I think the attached newspaper article is what you're alluding to? Do you have any concrete information about Japan's submarines just being kept for 20 years and then scrapped? Or any Japanese plans to give them to the Philippines for free? Even the US charges an minimal amount for the Hamilton's transfer to the Philippines?
Right now I still can't post links but you can easily google it and research it yourself. Japan is known to de-commission their submarines earlier than what most countries usually do.
Yep, that article and this too: Japan signs military agreement, pledges support for Philippines - The Japan Daily Press
It's a pipe dream that the Philippine navy can operate submarines, let alone SSK submarines. If they wanted SSK submarines, they would need to invest in infrastructure upgrades and maybe pay Germany, Spain or Sweden or Japan to train them on how to use Submarines. The cost of running an SSK would possibly break their bank.Right now I still can't post links but you can easily google it and research it yourself. Japan is known to de-commission their submarines earlier than what most countries usually do.
What they do with their 20 year or so subs is they convert some into trainer subs and the rest are scrapped esp. since they can't just sell those before to any country because of their self-imposed export ban.
I'm looking specifically at their Harushio-class submarine since that is their smallest and oldest models that they can possibly give to the Phils. and if I'm not mistaken there are still 2 that has not been either converted to trainer subs or scrapped already.
However, this is just my humble suggestion.
I just think it makes sense to first get 1-2 trainer subs converted from old subs like what Japan do and then get 1-2 2nd-hand subs for countries like the Phils. that has no experience whatsoever in operating submarines. Getting top-notch training from the Japs and developing their own submarine doctrines from the Japs would really be nice as well.
Yes, I misread what you wrote. The article that Icefrog is talking about is included here.
A 2nd-hand diesel-electric submarine is not a pipe dream. Besides, what they are aiming for are small-displacement subs meant only to patrol their littorals or go brown-water. People still have this notion that Philippines is still a 3rd-world country. It ain't anymore. If a country like Vietnam can buy (they ordered 6 Kilos) and operate Russian Kilo submarines a country that is richer than them and has more foreign reserves than Canada and Australia (you can look that up) can too - if they want too. But they won't go overboard like what Vietnam seems to be doing. Don't be surprised if they instead buy brand new subs as small as in the 550 tonne displacement if the old adage of buying 2nd-hand subs not being worth it is observed. They also fully know what happened with the 2nd-hand subs Singapore bought from Sweden and how much of a headache it was. Japanese subs may be an exemption since as I said they retire their subs much earlier and their theater of operation is in Asia-Pacific so it probably doesn't need "tropicalization" like those Swedish subs needed to be even useful to SG. The 2nd-hand German subs that Thailand were considering were said to be 35 year olds but said to only last another 6-7 years more. In theory, those 20 y.o. Japanese subs can still last 10-15 years or so, so depending on how much the Japs are willing to sell it at 2nd-hand prices it may still be worth it, esp. if it doesn't need major repairs or refurbishing.
Call it emerging market then but it means the same thing. Do not post rubbish in this forum.
We do not cater for children. Read what other moderators have kindly posted about the concept of foreign reserves (and the limitations to its usage) in other Philippine related threads.
Please don't post half digested idiotic rubbish about submarines here. There are actual submarines operators/commanders in this forum (or people in industry/government positions dealing with submarines), who know much more than me. You and your country do not and will not be given access to Japanese or Singaporean classified data sets about their submarines. Please do not pretend to know. Either you do know or you do not know. Have the humility to admit that you do not have access.
Wrong concept - pure rubbish in the links. Read up on the concept of full cycle refits. IIRC, full cycle refits occur every 6 years for Singapore's Challenger Class and every 7 years for the Collins Class. Refits is something that needs to be done to keep the submarine effective. And the Indonesians had their German built Type-209 (commissioned in 1981), KRI Cakra overhauled and upgraded by South Korea’s Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (DSME). Work for KRI Cakra was completed by mid-2006 at a cost of US$60 million. KRI Nanggala refit contract was awarded to DSME in 2009 and completed in 2012.
See above comment on full cycle refits. Stop posting and read more before posting.
I think a reality check is in order here.
Indonesian Tjakra and Nenggala, both over 30 years old, but after huge modification, overhaul, and upgrading with Daewoo, they can operate up to end of next decade if need be. This is the third overhaul being conducted to both submarines, First in Manfacturer facility in Germany, then in PAL Facility in Surabaya, and lastly in Daewoo facility. Despite PAL already able to conduct 209 overhaul in Surabaya, the last overhaul choosed being conducted with Daewoo, since Daewoo is license to build newer versions of 209 (Changbogo), thus can provide the upgrade for Indonesian 209 with some elements of Changbogo technology.
I provided the links and merely relayed it here. It did not came from me but from the Thais, if you think their assessment is wrong then it's your word against them and not your word against me. As per the article I quoted it was the Thai Navy Chief that said it - just to re-iterate it.
No, that's not my assessment. That's TNI-AL assessment and Daewoo assessment. I just summarize them from various sources. Since Daewoo already build submarine, and TNI-AL have more than 40 years operating Submarine, I tend to believe them as reliable.
Why let alone SSK submarines'? Do you know what an SSK is?
This is exactly what I am trying to drive at. Thank you.
They have been studying it for a long-time and their original time-line is 2020. Part of their study is it worth buying 2nd-hand subs and specifically mentioned a certain un-named south-east asian country that spent so much on those 2nd-hand subs they bought that it came out as if like buying a brand-new one. They don't want to make that same mistake. That is a mistake (whether that country admits it or not) that only rich countries can afford to make.
One thing you must realise is that Sub tech is a very closely guarded secret, especially by the Japanese.I doubt an "O" or "H" let alone a "S" boat are for sale by the Japanese.
Thanks, I merely suggested it - not saying it will absolutely happen.
I assume it is if you want one sub "on operations",one sub "working up the crew" and 2 in "different parts" of refit/maintenance the number is 4.
Each country follow diff. policies. Some follow the rule of 3. One "on operations",one for "training" or what you call "working up the crew" and one "on the shipyard" for maintenance or whatever.
Seriously, the Philippines is not ready for any type of submarines now or 2 to 3 years from now. I think (IMHO) they would probably be ready to dive-in into this new class of naval armament in 6 to 8 years? Just like somebody stated, there is so much preparation for submarine operations. The Phippine navy will be lucky if their sailors are proficient to operate the ships that they're planning to acquire now in the next 2 or 3 years. It takes time to be proficient in operating more modern ships. I think it is taking at least 6 months for Philippine sailors to learn how to operate those Hamiltons and those ships are at least 40+ years old.