Royal Netherlands Navy

[Sandhi Yudha]

I do wonder how effective RAPIDFire 40mm really is against missiles since their marketing on anti-air capabilities seems to focus a lot on UAVs? Even against the 40mm Bofors, the RAPIDFire 40mm seems at a disadvantage with a slower 200 rpm rate of fire compared to 300 rpm and presumably shorter range due to the smaller 40mm CTAS cartridge compared to the 40mm Bofors. Maybe RAPIDFire's newer mount design offers better accuracy and the 40 CTAS air burst round offers a more effective dispersion pattern for its tungsten pellets than the Bofors to compensate?

I can not find videos of real tests against sea skimming anti-ship missiles of the RAPIDFire on the internet, just CGI-promotion videos. And videos the Bofors 40 mm just show it shooting on static targets. Only from the Oerlikon Skyshield videos have proven that it is able to shoot down subsonic target drones.

 

[swerve]

Thank you for the info and explanation.

So, because the GAU-8 is not anymore in production and the existing Goalkeepers are start to wear and because larger caliber gunsystems give better results than 20 mm systems, the best candidates are at the moment the Oerlikon Millennium 35 mm and HSA's mothercompany's RAPIDFire 40 mm.

Or the Leonardo Marlin, with 40mm.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Further proving the point Toptob and I made about that "cooperation" between The French,Belgium and The Netherlands.

The French giving a bit of work to Belgian companies,keeping most of it in France though(and nothing for The Netherlands)

FN Herstal and ABC Selected as Key Suppliers for rMCM Program - Naval News announces it now officially, but Vervanger Nederlandse en Belgische mijnenjagers already "knew" it much longer.

So its now for sure that the 12,7 mm RWS will be provided by FN Herstal. I just wonder if the choice for the Bofors 40 Mk.4 is fixed or not. Maybe we can expect that it will be replaced by the Thales RAPIDFire 40 mm CIWS, after all the French try to keep it as French as possible.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

"The Hull Vane is an 11-meter-wide hydrofoil installed below the stern of the ship. The biggest advantage is the 10% fuel saving it provides."
10 % is a lot! Besides this there are numerous other advantages, while the installation of the hull-hydrofoil only costs €2 million for each ship.

Dutch Navy to Test Hull Vane Hydrofoil on HNLMS Zeeland OPV - Naval News

The Royal Netherlands Navy's HNLMS Zeeland offshore patrol vessel (OPV) will be the first major ship to benefit from a Hull Vane solution, an underwater spoiler that offers numerous tactical, practical and cost-effective advantages. The experiment is a world first: no other navy has dared to...

www.navalnews.com

 

[walter]

DAMEN CUTS THE FIRST SAMPLE OF THE ROYAL NAVY'S COMBAT SUPPORT SHIP

On 2 December, the first sample of the Royal Navy's Combat Support Ship (CSS) was cut at Damen Shipyards Galati (Romania). A total of 7,500 tons of steel will be cut in 180 sections for the new navy ship. This is an important milestone in the construction project and is the first tangible part of the ship's construction.

The date of cutting the first steel has been raised slightly to ensure the progress of the project. The ship must be built under the applicable safety rules around COVID-19. As a result, a little more time had to be calculated in order to be able to finish the ship on time.

With the arrival of the new CSS, the maritime supply capacity will be restored for the Royal Navy. This ship will carry out the supply tasks together with the Joint Support Ship Zr.Ms. Karel Doorman. The construction of the CSS is therefore based on the design of the Karel Doorman. The supply ship can operate worldwide under the protection of frigates. In addition, it can be used independently, for example in the fight against drug trafficking at sea, the provision of emergency aid or the control of refugee flows.

The engineering of the ship takes place mainly in the Netherlands. In addition to the main contractor Damen, the ship involves 100 mainly Dutch suppliers, who are helping to build the ship. The next milestone in construction is scheduled for May next year, when the keel laying of the ship will take place.

[Source: Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding ]

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

DAMEN CUTS THE FIRST SAMPLE OF THE ROYAL NAVY'S COMBAT SUPPORT SHIP

On 2 December, the first sample of the Royal Navy's Combat Support Ship (CSS) was cut at Damen Shipyards Galati (Romania). A total of 7,500 tons of steel will be cut in 180 sections for the new navy ship. This is an important milestone in the construction project and is the first tangible part of the ship's construction.

The date of cutting the first steel has been raised slightly to ensure the progress of the project. The ship must be built under the applicable safety rules around COVID-19. As a result, a little more time had to be calculated in order to be able to finish the ship on time.

With the arrival of the new CSS, the maritime supply capacity will be restored for the Royal Navy. This ship will carry out the supply tasks together with the Joint Support Ship Zr.Ms. Karel Doorman. The construction of the CSS is therefore based on the design of the Karel Doorman. The supply ship can operate worldwide under the protection of frigates. In addition, it can be used independently, for example in the fight against drug trafficking at sea, the provision of emergency aid or the control of refugee flows.

The engineering of the ship takes place mainly in the Netherlands. In addition to the main contractor Damen, the ship involves 100 mainly Dutch suppliers, who are helping to build the ship. The next milestone in construction is scheduled for May next year, when the keel laying of the ship will take place.

[Source: Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding ]

In the beginning i was quite confused, because i didnt know the British Royal Navy also ordered a CSS-vessel. Only later i realized this is just a Google-translation article which directly translated Koninklijke Marine to Royal Navy.

Thanks for sharing.

Now also on navalnews.

Damen cuts first steel on Royal Netherlands Navy’s Combat Support Ship - Naval News

On December 2nd at Damen Shipyards Galati, Romania, first steel was cut on the Royal Netherlands Navy’s (RNLN) Combat Support Ship (CSS) Den Helder.

www.navalnews.com

 

[swerve]

"In the beginning i was quite confused, because i didnt know the British Royal Navy also ordered a CSS-vessel. Only later i realized this is just a Google-translation article which directly translated Koninklijke Marine to Royal Navy "

Søværnet (Danish) translates as "The Navy". The WW2 & earlier name for the Italian navy was the Regia Marina = Royal Navy. And so on . . . .

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Both classes are actually that advanced that a future mid-life update can extend their lives with at least 20 years.
But both countries want to replace these large frigates.

Germany and the Netherlands Joining Forces for F-124 / LCF Frigate Replacement - Naval News

Germany and the Netherlands have signed an agreement yesterday to work jointly on a next generation frigate which will replace the German Navy Sachsen-class (F124) and the Royal Netherlands Navy De Zeven Provinciën-class (LCF) frigates.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Redlands18]

Both classes are actually that advanced that a future mid-life update can extend their lives with at least 20 years.
But both countries want to replace these larges frigates.

Germany and the Netherlands Joining Forces for F-124 / LCF Frigate Replacement - Naval News

Germany and the Netherlands have signed an agreement yesterday to work jointly on a next generation frigate which will replace the German Navy Sachsen-class (F124) and the Royal Netherlands Navy De Zeven Provinciën-class (LCF) frigates.

www.navalnews.com

They are both probably light on for VLS Cells for primarily AD Ships with only 32 Cells(F-124) and 40 Cells(LCF) going forward. The other major European Navies are carrying 48 and Italy has plans for 64 in their next Gen Destroyers.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

More like they merged. Temporarily, until going bankrupt in 1983. From the ashes of that RDM Nederlands was created, which included both shipyards in separate companies - and built the Walrus subs.

Once the Walrus subs were complete the government decided to get rid of it and sold off Schelde to Damen, with RDM separately going to a private investor. That private investor further split up the company (RDM Technology, RDM Submarines, Nevesbu Warship Design Office and separately the actual shipyard), and most of it went bankrupt in 2004. The RDM shipyard at that point was bought up by the city of Rotterdam, most of the other companies incl. RDM Submarines simply disappeared. Nevesbu is notably still around and designs ships for both Damen Schelde and IHC Merwede.

I just visited the website of another submarine designer from the Netherlands: Oceans Submarines BV. Ive never heard about them but looking to fhe website it looks quite amateuristic with a strange way of photo-editing. The designs are quite exotic and to me quite unbelievable that their designs can reach 900 m.

On the website their office is on the Kaaiman islands, but on other websites their base/office is in Woerden.
Does anyone know this company?

HOME

NEYK SUBMARINE is a world leader in the design, development and construction of submarines, covering all the disciplines necessary to build modern, high-tech submarines, and specializes in Tourist Submarines, Luxury Submarines, Pleasure Submarines and Offshore Submarines.

www.neyksubmarine.eu

 

[swerve]

Both classes are actually that advanced that a future mid-life update can extend their lives with at least 20 years.
But both countries want to replace these large frigates.

Germany and the Netherlands Joining Forces for F-124 / LCF Frigate Replacement - Naval News

Germany and the Netherlands have signed an agreement yesterday to work jointly on a next generation frigate which will replace the German Navy Sachsen-class (F124) and the Royal Netherlands Navy De Zeven Provinciën-class (LCF) frigates.

www.navalnews.com

They've announced that they've signed an agreement to work on a replacement, but that doesn't mean anything will happen soon. The F126/MKS180 won't start entering service until 2028, & the M-class replacement will be operational about the same time. A DZP/F124 replacement will be some years after that, & the DZP/F124 entered service from 2002. I reckon there won't be a replacement until well into the 2030s.

In the meantime they might be able to boost their armament, e.g. fitting launchers for short-range missiles to free some of the Mk41s for more long range missiles. They've been upgrading the SMART-L radars, improving their ballistic missile defence abilities among other things.

 

[swerve]

I just visited the website of another submarine designer from the Netherlands: Oceans Submarines BV. Ive never heard about them but looking to fhe website it looks quite amateuristic with a strange way of photo-editing. The designs are quite exotic and to me quite unbelievable that their designs can reach 900 m.

On the website their office is on the Kaaiman islands, but on other websites their base/office is in Woerden.
Does anyone know this company?

HOME

NEYK SUBMARINE is a world leader in the design, development and construction of submarines, covering all the disciplines necessary to build modern, high-tech submarines, and specializes in Tourist Submarines, Luxury Submarines, Pleasure Submarines and Offshore Submarines.

www.neyksubmarine.eu

NEYK's website is very amateurish. "900 metres (1000 ft)" - doh! Very poor English, very big claims.

 

[kato]

A DZP/F124 replacement will be some years after that, & the DZP/F124 entered service from 2002. I reckon there won't be a replacement until well into the 2030s.

The capability profile for F127 that has been designed recently is intended to replace F124 "beginning 2032", although considered likely to be pushed back due to delays with F126.

The other major European Navies are carrying 48 and Italy has plans for 64 in their next Gen Destroyers.

Armament for F127 is part of a separate ongoing study regarding future maritime air defence (Project HF133), but initial design visualizations went in the direction of a F126-sized cruiser with up to 90 cells.

 

[kato]

On the website their office is on the Kaaiman islands, but on other websites their base/office is in Woerden.
Does anyone know this company?

The company has been around since 2016, and that specific submarine design made the rounds as a civilian luxury submarine concept in 2017 - using the exact same visualizations, by now slightly updated. They basically just kept it to the remotely more sensible visualizations and switched to a camo pattern on the outside skins for the "military version" of the Neyk.

I'm fairly sure the whole business has always been some sort of tax scheme by the holding that owns them. That they've switched offices a couple times within the Netherlands and are now offshored fits right in. It also helps that "competition" in the form of U-Boat Worx BV is around if you want to present vaporware like that - an actual Dutch company that produces civilian luxury submersibles.

 

[Albedo]

They are both probably light on for VLS Cells for primarily AD Ships with only 32 Cells(F-124) and 40 Cells(LCF) going forward. The other major European Navies are carrying 48 and Italy has plans for 64 in their next Gen Destroyers.

Don't the LCF have space reserved for an extra 8-cell Mk41? Fitting the extra Mk41 seems like a good interim solution if insufficient missiles is a concern.

 

[Ananda]

M-Frigates Replacement to be Known as ASWF - Anti-Submarine Warfare Frigate - Naval News

The Dutch and Belgian Ministries of Defense announced today that the M-frigate replacement will be called: Anti-Submarine Warfare Frigate (ASWF).

www.navalnews.com

Dutch and Belgian defense ministry officially announced 4 Fregat as replacement for Dutch M Class Frigates and 2 Belgian ones.

It will be 6000 ton 146 m dimensions. This seems will have similar hull with the Omega Frigates concept by Damen.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

So, the replacement for the Goalkeeper will be a twin-layer system : the Raytheon/RAM-System GmbH RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) guided weapon system + the Leonardo DART (Driven Ammunition Reduced Time of flight) 76 mm guided ammunition gun.

Netherlands sets out plans for Goalkeeper CIWS replacement

The Netherlands Ministry of Defence (MoD) is to buy a combination of inner-layer missiles and medium-calibre guided munitions to replace the Goalkeeper close-in weapon...

www.janes.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

What a surprise....
I expected that Thomson-CSF/Thales France would deliver the air and surface detection, tracking and classification radars, and not Hollandse Signaalapparaten /Thales Nederland.
Well, it is a capable and advanced but compact and affordable 4D multi-function naval radar, and i expect it is one of the most advanced radar systems ever installed in a mine-hunter.
A maximum range of 180 km for air targets and 80 km for surface targets is quite impressive. But its actually unclear to me the difference between a 3D radar and this "4D" NS50. Is it just a marketing-thing?

Edit: "The latest addition to the Thales family of naval 4D AESA radars, the NS50 is a dual-axis multi-beam radar conceived to provide Doppler measurement as well as elevation information, bearing, and range data."
So it seems that Doppler measurement is regarded here as the 4th dimension.

Thales krijgt grote opdracht van Belgische en Nederlandse marine

Thales uit Hengelo heeft opdracht gekregen om voor de marines van België en Nederland twaalf nieuwe mijnbestrijdingsvaartuigen uit te rusten met NS50-radars voor lucht- en oppervlaktebewaking en vuurleidingsmogelijkheden. Het gaat om zogenoemde Mine Counter Measures Vessels (MCMV).

www.rtvoost.nl

Thales to Supply NS50 Radars for Belgian and Dutch Next Generation MCM Vessels - Naval News

Through this contract for its new NS50 radar, Thales is proud to serve both the navies of Belgium and the Netherlands through the next generation MCMV contract with Kership - a joint venture between Naval Group and Piriou.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Toptob]

Mijnenbestrijdingsvaartuigen zeker van 40mm Bofors

The Bofors 40 Mk4 has been locked down for the future mine counter measures vessels. Which is quite the punch for "mere" minesweepers, just like the radars are going to be pretty powerful for such ships. One thing to note is that this is the first time since the 50's that the Dutch navy is buying Swedish cannons. And it seems that they are still buying 40mm Oto Marlin cannons from Leonardo for the next frigate design.

Now a question I couldn't quite find an answer to, will these cannons from different producers fire the same ammunition? And if so will it just be basic ammunition, while programmable ammunition will be different?

Toekomstige Belgische fregatten krijgen helft minder raketten

In other news the Belgian navy is choosing to cut half the VLS (one module of 8) for their future frigates to cut down on costs. So that will bring them from a paltry 16 to an anemic 8 VLS.

 

[kato]

Now a question I couldn't quite find an answer to, will these cannons from different producers fire the same ammunition? And if so will it just be basic ammunition, while programmable ammunition will be different?

Leonardo OTO Marlin 40 fires standardized 40x365R Bofors L70 rounds, i.e. the same ammunition as the BAE Mk4.

Given BAE touts 3P ammunition programming as a market advantage (and OTO touts ammunition provider independency) i doubt the fuze programmer of the Marlin 40 will be refittable to be in any way compatible with 3P.