Philippine Navy Discussion and Updates

StevoJH

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Would even something like a modern fishing trawler with a stabilised gun up the front (or even an old 40mm boffers) and davits for RHIB's on the rear work deck be sufficient for most patrol tasks?

They would presumably be quite cheap to purchase, and the RHIB's on the back would be used for interception.
 
S

Sea Toby

New Member
Zhaow said:
Here's pictures of what Ingalls Shipbuilding is proposing as a frigate based upon the designs of the US Coast Guard National Security Cutter design.. It's also what their proposing if the US Congress kills the LCS program.

PF 4501
http://dmn.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/PF-4501.jpg

PF 4921
http://dmn.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/PF-4921.jpg
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The LCS program has met some difficulties, but in the overall picture at the present time the US Navy doesn't want frigates. More than likely if the LCS program was cancelled, the US Navy would acquire the Spanish BAM multi-role vessel, or something similar. Minehunting in the Navy's eyes is more important than mid ocean convoy or replenishment groups ASW escorts. The US Navy has always seen frigates as undersized destroyers. The whole purpose of the LCS is to design a frigate and minehunting replacement with a single ship design to save lots of money. The US Navy won't have changed their mind about frigates if the LCS fails.




While I am sure Ingalls would love to build 40 or so frigates, I am sure the US Navy would rather build BAMs with LCS weapons systems. What the US Navy doesn't want to do is place destroyer weapons on frigates.
 
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ASSAIL

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
StevoJH said:
Would even something like a modern fishing trawler with a stabilised gun up the front (or even an old 40mm boffers) and davits for RHIB's on the rear work deck be sufficient for most patrol tasks?
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The problem with modern FV's are that the majority are limited to a max speed of between 9 - 12 kts with the majority at the lower end. This is purely an economic consideration in order the minimize fuel consumption. In addition most trawler type vessels are designed to tow so a 3:1 length to beam ration is the ideal which totally compromises speed.

The plus side of the equation is that comfort and endurance are better than PB's.

The Aus Gov website for BPC lists the following roles for that command:
- Illegal exploitation of natural resources,
- Illegal activity in a protected area,
- Unauthorized marine arrivals,
- Prohibited imports and exports,
- Marine terrorism,
- Piracy robbery and violence at sea,
- Compromise of bio-security, and;
- Marine pollution.

As you can see, for the majority of those roles, speed is not an issue for oz BPC because we do not have sophisticated piracy, drug running on our Northern littorals but, you can bet your life that if we commissioned a fleet of tortoises it would take only a few years for our opponents to "speed up". Still we could certainly use a second tier of less capable ships to beef hull nos and if the had air assets they could be v.useful.

This all assumes that the Armidales and their successors will only ever be tasked to BPC which patently is not the case. A couple of Harpoon canisters replacing the RHIBS would turn the Armidales into a potent mosquito in a littoral exchange in our northern achipelagos.

This off course tranlates to the Phillipines with the caveat that the adversaries in their archipelagos are already using "fast" boats although they may not enjoy the air cover that is available to OZ Border Protection Command

Cheers
 
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StevoJH

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
When I wrote that, I had no idea (and have no idea) what air support is available to the Phillipines Border patrol formations.

My understanding is that in the Australian context, JORN and Aerial Assets do the locating, with the Bay and Armidale class PB's providing the 'response',

*If* the Phillipines has aircraft patrolling their EEZ, whether helicoptor or light fixed wing, my thoughts were that given the fact that their issue seems to be mostly in the littoral, they could possibly get away with using the converted fishing boats as motherships for the RHIB's, which lets face it, can do 40+ knots quite easily with a decent engine on the back.

With the Cape class appearing to be quite similar in capability to the Armidale class it looks like BPC will be experiencing a step change in their capability as long as enough are procured to compensate for the probable removal of the Armidale class from their current taskings.
 
ASSAIL

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
StevoJH said:
With the Cape class appearing to be quite similar in capability to the Armidale class it looks like BPC will be experiencing a step change in their capability as long as enough are procured to compensate for the probable removal of the Armidale class from their current taskings.
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This needs to be in the RAN thread but I don't know how to do that (Mods Help Please)

The last capabliity review has just reaffirmed that BPC tasking will remain at 7 Armidales/OPV's available to deploy with a capacity to surge to 9. (we discussed that a few weeks ago I think, SEA 1180)? Sorry too tired to check:unknown
The Cape class replace the Bays on a one for one basis so total hull units remain unchanged.
Improvements in capability will obviously lead to increased effort
 
B

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
ASSAIL said:
This needs to be in the RAN thread but I don't know how to do that (Mods Help Please)

The last capabliity review has just reaffirmed that BPC tasking will remain at 7 Armidales/OPV's available to deploy with a capacity to surge to 9. (we discussed that a few weeks ago I think, SEA 1180)? Sorry too tired to check:unknown
The Cape class replace the Bays on a one for one basis so total hull units remain unchanged.
Improvements in capability will obviously lead to increased effort
Click to expand...
I've copied this post into the RAN thread for you, cheers mate. :)
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
LIFT is Priority for PAF.

Hope it's alright with the Mod's in here. I know this thread supposed to talk for Philipines Navy. However since the Thread for Philipine Air Force (PAF) currently being locked (with good reasons), I just add some news on PAF Priority if this is alright.

From Philipine Information Agency (PIA) : PIA | Philippine Information Agency | PAF getting new planes

Just to highlight some important point in the article:

Okol said the highest priority is the revival of the country’s Air Defense System (ADS) which is in the form of Lead-in Fighter Trainers (LIFT)-Surface Attack Aircraft (SAA) role to be used for territorial defense as well as infrastructure

Okol said PAF is prioritizing the resurgence of its capability by acquiring leading multi-role fighter jets and other aircraft with disaster response capability. “If we already have a hundred fighter planes then we can revive the Blue Diamonds,” he said.
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Just want to highlights that the Philipine AF High Command, knows what's the priority for PAF right now, which is back to basic.

Thus even some comments in the forum (especially from new members) think that PAF can jump straight to fast jets operations with fancy toys like F-16, Mirage 200, Flankres etc, the PAF command knows they have to 'regain' the basics first, after so many years of neglect (due to budgetary and political situations).

Hope this will put an end on what's priority for PAF at this moment, since the brass in PAF already point out, 'back to basic first' and regain the infrastructure and know-how for fast jets operations.
 
C

colay

New Member
A nice little boat.. She's quite fast and reminds me of a WW2 PT boat only bulkier .Maybe they can hang some torpedo launchers along each side. Withthat kind of hull, I don't think damage control is going to be an issue, though.
:D

PN commissions newest 'Multi-Purpose Attack Craft' on 114th anniversary - ZamboTimes

MANILA — As part of its 114th founding anniversary, the Philippine Navy (PN) commissioned its newest "Multi-Purpose Attack Craft" (MPAC) on Tuesday...
The MPAC, of which the PN has 14 in active service, is 16.5 meters long, 4.76 meters wide and has a draft of one meter and a top speed of 45 knots. It has a range 300 nautical miles.
Col. Omar Tonsay, PN spokesperson, said that the hull is made of welded ammunition and is crewed by one officer and four enlisted personnel. It is capable of carrying 16 fully-equipped troopers or two tons of cargo.

He added that the MPAC is capable of operating in territorial waters up to "Sea State 3" (slight waves) without any system degradation..
 
M

ManilaBoy

Banned Member
colay said:
A nice little boat.. She's quite fast and reminds me of a WW2 PT boat only bulkier .Maybe they can hang some torpedo launchers along each side. Withthat kind of hull, I don't think damage control is going to be an issue, though.
:D

PN commissions newest 'Multi-Purpose Attack Craft' on 114th anniversary - ZamboTimes

MANILA — As part of its 114th founding anniversary, the Philippine Navy (PN) commissioned its newest "Multi-Purpose Attack Craft" (MPAC) on Tuesday...
The MPAC, of which the PN has 14 in active service, is 16.5 meters long, 4.76 meters wide and has a draft of one meter and a top speed of 45 knots. It has a range 300 nautical miles.
Col. Omar Tonsay, PN spokesperson, said that the hull is made of welded ammunition and is crewed by one officer and four enlisted personnel. It is capable of carrying 16 fully-equipped troopers or two tons of cargo.

He added that the MPAC is capable of operating in territorial waters up to "Sea State 3" (slight waves) without any system degradation..
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I believed there is an error on the above article which claims that there are 14 MPAC in active service instead of just 4 with 2 additional units due for delivery before the end of 2012 ...
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
ManilaBoy said:
I believed there is an error on the above article which claims that there are 14 MPAC in active service instead of just 4 with 2 additional units due for delivery before the end of 2012 ...
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Maybe a strange question, but why are these MPACs not armed?
 
M

ManilaBoy

Banned Member
Sandhi Yudha said:
Thanks for the link!
2 x 7,62 mm right?
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Your welcome, here is a recent news article regarding a statement by a high ranking official of the PN in it's need for more larger patrol vessels to protect the nations vast maritime areas ...

DEFENSE STUDIES: PH Navy Needs Bigger Warships

The PN has set up a naval blockade along the coast of Zamboanga peninsula in the southern part of the archipelago to prevent the kidnappers of 2 Chinese businessmen from escaping ...

Maritime News Update @ BERNAMA.com
 
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F

floodlight

New Member
HKP said:
I think its better for the PN just to acquire new ships from local builders there, some say it will be more expensive but its new and the cheap used ones can also be expensive later to maintain. Plus acquiring within local ship industry will create more jobs for Filipinos who in turn will pay more taxes, etc. It also will be better for the PN to start thinking buying mini subs for part of its external defense. As you can see the sinking of the South Korean ship by an identified sub was just an example how vulnerable surface ships are and how effective submarines are, that sub did not only cut the SK ship into half and killed almost all of its crew but also got away with it still unidentified although most likely the NORKOR did it. So the PN in near future as part of its modernization should have at least 2 to 4 mini or midsize subs. Vietnam I believe has 2 full size diesel class from Russia.
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I agree. We have available and capable ship builders in our country why not tap them? And besides, if these ship builders will be given the chance to build naval ships, we do not just provide them jobs, they will even be challenged to learn the latest technical-know-how of making naval ship. After WWII, China's Naval Force was even ill-fitted than ours, but through the years of building and through the years of learning, China's Naval Ship builders are now among the world top builders. Why not start our own? Why not use our own instead of just buying and purchasing from others? You know after a couple of decades, these new bought ships will be outdated again. So we will buy new ship again and again. But if we develop our own, having naval ships someday would not be as hard and as difficult as compared today. Besides, if we will developed the ship building industry, having new and advanced ship 20 years from now will not be a big problem. Of course as of now, starting our own would not be easy. But i believe on the capability of the Filipinos. I witness how we are able to cope problems and rise out of it. Facing the difficulty of starting our own Naval Ship building industry can be overcome. If other country can, why can't we? It would be better to face the hardship of starting our own for a few decades, rather than facing the agony of buying new ships forever.

To our government, to our beloved President P-Noy, to our Philippine Navy, give our own people the break. Give them the chance. They have so much in them to show and to prove. They can, we can. Instead of just buying, let's build our own, and we need to think about it now and start it soon. :grab
 
F

fretburner

Banned Member
floodlight said:
To our government, to our beloved President P-Noy, to our Philippine Navy, give our own people the break. Give them the chance. They have so much in them to show and to prove. They can, we can. Instead of just buying, let's build our own, and we need to think about it now and start it soon. :grab
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Have you made this cost analysis -- building new OPVs versus buying used and virtually for free?

Also, can you name me any President who's bought more military equipment after Marcos?

FYI, we are already building ships for the PN. Just not these 1,000 Ton Patrol Vessels from Japan nor the ex-Hamilton-Class ships.
 
B

Belesari

New Member
The problem is the PN doesnt have the expertise in building largeish warships. Build the smaller ones for now work your way up.

Plus you dont have over a billion people you can effecticely rule with aboslute power like these chinese did. Plus your going to have to build the shipyards to do it with and the equipment. Then fund that and the research. Then maybe in 20 years you'll be launching a few very expensive ships....

Designing and building warships isnt as easy as people seem to think it is.


floodlight said:
I agree. We have available and capable ship builders in our country why not tap them? And besides, if these ship builders will be given the chance to build naval ships, we do not just provide them jobs, they will even be challenged to learn the latest technical-know-how of making naval ship. After WWII, China's Naval Force was even ill-fitted than ours, but through the years of building and through the years of learning, China's Naval Ship builders are now among the world top builders. Why not start our own? Why not use our own instead of just buying and purchasing from others? You know after a couple of decades, these new bought ships will be outdated again. So we will buy new ship again and again. But if we develop our own, having naval ships someday would not be as hard and as difficult as compared today. Besides, if we will developed the ship building industry, having new and advanced ship 20 years from now will not be a big problem. Of course as of now, starting our own would not be easy. But i believe on the capability of the Filipinos. I witness how we are able to cope problems and rise out of it. Facing the difficulty of starting our own Naval Ship building industry can be overcome. If other country can, why can't we? It would be better to face the hardship of starting our own for a few decades, rather than facing the agony of buying new ships forever.

To our government, to our beloved President P-Noy, to our Philippine Navy, give our own people the break. Give them the chance. They have so much in them to show and to prove. They can, we can. Instead of just buying, let's build our own, and we need to think about it now and start it soon. :grab
Click to expand...
 
A

Andri F

Banned Member
Belesari said:
The problem is the PN doesnt have the expertise in building largeish warships. Build the smaller ones for now work your way up.

Plus you dont have over a billion people you can effecticely rule with aboslute power like these chinese did. Plus your going to have to build the shipyards to do it with and the equipment. Then fund that and the research. Then maybe in 20 years you'll be launching a few very expensive ships....

Designing and building warships isnt as easy as people seem to think it is.
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Just an idea but why not fit the BRP Mariano Alvarez with AESA radar and all our other smaller fast attack crafts with anti-ship missiles. The Alvarez's radar will guide the anti-ships to their targets. Sort of like a mobile land-based air defense system only its in water and it fires Harpoons. We could complement the "Fleet Deterrent Force" with anti-air attack crafts and anti-submarine warfare crafts.

Then we could make our very own later: small, fast, stealthy and powerful
 
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