Philippine Navy Discussion and Updates

dazzerler1

Banned Member
All good mate, meaningful debate sounds good to me, I just think "we" was in this case being used in a more general sense than as representing a government entity. But like I said, all good, we try not to get into politics too heavily on these forums, as I'm sure you can imagine this can cause threads to get out of hand quickly. Cheers for understanding.
25 Chinese ships still in Panatag - The Philippine Star » News » Headlines

Article from the Philippine newspaper about chinese ships that didn't leave the shoal afterall? I would think this is really a very serious matter as the chinese may already have built an structure to signify that shows ownership of the shoal? Looks like this is very similar and repetition of Mischief Reef?
 

ManilaBoy

Banned Member
25 Chinese ships still in Panatag - The Philippine Star » News » Headlines

Article from the Philippine newspaper about chinese ships that didn't leave the shoal afterall? I would think this is really a very serious matter as the chinese may already have built an structure to signify that shows ownership of the shoal? Looks like this is very similar and repetition of Mischief Reef?
This message probably belongs in the SCS News and Discussions section, it should be move there accordingly at moderators discretion. Back to Topic ...
 

dazzerler1

Banned Member
This message probably belongs in the SCS News and Discussions section, it should be move there accordingly at moderators discretion. Back to Topic ...
I totally disagree! How could it be separated when both topics talk about Philippine naval inadequacies in general and needs relative to the Spratlys and Scarborough Shoal? My post was dead-on topic unless you don't want to address applications of Philippine naval assets and related topics? It doesn't make sense to just address each topic on its own without touching upon other areas...both topics are basically the same or identical.
 

Zhaow

New Member
For the Philippine navy, they need a major makeover and in fact they need to start from scratch. If I were consulting for the Philippine navy as to how and what to reconstitute the Navy. I would first tell them to center their Navy around a Multi-Role Frigate with Light frigates, Corvettes, patrol boats and LPD's or LHA's. I would have them look for used and cheap navel vessels.

For a Multi-Role Frigates, I would tell the to look to a used Multi-role frigate from Italy such as the Maestrale class frigate, Lupo class frigate. The other option would be to look towards Russia such as the used Krivak class frigate or used Neustrashimyy class frigate.

For a light Frigate, Their current ex hamiltons they are buying from the US Coast Guard. I would have them modernize them to include Anti ship missiles such as Harpoons or exocet missiles. Getting either the Phalanx CIWS,Goalkeeper CIWS or the Kashtan CIWS. Light weight torpedos and 25 mm bushmaster cannon.

For Corvettes, I would look to South korea such as the Pohang class corvette because they are looking to replace the Pohang class corvette with the Incheon class frigate. It would a good idea to buy their used Pohang class corvette. The other option would be to go the Russian route and look at either the Steregushchy class corvette or the Gepard class frigate

For Patrol Boats, I would have them look to the US Coast Guard in getting their used 110 Island class Patrol Boats because the US Coast Guard is looking to replace their Island class patrol Boats with the Sentinal class FRC. The other option is to go to South Korea and look at getting the Gumdoksuri class patrol vessel or getting the Guaiquerí class patrol boat that the Venezuela navy is using right now.

For their LPD or LHA's I would have them look to Singapore for the Endurance class landing platform dock ship or look to South Korea's Makassar class landing platform dock.
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
For the Philippine navy, they need a major makeover and in fact they need to start from scratch. If I were consulting for the Philippine navy as to how and what to reconstitute the Navy. I would first tell them to center their Navy around a Multi-Role Frigate with Light frigates, Corvettes, patrol boats and LPD's or LHA's. I would have them look for used and cheap navel vessels.

For a Multi-Role Frigates, I would tell the to look to a used Multi-role frigate from Italy such as the Maestrale class frigate, Lupo class frigate. The other option would be to look towards Russia such as the used Krivak class frigate or used Neustrashimyy class frigate.

For a light Frigate, Their current ex hamiltons they are buying from the US Coast Guard. I would have them modernize them to include Anti ship missiles such as Harpoons or exocet missiles. Getting either the Phalanx CIWS,Goalkeeper CIWS or the Kashtan CIWS. Light weight torpedos and 25 mm bushmaster cannon.

For Corvettes, I would look to South korea such as the Pohang class corvette because they are looking to replace the Pohang class corvette with the Incheon class frigate. It would a good idea to buy their used Pohang class corvette. The other option would be to go the Russian route and look at either the Steregushchy class corvette or the Gepard class frigate

For Patrol Boats, I would have them look to the US Coast Guard in getting their used 110 Island class Patrol Boats because the US Coast Guard is looking to replace their Island class patrol Boats with the Sentinal class FRC. The other option is to go to South Korea and look at getting the Gumdoksuri class patrol vessel or getting the Guaiquerí class patrol boat that the Venezuela navy is using right now.

For their LPD or LHA's I would have them look to Singapore for the Endurance class landing platform dock ship or look to South Korea's Makassar class landing platform dock.
Maybe they should look at leasing USS Kittyhawk. This would lead to a quantum leap in capability for their entire defence for and allow them to counter China without resorting to outside help.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
For a Multi-Role Frigates, I would tell the to look to a used Multi-role frigate from Italy such as the Maestrale class frigate, Lupo class frigate. The other option would be to look towards Russia such as the used Krivak class frigate or used Neustrashimyy class frigate.
While they are at it, why don't they also arrange with the Russian government to get Kirov class cruisers. And to provide them with a means of hitting Beijing, Hainan and Shanghai they should also get Backfire bombers and Bears - then the Chinese would think twice about confronting the Philippine Navy again in the Spratleys.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
Maybe they should look at leasing USS Kittyhawk. This would lead to a quantum leap in capability for their entire defence for and allow them to counter China without resorting to outside help.
Why? The KItty Hawk would be a sitting duck without a trained crew and air group. The Philippines have neither.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Why? The KItty Hawk would be a sitting duck without a trained crew and air group. The Philippines have neither.
Its not meant to be taken literally, he’s taking the piss out of it,




But I do wonder how long it would take to bring Kitty Hawk out of the ready reserve fleet if needed?
 

Belesari

New Member
Its not meant to be taken literally, he’s taking the piss out of it,
Why wont anyone accept that smaller nations especially ones like the Phil. with terrible corruption, a ongoing insurgency and such dont have the ability, training, experience to buy, operate, train and equipe these modern friagtes, destroyers and such.

Lets help them crush that insurgency first THEN we can move on.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Why wont anyone accept that smaller nations especially ones like the Phil. with terrible corruption, a ongoing insurgency and such dont have the ability, training, experience to buy, operate, train and equipe these modern friagtes, destroyers and such.

Lets help them crush that insurgency first THEN we can move on.
Hey, I am all fore countries having the ability to have a self sustaining defence force no arguments there. Like most countries they need outside help, but we should also get fair dinkum do you really think that Kitty Hawk is going to help. They have started on the right track looking into such things Makassar class LPD which I believe gives PN more options than an oversize LPH that Kitty Hawk would become. If the UK are struggling to have a 2 modern Supercarrier in service how would the PN go with one built in 1956 and has not had a refit since 2006.
 

dazzerler1

Banned Member
While they are at it, why don't they also arrange with the Russian government to get Kirov class cruisers. And to provide them with a means of hitting Beijing, Hainan and Shanghai they should also get Backfire bombers and Bears - then the Chinese would think twice about confronting the Philippine Navy again in the Spratleys.
This is really funny! But seriously, what would it take for the Philippines to acquire a meaningful minimal array of armaments for them to be taken seriously and how much will it costs them to procure these assets?
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Lets help them crush that insurgency first THEN we can move on.
If you're refering to the ongoing problem with the MILF, which has been ongoing for decades, it can't be crushed militarily for a number of reasons - it has to be part of a political settlement. There is a peace process which however is moving very slowly. The ongoing problems in the south aside, the government has to start concentrating on external defence and this is what it is statring to do.
 
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fretburner

Banned Member
Name some sectors fretburner!
Department of Agriculture
Department of Education
Department of Health
Department of Public Works and Highways

Just to name a few... I can really go on and on...

If defense is not the number priority then stop complaining if your country is being bullied and you can't protect what you're claiming to be your territory (Spratly, Scarborough Shoal, etc)
Look...

Even if the Philippine government spent 20% of its budget on Defense, if China really wanted to invade the Philippines, it still won't be able to prevent it from doing so.

So I would say, focus on education and continue to strengthen the economy without sacrificing the ability to provide for the country's basic services. Spend wisely on defense to make it extra difficult for an invader to establish a beach head - or make it costly for them to do so - and buy some good ISR assets. I would like to believe that one can still send pictures/videos to the UN security council should a country like China escalates things.
 

dazzerler1

Banned Member
Department of Agriculture
Department of Education
Department of Health
Department of Public Works and Highways

Just to name a few... I can really go on and on...



Look...

Even if the Philippine government spent 20% of its budget on Defense, if China really wanted to invade the Philippines, it still won't be able to prevent it from doing so.

So I would say, focus on education and continue to strengthen the economy without sacrificing the ability to provide for the country's basic services. Spend wisely on defense to make it extra difficult for an invader to establish a beach head - or make it costly for them to do so - and buy some good ISR assets. I would like to believe that one can still send pictures/videos to the UN security council should a country like China escalates things.

I can see your point. However, the military hardware is not to go to war with any country let alone against China. It is for deterrence and to guard the Spratly's so China will not steal all the islands. Even the entire ASEAN countries militaries are no match with China. China will never invade any of the ASEAN countries. China's objective is to own and control the entire South China Sea. China is an voting member of the UN security council, so what do you think will happen, so sending pictures or videos to the UN will do what?
 

Belesari

New Member
Their wont be any need for pictures and video's to the UN the US, Japan, Australia, and others would be in the fray.

The UN cant do anything besides send nastily worded letters.

What the PN needs is a military capable of securing and patroling its economic zone. Which is what the hamiltons main job is.

Look at the LCS. No one thinks it can ever fight the chinese. It wasnt ment to. I may believe its screwed up but the idea is right. The PN needs presence in the waters it controls or wants to control. So it can spend all of its budget on Modern Frigates and helicopter carriers and subs (of which it couldnt get them not in any realistic number) and have those ships..............sit in port because there arent enough or it could Maybe patrol sometimes.

Ships need down time like any other equipment. So do people. So if it can get the hamiltons it can set up a steady rotation and manage to have a presence in its waters all the time.

Focus on securing your EEZ and territorial waters, Modernize your transportation systems (roads and such they are in many ways the keys to commerce), boost your peoples economic, political and finacial futures. And over time modernize and get bigger.

China is able to get that massive navy because it has a massive economic machine.

"The sinews of war are infinite money."
~Marcus Tullius Cicero



I can see your point. However, the military hardware is not to go to war with any country let alone against China. It is for deterrence and to guard the Spratly's so China will not steal all the islands. Even the entire ASEAN countries militaries are no match with China. China will never invade any of the ASEAN countries. China's objective is to own and control the entire South China Sea. China is an voting member of the UN security council, so what do you think will happen, so sending pictures or videos to the UN will do what?
 

SpartanSG

New Member
I just don't believe that (IMHO) the government of the Philippines is putting enough effort to alleviate their military morass.
That is basically the crux of the issue.

Remember the Mischief Reef incident from 1994 when PRC built structures on a reef claimed by the Philippines (It is in Philippines EEZ)?

IIRC, that happened shortly after the USN got kicked out of Subic Bay by the Philippines government. With the USN gone, the Philippines was left to defend their own territorial claims by their own military. And so, PRC started building structures on Mischief Reef in 1994. It took months before the Chinese built structures were discovered by the Philippines.

Between 1994 and 2011 (until Scarborough Shoal), what has the Philippines government done to make sure they have the capability to prevent a repeat of Mischief Reef? But it seems to me that Scarborough Shoal is turning out to be Mischief Reef II.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
 

dazzerler1

Banned Member
Latest News Articles and Updates from the official website of the PN including the recent visit of the US Pacific Fleet commander Admiral Haney at it's headquarters ...

The Philippine Navy Today

So in a nutshell, what is the summary of "The Philippine Navy Today"? I would like to know what are being planned, purchases, actions being taken, etc. that are improvements to the navy as far as protecting or deterring actions of outside/foreign forces inside Philippine territorial waters.
 

icefrog

New Member
Japan and Philippines just signed some sort of military agreement and some articles are saying that help from Japan would be to help the Phils improve it's maritime in particular.

This and Japan's recent lifting of their ban on military exports last Dec. 2011 should pave the way for them to give Philippines some needed 2nd-hand submarines.

Japan mostly only keep their subs not more than 20 years and then they just scrap it. Most countries keep their subs at least for 30 years. Just sell some of those to Phils. plus 1-2 trainer subs as well.
 
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