Pakistan Navy (PN) News, Updates & Discussions

[contedicavour]

According to the PakDef IDEAS 2006 report, the corvette tender will likely not be opened before the SSK requirement is finalized. I heard the U214 deal is supposed to be inked by the end of this year.

A potential imminent order for Gowind by Bulgaria will certainly increase DCN's chances of selling the corvettes to Pakistan. With no Gowind planned for the French Navy itself, there is a strong need for a launch customer. That's why Sarkozy was this week in Bulgaria

cheers

 

[Spacearrow99]

The Bulgarians would be paying 225 ME per ship. Since, Gowinds are derived from the FREMM, their R&D costs shouldn't be that high, meaning more profits for DCNS. The Gowind 200 can fire the Aster 30; most covettes don't have that type of capability. The 3 types of Gowinds have more selling potential than the Fremms. They are way more affordable than the Fremms, but they have many of the Fremm abilities.

 

[BilalK]

According to DCN, the Gowind 200, 170 and 120 can fire one of MICA-VL and Aster-15 - not Aster-30. However for a ship as small as Gowind 120, loading Aster-15 is a real feat.

 

[Spacearrow99]

I got the Aster 30 information from meretmarine; they usually have very accurate reporting.

 

[nero]

.

the MEKO A-200 deal will strengthen the pakistani navy manifold

also in the near future Pakistan may be receiving more Jiangwei-II-class frigates.

.

 

[contedicavour]

I got the Aster 30 information from meretmarine; they usually have very accurate reporting.

One thing is being able to fire Aster-30 from VLS, another thing is to have an EMPAR or Herakles type radar + long range AAW radar to guide them. If we can't fully profit from Aster 30s from the FREMM AAW/Freda that is a 7,000tonner how would you expect that to be feasible from a small corvette ??

cheers

 

[Spacearrow99]

Herakles range is 250km not 150km.

 

[tphuang]

Herakles range is 250km not 150km.

There is a huge difference between search range and effective range against different types of targets. It's 200 km vs aircraft and 60 vs missiles. Plus, there is also the range that is 2D search and 3D search for area tracking. In order to provide guidance for Aster, you will need the latter (ie: actually tracking the object). The range for that is 80 km and I think even that is vs large sized targets. So in the end, you won't be able to utilize Aster 30's maximum range. There are reasons why you don't see Aster 30 on Formidable class, a larger ship than Gowind.

 

[Spacearrow99]

That maybe the case for the Formidable class. The Fremm will have have a more advanced Herkales radar.

 

[tphuang]

That maybe the case for the Formidable class. The Fremm will have have a more advanced Herkales radar.

That maybe so, but you still won't get the same range with 2D volume search and 3D tracking search. But my dislike toward Herakles have been voiced in the past already, I'm not going to continue down the road here.

 

[Spacearrow99]

You believe your data. I don't kfnow were you got it from?

 

[Spacearrow99]

You believe your data. The Herakles can launch Aster 30 according to Thales. Where are you getting your supposely factual data from?

 

[tphuang]

You believe your data. The Herakles can launch Aster 30 according to Thales. Where are you getting your supposely factual data from?

read what I said, I said it won't be able to use maximum range of Aster 30, not that it can't launch Aster 30. anyhow, I'm out of this particular topic.

 

[Spacearrow99]

My bad, the Fredas will have longer ranged version of the Herakles, along with a higher level of computering power, for engaging targets.

 

[Transient]

The Herakles has a max search range of 200/250km (accounts differ), while local air defense coverage will be up to 80km. Both can be conducted simultaneously. Considering that the Aster 30's engagement envelope against supersonic missiles to 15-25 km, against fighter ground attack aircraft to 35-45 km, and out to 100 km against MPAs, the 80km local air defense coverage range is more than enough for most of the target set, and covers most of the available range of the Aster 30 against MPAs.

 

[contedicavour]

The Herakles has a max search range of 200/250km (accounts differ), while local air defense coverage will be up to 80km. Both can be conducted simultaneously. Considering that the Aster 30's engagement envelope against supersonic missiles to 15-25 km, against fighter ground attack aircraft to 35-45 km, and out to 100 km against MPAs, the 80km local air defense coverage range is more than enough for most of the target set, and covers most of the available range of the Aster 30 against MPAs.

Yes, though you would still need a 3D long range air search radar to track jets 300-400km away if you want to have a real AAW ship.
Installing Aster 30 and Empar or Herakles costs 200-250 million euro per ship (depending on the version of the radar and on the number of VLS cells), so before putting an underutilized weapons system aboard a FFG or corvette I would think twice !!

cheers

 

[Transient]

Of course, a real AAW ship would require an additional long range sensor. But then you would come up against cost and displacement constraints, unless these aren't constraints in the first place. As a matter of fact, the Gowind 200 design is really able to fire the Aster 30s, as DCN claims in the Jane's IDR article "DCN hopes Gowind surface combatants will propel market for corvette exports " of September 2005.

 

[IceCold]

Dive depth: for the 214 it is 400m against the 300 of the Scorpene.
Endurance : for the 214 is 84 days against the 50 for the DCN submarine. You then have the operating range: 12,000 nautical miles for the 214 v 6,400 miles for the Scropene and that is travelling at an efficient 8 knots.
In terms of payload : the 214 can hold more being the bigger sub and has 8 torpedo tubes in comparison to the Scorpene six.

According to what i can dig out from the internet the U-214 have defentine advantage over the scorpene in terms of capability, but going for a new suppiler over your previous reliable source makes me wonder what exactly is going through the PN mind? The submarine section of the Navy had already raised its eyebrows over the functioning and performance of the U0214 subs. Some people have already approached the Senate Standing Committee raising many issues regarding its bad performance.
I think france is also using its influence. This maybe the reason that the meeting to discuss vasrious technical issues with the german team scheduled on september 22 didnt take place and is postponed to november. Seems like french wouldnt let go the contract that easily without putting up a fight.

 

[contedicavour]

Of course, a real AAW ship would require an additional long range sensor. But then you would come up against cost and displacement constraints, unless these aren't constraints in the first place. As a matter of fact, the Gowind 200 design is really able to fire the Aster 30s, as DCN claims in the Jane's IDR article "DCN hopes Gowind surface combatants will propel market for corvette exports " of September 2005.

Sure, but it's a bit like fitting gold plated decoration to a rusty old tanker - ie it makes no sense whatsoever. Just buy a FREMM then !!

cheers

 

[Transient]

Cost. The full extent of Aster 30 capabilities may not be utilised, but that doesn't mean that using Aster 30 does not provide any advantage over using Aster 15s alone. If money was not a problem, of course a FREMM would be more desirable than a Gowind.