually extra"

Also:

"With the extra billions for Defense, says an insider, 'the cry for help has been heard' that the armed forces previously let out. Yet the hefty bag of money does not meet the minimum requirement of 4 billion that generals and other leaders previously laid down. This amount was needed to clear all the backlogs and to align expenditure with the EU average. To meet NATO's standard of 2 percent of gross domestic product, at least 5 billion would be needed."

But a great step in the right way ;)

Subject to the accuracy in this one article and by this I mean in particular the annual increase of 3 mjd (and that is not meant + 3 mjd during the cabinet period), then we go from 12.5 billion to 15.5 billion, I think that is something like 1.8% of GDP. (estimate)
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
The Netherlands Ministry of Defence announced that the service life of the Walrus-class submarines will be extended.

In order to maintain submarine service until the new boats are available, the present submarines will have to sail longer. The intent is to keep them in service until the mid-2030s, but only if it can be done safely. Sailing through will require, among other things, a different maintenance approach. Therefore, DOD must decommission 1 of the 4 Walrus-class submarines in the short term, and a second later. Parts of these 2 oldest boats will then be used to maintain the other submarines.

With other words, the submarinefleet has to shrink with 50% to be able to keep the two last built ones alive.
Any new submarines can be expected to enter service in the 2034-2037 timeframe at the earliest.

www.defensie.nl

Nieuwe fase vervanging onderzeeboten: Walrusklasse vaart langer door

Nederland wil haar veelgevraagde onderzeebootcapaciteit binnen de NAVO en EU behouden. Bondgenoten en partners kunnen zo de komende decennia op Nederland blijven rekenen. De ontwikkelingen langs de oostflank van het NAVO-verdragsgebied maken extra duidelijk hoe belangrijk het is dat de...
www.defensie.nl www.defensie.nl
 
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