Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

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Reptilia

Well-Known Member

‘Australia recently announced that it would purchase a frigate worth 10 trillion won.
The K Defense production plant recently established in Australia is expected to have an advantage in winning orders because it can also produce naval weapon systems. If successful in receiving the order, it will be the largest in the history of Korea's defense industry exports.’

Koreans seem to think it’s between Hanwha, Hyundai and Mitsubishi.
 
R

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
Pilbara still a year away from its launch…. my goodness.

Arafura 2024
Eyre 2025
Pilbara 2026
-
Gippsland
Illawarra
Carpentaria
 
S

Stampede

Well-Known Member
iambuzzard said:
Very slow drumbeat
Click to expand...
Somewhat of an understatement.

Very difficult to understand the glacial pace of this project.
I get things need to be tested and made safe but really!!!!!!
It was laid down over five years ago and launched in Dec 2021.

At the end of the day it's a relatively small , unsophisticated ship.
A recycled non deck penetrating 25mm bushmaster, no embarked helicopter and no UAV for the foreseeable future.
Is a pretty basic ship.
Even taking into consideration the Fleet review and revised build numbers ,what has been the reason for the delay.

Apparently......... "delayed due to structural fire protection design issues that hindered the ship's ability to meet seaworthiness standards."
Surely not.
What did they have: one bloke with a HB pencil and some postit notes trying to work the problem!!!!!!!!!

If we build Destroyers like we build OPV's how long will that take.
As for HMAS AUKUS.................hate to think!

The thing is for all this negativity I know we can do stuff and do it well.

The whole OPV project however has been a disappointment on so many levels.

Its like everyone has just given up.
No momentum, No desire!
We just don't seem to want it.

I do wonder what will be the fate of this Arafura Class going forward!


Cheers S
 
I

iambuzzard

Active Member
Stampede said:
Somewhat of an understatement.

Very difficult to understand the glacial pace of this project.
I get things need to be tested and made safe but really!!!!!!
It was laid down over five years ago and launched in Dec 2021.

At the end of the day it's a relatively small , unsophisticated ship.
A recycled non deck penetrating 25mm bushmaster, no embarked helicopter and no UAV for the foreseeable future.
Is a pretty basic ship.
Even taking into consideration the Fleet review and revised build numbers ,what has been the reason for the delay.

Apparently......... "delayed due to structural fire protection design issues that hindered the ship's ability to meet seaworthiness standards."
Surely not.
What did they have: one bloke with a HB pencil and some postit notes trying to work the problem!!!!!!!!!

If we build Destroyers like we build OPV's how long will that take.
As for HMAS AUKUS.................hate to think!

The thing is for all this negativity I know we can do stuff and do it well.

The whole OPV project however has been a disappointment on so many levels.

Its like everyone has just given up.
No momentum, No desire!
We just don't seem to want it.

I do wonder what will be the fate of this Arafura Class going forward!


Cheers S
Click to expand...
Stampede, I'm a non military civvie and this glacial pace REALLY depresses me!
 
S

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Nice to see Arafura is finally in sea trials. I hope it is smooth sailing from here.

This is definitely not the normal, and the structural fire protection issues were evidently far more than just the wrong type of portable extinguisher.

For this amount of time it must have related to something significant such as bulkhead heat resistance, ventillation redesign, or fire main/suppression system upgrade. Maybe there was some non compliant material, such as the wrong paint, insulation or cabling that had to be stripped out and replaced. Perhaps a combination of all of these.

There is no released information, but hopefully it will be publicised at some point so that the lessons can be fully learnt.

From personal experience, retrofitting takes about 10 times the schedule and cost of fitting during build. Lets say that the main bulkheads required insulating to obtain their necessary fire rating, and the cable glands all replaced for the same reason. This would have been easy during build with directed and unencumbered access. It would be an absolute nightmare to install afterwards.

Likewise if the ventillation system had deficiencies for sectional isolation, and new trunking/fans had to be installed, then this can be time consuming.

I can't imagine any of this was cheap, and at least the first three ships need this package. I wounder if the remaining three were caught before too much work was done.
 
W

Wombat000

Well-Known Member
Despite being an unsophisticated ship, they do at least appear to be quite sturdy.

They might actually be useful in potentially more ’rigorous Grey Zone’ activities?
I imagine if this was to occur, it might get complicated if it was an RAN vessel?

Perhaps there may be an incentive to create a genuine Coast Guard after all, and it might be interesting if this class of ship was its workhorse?
The Evolved Capes are good, they cover distance etc, but they are a bit ’lightly constructed’, correct?
 
7

76mmGuns

Active Member
Stampede said:
The whole OPV project however has been a disappointment on so many levels.

Its like everyone has just given up.
No momentum, No desire!
We just don't seem to want it.


Cheers S
Click to expand...
I wonder if the staff and higher ups had caught wind of the desire to abandon the OPV series and go for Tier 2, rendering the OPV's a bit like the USN's LCS's- a make work class, so nobody cared anymore. Might not have helped it was already having troubles with the integration of the 40mm gun leading to abandonment of a decent multirole gun to large machine gun, sorry, 25mm typhoon. I mean I remember how excited people were with the OPV, it's much larger gun, and the clamour to get it even further upgunned. Now, maybe there are too many nails in this coff....ship over the last few years.
 
A

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
76mmGuns said:
I wonder if the staff and higher ups had caught wind of the desire to abandon the OPV series and go for Tier 2, rendering the OPV's a bit like the USN's LCS's- a make work class, so nobody cared anymore. Might not have helped it was already having troubles with the integration of the 40mm gun leading to abandonment of a decent multirole gun to large machine gun, sorry, 25mm typhoon. I mean I remember how excited people were with the OPV, it's much larger gun, and the clamour to get it even further upgunned. Now, maybe there are too many nails in this coff....ship over the last few years.
Click to expand...
What I love about the whole project is it Is an 1800t warship soon to be in-service with the Royal Australian Navy and it is out gunned by this…

IMG_0883.jpeg
 
DDG38

DDG38

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Wombat000 said:
Despite being an unsophisticated ship, they do at least appear to be quite sturdy.

They might actually be useful in potentially more ’rigorous Grey Zone’ activities?
I imagine if this was to occur, it might get complicated if it was an RAN vessel?

Perhaps there may be an incentive to create a genuine Coast Guard after all, and it might be interesting if this class of ship was its workhorse?
The Evolved Capes are good, they cover distance etc, but they are a bit ’lightly constructed’, correct?
Click to expand...
Any discussion of an Australian Coast Guard service should be banned from this thread up until the point where the RAN can comfortably man and operate the entire fleet. Otherwise you'll be robbing peter to pay paul.
 
W

Wombat000

Well-Known Member
DDG38 said:
Any discussion of an Australian Coast Guard service should be banned from this thread up until the point where the RAN can comfortably man and operate the entire fleet. Otherwise you'll be robbing peter to pay paul.
Click to expand...
i totally appreciate the point made.

If Grey Zone intimidation spreads to areas of interest involving Australia, and push does become shove, im thinking it would be ….messy if heavier foreign vessels muscle up to an actual naval vessel.
Isnt that the point of ‘below threshold‘ grey zone tactics currently employed, and arguably effective?

Whilst ECCPBs are great in longer ranging constabulary duties and patrol, they won’t really stand up to physical contacts, will they?

Presumably Border Force wont have extended jurisdiction in areas further afield, so what else is there?
 
S

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Wombat000 said:
i totally appreciate the point made.

If Grey Zone intimidation spreads to areas of interest involving Australia, and push does become shove, im thinking it would be ….messy if heavier foreign vessels muscle up to an actual naval vessel.
Isnt that the point of ‘below threshold‘ grey zone tactics currently employed, and arguably effective?

Whilst ECCPBs are great in longer ranging constabulary duties and patrol, they won’t really stand up to physical contacts, will they?

Presumably Border Force wont have extended jurisdiction in areas further afield, so what else is there?
Click to expand...
The Capes and the Arafuras are only constabulary vessels. They are designed for illegal fishing, search and rescue, and immigration control where interactions are uncontested. Which is fine as there is plenty (sometimes too much) of this type of work.

The first act in grey warfare is to move civilian boats into an area, such as fishing boats. These scenarios require potentially contested boarding (hostile crews with small arms that threaten to shoot back). When I was doing boarding parties we never executed a contested boarding as the risk of a casualty was too high.

Basic principle in any conflict situation is over match. An ECCP/Arafura is fine against an unarmed opponent. As soon as weapons are involved it becomes necessary to go up in weight.

In these situations we used a helo to maintain the high ground with special forces troops. This required resourcing from a frigate. HMAS Stewart did the Pong Su and had to run it down at high speed off the coast of NSW after four days chasing.

End outcome is grey warfare requires large surface combatants. They have the speed and the helo capability needed for this type of work. The ECCPs and Arafuras can't do this. The Arafura's might have been capable of this type of work if they had a hangar and a fully rated flight deck, plus a better top speed. But they don't.

The second act in grey warfare is to move in a coast guard cutter or Naval corvette to provide protection to the fishing boats. In these cases the ECCPs and Arafuras are well out of their depth and you need a frigate with some heavy weapons to push back. This is where the Philippines find themselves at the moment, and unfortunately can't escalate to a frigate.

I am of the view that grey warfare will come to our waters in time. Christmas/Cocos islands, great barrier reef, north west shelf and Abrolhos would all be targets. Our GPFs will be employed to deal with it. Good thing we are getting 11 of them as they will be busy.
 
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