Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[mysterious]

Pakistan negotiating strings attached to F-16s deal
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan is negotiating over strict conditions attached by the United States to a proposed multi-billion dollar deal to supply the Pakistani air force with F-16 warplanes, defence officials said on Tuesday.

The Bush administration formally notified Congress on June 28 of plans to sell Pakistan up to 36 new “Fighting Falcon” warplanes, and the formal sale agreement was expected to have been signed by end-August.

The proposed sale had included upgrades for Pakistan’s fleet of 34 earlier model F-16s and a support package for up to 26 refurbished F-16s that Pakistan may eventually buy.

“Negotiations are on and once the details are sorted out, further progress will be made,” Air Commodore Sarfaraz Ahmed Khan, spokesman of for the Pakistan Air Force, said.

Washington has demanded what it calls unprecedented steps to stop the technology of the advanced F-16s, their spare parts and munitions from falling into the hands of third countries — notably China, which has close military ties to Pakistan.

John Hillen, the assistant secretary of state for political-military affairs, told Congress on July 20 the United States had also proposed that F-16 flights outside Pakistani air space, including for exercises with other countries, must be approved by the US government in advance.

Hillen said the transfer of technology safeguards inserted in the contract were “unprecedented”.

Lockheed Martin Corp builds the F-16, but Boeing Co, Raytheon Co, Northrop-Gumman Corp and General Electric Co are other principal contractors involved in the deal.

Hillen, in his testimony to the House of Representatives’ International Relations Committee, also disclosed that the United States was withholding unspecified technologies “that would usually go with an F-16,” including ones that would let it “be used in offensive ways to penetrate air space of another country that was highly defended”.

Pakistan’s Air Chief, Air Chief Marshal, Tanvir Mahmood Khan, told a newspaper on last Friday: “We are quite satisfied with the current F-16 proposal.”

“Notwithstanding the ongoing F-16 negotiations, every aircraft deal has preconditions. Mostly these pertain to restrictions on transfer of technology, more akin to copyright laws,” he added.

Though the air force spokesperson did not specify the terms and conditions under negotiation, other officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, suggested more talking was needed on the conditions set by Washington before Pakistan is fully satisfied.

In his testimony Hillen highlighted that Pakistan’s F-16 fleet and its munitions would be segregated from aircraft supplied by other countries, so that unauthorised engineers could not get access to the US planes.

He also said US personnel would carry out inventories of the F-16s and their associated systems every six months. Reuters

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\09\27\story_27-9-2006_pg7_29

Looks like the F-16 deal is set for a lengthy negotiating round and it would be quite a while before things get finalized.

 

[uaf]

You'll get your answer if you read one of the two articles above

Buddy there is not any J-10 related news at all ..... and by the way i was trying to get opinions regarding J-10

 

[falconlover81]

Ok now the deal has been put off , what's next ?? ( although i was not a big supporter of such a deal with multiple restrictions )

http://thedailystar.net/2006/09/24/d609241310126.htm


Signing of F-16 deal after Musharraf’s return’

By Hanif Khalid
ISLAMABAD: Agreement for the purchase of F-16 aircraft from the United States will be signed after President Gen Pervez Musharraf returns from his current foreign tour while induction of F-17 Thunder jets in the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) will begin by mid of next year.
“Initially, 150 F-17 Thunder jets will be inducted in the PAF,” Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed told The News in an exclusive chat. “The testing of avionics and weaponry of this aircraft is going on successfully,” he said.

The PAF chief said the F-17 Thunder jets, which are being manufactured jointly by China and Pakistan, would gradually replace other fighter aircraft of the PAF and Pakistan would also export these modern jets to friendly countries because such a modern aircraft is not available in the market at such a low price. He said that when the president returns from abroad, the US offer of F-16 jets and an agreement to acquire this aircraft would be considered under the guidance of General Musharraf and a final decision would be taken with his approval.

Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood said that the F-16 jets Pakistan is going to acquire now would be more modern than the Falcon aircraft currently being flown by the PAF. “Keeping in view the defence needs of the country, we are going to purchase the aircraft that can counter the capabilities of our adversary,” he remarked. “

These used aircraft will be fitted with the latest avionics and weaponry,” he added.

The PAF chief reiterated that Pakistan has no offensive ambitions but the Pakistan Air Force is fully capable of foiling nefarious designs of an enemy. He said the officers and airmen of the PAF are fully committed to the security of the country’s aerial frontiers. He said the PAF, which is considered one of the best air powers of the world, is always busy in professional training to meet the challenges of a war.

He said the PAF now has seven woman pilots, who have the world-class professional expertise.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=25790

Uaf even if i agree with u on ur remark about the f-16 deal being put off u must have a valid point to make after reading this piece of news because it is straight from the air marshal himself

 

[LordoftheLord]

Breaking News!!!!!!!!!

Pakistan sign deal on sale of new F-16s
October 2, 2006 (by Asif Shamim) - The Pakistani Air Force announced today the signing of an agreement between the Pakistani and U.S. governments for the US to provide 18 new F-16 fighter jets to the country.

The deal also includes the upgraded of the current 32 F-16s in the fleet and air-to-air and air-to-ground weaponry, the air force said in a statement.

In July, the US Defence Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress that the F-16s would come with 200 Sidewinder and 500 AIM-120C5 air-to-air missiles plus 800 general purpose 2,000 and 500-pound bombs.

The two governments signed the letter of offer and acceptance in Islamabad on Saturday. Sept 30, but it is not clear when these new fighters would be delivered to Pakistan.

One diplomatic source was quoted to have said, "Under the deal, even a day’s delay could have caused an increase of more than $140 million in the price". The same source also suggested some differences on the money Pakistan had to pay up front. "All the differences, on payment installations, on technical restrictions, have been resolved to satisfactory level," he said.

Asked to define the level of satisfaction, the source said: "Both sides had to accommodate each other before they reached an understanding".

The signing has taken place, even though in the recent weeks several news agencies have reported a delay in pen going to paper due to the US imposing new conditions on the sale. It has been suggested that the jets in question did not have or had reduced electronic warfare (EW) capabilities, which Pakistan had serious issues with.

This jet deal goes back to the 1980s, when Washington initially agreed to sell further F-16s, only to scrap the accord after sanctions were applied on Pakistan for pursuing it’s nuclear weapons program.

Does it mean there will be no Restriction on pakistan?? and when will we get them??:dance :dbanana

 

[LordoftheLord]

why dont i see replies from pakistani bros with full of joy!

 

[BilalK]

http://www.pakdef.info/forum/showpost.php?p=93089&postcount=17

This interview appeared on Daily Jang and was also shown on ARY ONE. This is a translated version from Daily Jang.

Translation Courtesy - Sarmad


INTERVIEW WITH CAS ACM TANVIR MAHMOOD AHMAD
By: Salim Bukhari, Saeed Ali and Naeem Tahir


Q. Would the new Pakistani F-16s would be performing with a handicap or limitations after the American concerns of the use of F-16s by Pakistan?

Ans. There are no handicaps or limitations following the use of the latest F-16C/D Block-52 as well as F-16A/B MLU Fighting Falcons, imposed by the US authorities. PAF can use these aircraft against any target whenever and wherever it wants to. PAF is totally independent in deploying these aircraft against all sorts of targets, in both defensive and offensive roles. All US suspicions are cleared.


Q. Can you explain that why a US team of experts will also accompany these aircraft in Pakistan?

Ans. This is not a new thing. In 1961, a US team of experts accompanied the 12 F-104A Starfighters. Again in 1983, a team accompanied the F-16A/B Fighting Falcons. Similarly French and Chinese team of experts have also accompanied aircrafts of the origin of their countries for the discussion about technical and maintenance details, initially when Mirage III, F-6, F-7MP and F-7PG were inducted.
The only thing which US do not want is that Pakistan does not transfer the technology of the new Falcons to a third country, especially China.


Q. What are your remarks about the new F-16C/D Block-52 Advanced Vipers?

Ans. I am impressed by these new breed of Fighting Falcons. I’m confident that these aircraft along with the MLU F-16A/Bs will bolster PAF’s capabilities and would balance the technological gap of the airforces in the Sub-Continent.
F-16C/D Block-52 is relatively larger, will have enhanced fuel capacity, better engine, powerful radar, better avionics, better payload carrying capacity and range than the earlier versions. Apart from that the aircraft will have night vision, sophisticated targeting pods, ability to carry smart weapons, latest BVR weapons (AIM-120C AMRAAM) and latest Sidewinder missiles and latest sophisticated PGMs and ASMs.
These aircraft will provide all weather day/night capability to hit targets in air, land and sea. Their would be very minimum set up for these as well as upgraded Falcons as Pakistan already has facilities and ground support equipment for the F-16 Fighting Falcons.


Q. How do you compare Pakistan Airforce with Indian Airforce?

Ans. In the present scenario, the role of Pakistan Airforce is to ensure peace in the region and to defend Pakistan from all sorts of aggression. The ratio between PAF and IAF is still the same 1:3 in IAF’s favor. India also enjoys the marvels of latest technology more than Pakistan. Though our F-16A/B Block-15s are still considered as a major threat along the other side of the border, IAF is constantly adding latest and sophisticated aircraft n their arsenal as well as upgrading their old aircraft to meet the requirements of the air warfare arena of today. Practically speaking, PAF even today has the capability to counter any sort of IAF’s aggression but if we won’t take any necessary steps for our modernization in the coming 5-7 years, IAF will go way ahead from us. The balance of power will shift in their favor so much that it would virtually impossible to cope up with them at that time.


Q. Is PAF inducting the Swedish Erieye AEW&C system along with SAAB-2000 aircraft from Sweden? If so, then when will they enter service?

Ans. Affirmative! Pakistan is ready to receive the Swedish Erieye AEW&C systems and Inshallah these systems will enter service in 2009. These radar systems will be used to gather important information and forward it to our Command and Control System, which is linked to the ground radar systems. Thus important information can be forwarded to the Command Operations Center in no time.


Q. What are measures taken for this system to be compatible with PAF fighters?

Ans. All the combat aircraft in PAF’s inventory will be linked to the Erieye system by a data link. New as well as upgraded F-16s, F-10A and JF-17 Thunders are equipped with data links. We are moving towards Network Strategic Warfare, and for that we have worked out on a plan for the modernization of Pakistan Airforce.



Q. Is Pakistan interested in purchasing an aerial refueling system? If true how will PAF utilize this air asset? There is unconfirmed news that Pakistan is considering Ukrainian aerial refueling systems. Is this true?

Ans. Correct! PAF is inducting four Russian origin aircraft equipped with aerial refueling systems from Ukraine. This will enhance defensive and offensive capabilities i.e. PAF’s deep strike capability as well as endurance for long CAP and BARCAP missions. Basically our major aim is to provide a complete aerial refueling system for our JF-17 Thunders which will form our backbone in near future.


Q. Will Pakistan be inducting Chinese KJ-2000 system?

Ans. China is our most sincere friend and in the previous decades, China has excelled in the aircraft development industry and has always offered us frontline equipment with the best package available. Hence we will consider our policies, revise our modernization program and will consider this system to be inducted in our air arsenal along with Erieye System.


Q. What are the options available for PAF to enhance its fleet, and what new fighter types are expected to join PAF in the next five years?

Ans. As I have mentioned earlier, we are keeping all available options open and wants a well balanced multirole jet fighter aircraft. We will be inducting 18 new F-16C/Ds and most probably will use our option of 18 more after the first squadron will be operational. We will also be inducting 26 MLU F-16A/B as well as our existing fleet of 34 aircraft will also undergo the MLU upgrades. 150 JF-17 Thunders and 36 F-10A aircraft will also be joining PAF, and more F-10s can be expected. Most probably we will also purchase FC-20 fighter aircraft from China.


Q. Is acquiring aircraft from Europe won’t be more feasible?

Ans. In my opinion every option has some special features. We have studied all available options in details. Our main priorities are totally clear in front of the media i.e. Multirole Fighters, High Tech Airborne Radars, BVR Capability and Weapons, Top of the line Weapon Systems and Electronic Warfare Suites. We want to acquire all these things within our resources, and these things in the European market are quite expensive.



Q. How can you compare F-16 and Su-30?

Ans. These aircraft can be compared in many ways. Su-30 MKI has powerful radar but it can be detected by the AEW&C systems and the F-16s will thus be aware of its presence. Apart from that both aircraft can carry latest weapon systems. Su-30 MKI has the capacity to carry heavy loads and more fuel but this can be countered with the help of AAR. In the same manner Chinese F-10A is also an excellent platform in countering this threat and can carry heavier loads than the F-16.



Q. How can we compare F-16 with F-10A and F-18?

Ans. Similarly as I have done it above.



Q. If you are given the authority to induct an aircraft for the PAF, which aircraft will you prefer regarding the resources available?

Ans. The western world has a huge variety of high tech aircraft in which I personally like Typhoon, Grippen, Rafale and FA-18/E. But either these aircraft are expensive or political factors poses some hurdles in their procurement. You would probably understand that their procurement is a sensitive matter hence to be practical and modest F-16C/D or F-16E/F will be my choice.



Q. Initially Pakistan wanted to induct JAS-39 Grippen or Mirage-2000. Will PAF still go for either any of these aircraft, if not then why didn’t this deal materialize?

Ans. We have carried out a detailed series of tests and evaluation on these aircraft and after all the tests were conducted, F-16 was considered as the best due to many reasons.



Q. As you know that the Mirage 2000-9 fighter aircraft was released for the sale to Pakistan. Do you still have any contacts with Dassault for this matter?

Ans. Yes, but not for the Mirage 2000-9 but for our own Mirage series of fighter bombers.


Q. Is this a reality that Thrust Vectoring technology gives an edge in air to air combat? PAF does not possess this technology whereas IAF possess it.

Ans. Thrust Vectoring is an added capability in turning dogfights and close combat, but since the air war of today mostly is fought beyond visual range and effective medium to short range missile coupled with HMS, it’s importance has declined.
Thrust vectoring can be effective in evading a missile, either BVR or SAM.



Q. How will you compare JF-17 with India’s LCA Tejas, Israeli IAI Kfir and Iranian latest jet fighter?

Ans. JF-17 is a fourth generation aircraft, and much more capable than IAI Kfir and Iranian jet fighter. JF-17 can fight any fourth generation fighter and give it either a tough fight or outclass it by using latest tactics of air warfare. Mash Allah, JF-17’s development has taken a lightening pace whereas India is facing problems in LCA Tejas’ development. JF-17’s capabilities are well known by the media whereas LCA Tejas’ capabilities are yet to be revealed.



Q. Can you please provide a comparison between the BVR capabilities of Su-30 and Mirage-2000?

Ans. This is basically a comparison between Russian and French BVR technology. Both are different in performance as well as prices but unlike American BVR missiles, both Russian and French BVR missile are not COMBAT PROVEN.



Q. Can you please inform us about Pakistani PGM capabilities?

Ans. We have top of the range PGM capability, which comprises of both imported as well as domestic weapons.



Q. Can you please tell us that how much money does PAF will require in its modernization program which includes, development of new fighter aircraft, induction of new aircraft and systems and upgradation of old aircraft?

Ans. We will be requiring at least 8-10 Billion Dollars, but since we do not want to put a strain on our economy, our modernizaion program would be completed in 6-8 years starting from now.



Q. What are the measures which you will take for the PAF to make it a formidable fihting force?

Ans. Our targets for modernization should be fullfilled within the time i.e. 6-8 years. We are including AEW and AAR in our fleet as well as gradually replacing old aircraft with new aircraft.


Q. Pakistan is going for F-16s. After 5 years their won't be any room left for the upgradation of F-16C/D whereas F-16 MLU will already been upgraded and cannot be upgraded further. Why Pakistan is not going for JAS-39C Grippen, in which their is room for upgradation of aircraft as well SAAB has agreed to transfer the technology to Pakistan?

Ans. As i have mentioned earlier, latest upgradation, airborne equipment and weapon system can increase the lethality of the aircraft. New variants are certainly different from their older counterparts. As far as transfer of technology is concerned, to tell you the truth, we are not in a state of handle extremely high technology used in JAS-39 Grippen, as we don't have the bases of aerial technogy.
=======================
=======================

ACM Tanvir Mahmood Ahmad's wife was part of my early years; and from what I can remember, ACM Ahmad has always been an intelligent and strong hearted man.

In any case, he has strongly implicated the following;

1) PAF may procure another Chinese fighter in addition to JF-17 and J-10A; "FC-20" might be the Super J-10/J-10C, J-11B or one of the JXXs.

2) PAF will procure 4 IL-76/78 air-to-air refueling aircraft from Ukraine.

3) PAF will consider the IL-76 based KJ-2000 AWACS from China.

4) Pakistan locally produces precision-guided-munitions; H-2/H-4 = Raptor-I/II? IMO there is likely local production of the improved R-Darter BVRAAM (T-Darter) and may expand to A-Darter WVRAAMs as well as DPGMs.

5) 36+ J-10As, 36 F-16C/D Block 52+, 60 F-16A/B MLU3, 150 JF-17s, and 6 Saab 2000 based Erieye AEW&C are firmly placed in the PAF's modernization plans. With the probability of at least two squadrons of "FC-20s" and IMO another squadron of F-16C/D Block 52+.

 

[LordoftheLord]

what is FC-20??? and is there any recorded video of ACM conversation??

go to youtube

 

[powerslavenegi]

http://www.pakdef.info/forum/showpost.php?p=93089&postcount=17

This interview appeared on Daily Jang and was also shown on ARY ONE. This is a translated version from Daily Jang.

Translation Courtesy - Sarmad


INTERVIEW WITH CAS ACM TANVIR MAHMOOD AHMAD
By: Salim Bukhari, Saeed Ali and Naeem Tahir


Q. Would the new Pakistani F-16s would be performing with a handicap or limitations after the American concerns of the use of F-16s by Pakistan?

Ans. There are no handicaps or limitations following the use of the latest F-16C/D Block-52 as well as F-16A/B MLU Fighting Falcons, imposed by the US authorities. PAF can use these aircraft against any target whenever and wherever it wants to. PAF is totally independent in deploying these aircraft against all sorts of targets, in both defensive and offensive roles. All US suspicions are cleared.

Interesting there is no news to confirm the same from the US side.Between US did not have suspicions they were confident and hence the safegaurds.

 

[uaf]

http://www.brecorder.com/index.php?id=409827&currPageNo=1&query=&search=&term=&supDate=


In here it says J-10 is Fc-20 but o doubte that it was suppose to be F-10 ??

any one got some info on it ??

 

[pshamim]

Interesting there is no news to confirm the same from the US side.Between US did not have suspicions they were confident and hence the safegaurds.

There are always concerns when making a new sale. The concerns are addressed by an End User Certificate, to be furnished by the Buyer. This is a standard procedure and applies to every country including India or even the NATO countries. Buyers are supposed to keep adherence to this document as future relations and dealings depend on respecting the terms. I have never witnessed a Ministry of Defense contingent staioned in Buyer's country for monitoring the terms and conditions of the sale. If someone thinks that US Government will have a monitoring team stationed in Pakistan, they are truly mistaken and know nothing about this business.

Every new system, when supplied, also has a large number of experts from different manufacturers including the aircraft manufacturer and the systems integrated on the aircraft. This is true now and it was when Pakistan was shipped the first F-16s. Being the General Dynamics's representative, I spent couple of years along with others in Pakistan. We were there to help and advise in F-16 integration into PAF and left when our goals were achieved.

As far as I know there have been no concerns left now either with Pakistan or American Governments now about this deal. US is understood to have allayed most of the Pakistani concerns. Key systems, that were not included in the notifications to Congress, may eventually end up in Pakistan in ways that you or I may never know.

In my experience many items, that US did not supply through the congressional certification route, have been supplied in other ways to many other countries. US Government knows a thousand ways to skin the cat if it wants to do so.

I see a lack of knowledge and understanding about these affairs on the part of many posters. What I do observe are knee jerk reactions and a pissing contest that has been mastered by some who basically have no knowledge but bent upon refuting anything one side says or does. The fiasco is continuously repeated on threads dealing with Pakistan and India. This must stop now. Grow up.

 

[umair]

Well just one tidbit, "full EW capability will eventually be there on our birds as well as SEAD in the near future". This is in keeping with the previous F-16 package precedent, as Mr PShamim will recall they too were equipped for a sead capability and were armed with AGM-45 Shrikes.

 

[powerslavenegi]

In my experience many items, that US did not supply through the congressional certification route, have been supplied in other ways to many other countries. US Government knows a thousand ways to skin the cat if it wants to do so.

Very true ,point taken .US can and has bypassed protocols in the past to satisfy it's national interests.In this regrds too if doing the same helps it's cause then yes P.A.F will eventually get what it wants.

I see a lack of knowledge and understanding about these affairs on the part of many posters. What I do observe are knee jerk reactions and a pissing contest that has been mastered by some who basically have no knowledge but bent upon refuting anything one side says or does. The fiasco is continuously repeated on threads dealing with Pakistan and India. This must stop now. Grow up.

People comment on what is said by tabloids and how the deal is inked and not on what goes on behind closed doors(and this holds true even if they know what happens behind the scenes) .As far as knee jerk reactions and stuff like that is concerned your above comments are a classic example of the same .In this case too I simply wanted to know whether US or DOD has confirmed what the interviewee has to say about the caps on the arms sales.Now if some one has any knowledge regarding the same then please furbish the source a.s.a.p.As far as flaming of India and Pak threads is concerned I guess Mods are handling it pretty well.

 

[birdofprey]

which planes is better

1) F-16 block 52 plus vs mirage-2000-5
2) F-16 block 52 plus vs J-10
3) F-16 block 52 plus vs su-30 mk not I

many western sources claim J-10's Maneuverability to be superior to F-18 super hornets! by just comparing the prise tags of new f-16s and Su-30 mk not I the F-16 is more expencive meaning better??

one more thing
the pakistani F-16 deal is worth $5.1 billion including MLU for second hand F-16s.. the new indian upcoming 126 MRCA is worth $9 billion which is more advanced and quantity!

pakistani ~70 F-16s including second hand= $5.1 billion.
Indain 126 MRCA more advanced= $9 billion
what is the deal here my friends... with this rate if we buy lets say 126 block 52 it will be well over $10billion where as much more advanced indian MRCA is $9 billion!:drunk1 :fly

 

[BilalK]

The 5.1bn USD deal involves 36 new built F-16C/D Block 52+, 26 used F-16A/B, 60 MLU-3 kits; as well as, 500 AIM-120C5 AMRAAM, 500 JDAM, 200 AIM-9M-8/9, and thousands of other bombs.

 

[falconlover81]

which planes is better

1) F-16 block 52 plus vs mirage-2000-5
2) F-16 block 52 plus vs J-10
3) F-16 block 52 plus vs su-30 mk not I

many western sources claim J-10's Maneuverability to be superior to F-18 super hornets! by just comparing the prise tags of new f-16s and Su-30 mk not I the F-16 is more expencive meaning better??

one more thing
the pakistani F-16 deal is worth $5.1 billion including MLU for second hand F-16s.. the new indian upcoming 126 MRCA is worth $9 billion which is more advanced and quantity!

pakistani ~70 F-16s including second hand= $5.1 billion.
Indain 126 MRCA more advanced= $9 billion
what is the deal here my friends... with this rate if we buy lets say 126 block 52 it will be well over $10billion where as much more advanced indian MRCA is $9 billion!:drunk1 :fly[/QUOTE]

well i'll start by welcoming u to this forum second of all about the comparison u have done b/w these planes my pick would definitely be the viper bcoz the viper gives u quality at an economical price or rather resonable price if u like.about the maneuverability of the j-10 what i have heard is the j-10 is more maneuverable than the su-30 and in many cases has even outperformed its opponent(source:tphuang)and that's exactly why the chinese are cutting their su-30 purchases and going for j-10s.and in ur last point u have compared the us-pak f-16 deal with the mrca deal my friend lets be realistic pakistan does not have the resources to go for such a deal in one go now how to counter the threat u can do that by following a policy of phased induction exactly what paf is doing at the moment and once the modernisation is complete i.e induction of f-16's jf-17's j-10's and fc-20's as indicated by the air chief marshal the qualitative and quantitative edge that the iaf enjoys will be over

 

[birdofprey]

ok i know what the deal consists of... 36 new block+ f-16 $3billion meaning 82 million dollors per unit! OMG :shudder you can easily operate one EF-2000 squaderon or two! WTF mate, r we beeing tugged by uncle sam??

and what the hell is FC-20??? never heard of that..

 

[sunjerem]

Actually, the US has only agreed to 18 new F-16s so far for 5.1 billion dollars.
Whether the US will ever agree to the remaining 18, who knows?
One thing's for sure, once Bush is out of office in 2008, Congress will immediately slam the sanction back on Pakistan. So, whatever F-16s PAF will get must be delivered before 2008. I estimate no more than 10 new F-16s will be delivered to PAF before sanctions hit again in 2008 after the presidential elections.

 

[meh]

The F-16's you are talking about. Yeah they don't even have offensive ability and lack other very important components that WERE suppose to come standerd with EVERY F-16 blc 50/52 so you tell me is it even worth paying for. Oh the most important thing of all the air crafts radar might not even be able to detect alied NATO aircrafts.

Pakistan negotiating conditions attached to F-16 deal

By Arshad Sharif
Reuters
Tuesday, September 26, 2006; 12:59 PM
Pakistan negotiating conditions attached to F-16 deal

By Arshad Sharif
Reuters
Tuesday, September 26, 2006; 12:59 PM

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan is negotiating over strict conditions attached by the United States to a proposed multi-billion dollar deal to supply the Pakistani air force with F-16 warplanes, defense officials said on Tuesday.

The Bush administration formally notified Congress on June 28 of plans to sell Pakistan up to 36 new "Fighting Falcon" warplanes, and the formal sale agreement was expected to have been signed by end-August.




In this 2006 file photo, salesman Spencer Stevens looks for a pair of shoes for a customer at the Brown's Shoe Fit Co. in Newton, Iowa. Shoppers, encouraged by cooler temperatures and easing gasoline prices, went on a shopping spree in September, resulting in better-than-expected gains for many merchants. (AP)


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The proposed sale had included upgrades for Pakistan's fleet of 34 earlier model F-16s and a support package for up to 26 refurbished F-16s that Pakistan may eventually buy.

"Negotiations are on and once the details are sorted out, further progress will be made," Air Commodore Sarfaraz Ahmed Khan, spokesman of for the Pakistan Air Force, said.

Washington has demanded what it calls unprecedented steps to stop the technology of the advanced F-16s, their spare parts and munitions from falling into the hands of third countries -- notably China, which has close military ties to Pakistan.

John Hillen, the Assistant Secretary of State for political-military affairs, told Congress on July 20 the United States had also proposed that F-16 flights outside Pakistani air space, including for exercises with other countries, must be approved by the U.S. government in advance.

Hillen said the transfer of technology safeguards inserted in the contract were "unprecedented."

Lockheed Martin Corp builds the F-16, but Boeing Co., Raytheon Co, Northrop-Gumman Corp and General Electric Co., are other principal contractors involved in the deal.

Hillen, in his testimony to the House of Representatives' International Relations Committee, also disclosed that the United States was withholding unspecified technologies "that would usually go with an F-16," including ones that would let it "be used in offensive ways to penetrate air space of another country that was highly defended."
Pakistan's Air Chief, Air Chief Marshal, Tanvir Mahmood Khan, said in an interview with The News daily last Friday: "We are quite satisfied with the current F-16 proposal."

"Notwithstanding the ongoing F-16 negotiations, every aircraft deal has preconditions. Mostly these pertain to restrictions on transfer of technology, more akin to copyright laws," he added.

Though the air force spokesperson did not specify the terms and conditions under negotiation, other officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, suggested more talking was needed on the conditions set by Washington before Pakistan is fully satisfied.

In his testimony Hillen highlighted that Pakistan's F-16 fleet and its munitions would be segregated from aircraft supplied by other countries, so that unauthorized engineers could not get access to the U.S. planes.

 

[BilalK]

Actually, the US has only agreed to 18 new F-16s so far for 5.1 billion dollars.
Whether the US will ever agree to the remaining 18, who knows?
One thing's for sure, once Bush is out of office in 2008, Congress will immediately slam the sanction back on Pakistan. So, whatever F-16s PAF will get must be delivered before 2008. I estimate no more than 10 new F-16s will be delivered to PAF before sanctions hit again in 2008 after the presidential elections.

Dude, stop BS'ing; 36 new built Block 52+ are apart of the F-16 deal - read up the DSCA document. The LOA is valued about 1.5bn USD less than the overall deal's value; since 18 of the 36 new built F-16s are options awaiting to be executed by PAF.

Secondly, stop being so damn childish; your little statement with regards to sanctions is complete BS. You do not have any credentials, any reasonable amount of basis - and seems to be based on emotion or personal wishes. Whether sanctions are thrown on Pakistan or not is entirely dependant on U.S interests; so don't go out assuming that the democrats hate Pakistan to the core and will embargo it.

ok i know what the deal consists of... 36 new block+ f-16 $3billion meaning 82 million dollors per unit! OMG you can easily operate one EF-2000 squaderon or two! WTF mate, r we beeing tugged by uncle sam??

....and the sheep keep on shitting; Austria agreed to pay 2.6bn USD for 18 Eurofighters - so get your facts straight before making half thought comments like that. BTW, Saudi Arabia will pay 20bn USD for the maintenance for 72 Eurofighters for 20-25 years; if you do the math, that is the PAF's annual budget for 20 years.

The F-16's you are talking about. Yeah they don't even have offensive ability and lack other very important components that WERE suppose to come standerd with EVERY F-16 blc 50/52 so you tell me is it even worth paying for. Oh the most important thing of all the air crafts radar might not even be able to detect alied NATO aircrafts.

...the heard keeps getting bigger and bigger; do you know what the PAF's F-16s are lacking? In their ECM/EW pods, they are lacking a new piece of technology called Digital Radio Frequency Memory; which would allow the PAF's F-16s to be immune to most IAF ECM/EW systems. However with the use of Link 16 datalink (included in PAF's package) and Erieye AEW&C - the use of DRFM is mostly nullified; and the DRFM technology can be bought from Europe or third party.

As for the PAF's F-16s being unable to lock onto NATO aircraft; do you think Pakistan will invade Europe anytime soon? And what would the Indian Air Force do with NATO IFF codes? Honestly...the shit-pile just keeps getting bigger with each successive post.

 

[adsH]

A fine example of pathetic Journalism!

I particularly like the way (Sarcasm) the previous article was authored. He/She not only tore apart different stories from different sources he/she even took these extracts from different points in time stretching back couple of months, Completely disregarding linear nature of the story. No Integrity at all. My best guess is that the writer has an agenda to push through.

Can we possibly get a source posted here aswell!! So that we’re aware in the future where this rubbish would flow from!