Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[tphuang]

Yes China has reverse engineered and exported equipment before. However, times have changed, and China needs Russia and the other arms exporters all the more now. China realizes that such tactics, even though they bring in some small amounts of case, cause ill will that could cause problems later.

Also, with today's military equipment going all digital, reverse-engineering is a lot harder.

the weird part is that China does not think J-11B is bound to the original agreement, because they think it's their own design. I personally find that quite iffy, because it seems the airframe design was mentionned to still be the original su-27 airframe.

And you are right, today's reverse engineering is harder. That's probably why China feels like J-11B is not bound to the original agreement.

 

[BilalK]

Possibly, but what if China bought off rights to sell their localized version of the Su-27/J-11? I wouldn't call J-11B 'reverse engineered' - rather localized with Chinese designed engines, software, weapons and avionics; I think the frame is the only issue at hand.

 

[WAR]

PAF training jet crashes near Karachi, pilot killed

Link:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp#8983


PAF training jet crashes near Karachi, pilot killed
Updated at 1000 PST
KARACHI: A Pakistan air force jet on a training flight crashed near the southern port city of Karachi, in which the pilot was killed.

The F-7 aircraft of Pakistan air force took off to a training flight from Masroor Base Karachi on Thursday night, police said. A technical fault developed in the aircraft after take off.

Some people witnessed flames in the aircraft near Toll Plaza at Super Highway. “The airplane was about to fall over Majeed Burfat Goth in Thana Bhola Khan limits about 15 kilometers distance from the Super Highway. But the pilot successfully took the aircraft away from the village, which was crashed at a hill about two kilometers distance from the village, eyewitnesses said.

The pilot was killed in the crash.

The people of the village informed the Madadgar Police timely in night but the police teams reached at the place of the crash within two hours, DPO Jamshoro told media.

A team of Pakistan air force reached at the spot of crash by a helicopter in the early morning Friday and inspected the place of crash.

Air force authorities have ordered investigation of the incident.
================

Sad news.
There is a usual problem with Chinese Aircrafts. Another A/c lost, this time alongwith the Pilot.

 

[TheDefender]

Sad news.
There is a usual problem with Chinese Aircrafts. Another A/c lost, this time alongwith the Pilot.

What do you say about the Mig21s and Mirage IIIs ,do they belong to China. WAR try to reamin in your sences the older planes crash more. The crash rate does not depend upon the manufacturer

 

[SABRE]

Link:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp#8983


PAF training jet crashes near Karachi, pilot killed
Updated at 1000 PST
KARACHI: A Pakistan air force jet on a training flight crashed near the southern port city of Karachi, in which the pilot was killed.

The F-7 aircraft of Pakistan air force took off to a training flight from Masroor Base Karachi on Thursday night, police said. A technical fault developed in the aircraft after take off.

Some people witnessed flames in the aircraft near Toll Plaza at Super Highway. “The airplane was about to fall over Majeed Burfat Goth in Thana Bhola Khan limits about 15 kilometers distance from the Super Highway. But the pilot successfully took the aircraft away from the village, which was crashed at a hill about two kilometers distance from the village, eyewitnesses said.

The pilot was killed in the crash.

The people of the village informed the Madadgar Police timely in night but the police teams reached at the place of the crash within two hours, DPO Jamshoro told media.

A team of Pakistan air force reached at the spot of crash by a helicopter in the early morning Friday and inspected the place of crash.

Air force authorities have ordered investigation of the incident.
================

Sad news.
There is a usual problem with Chinese Aircrafts. Another A/c lost, this time alongwith the Pilot.

the aircraft was no where near Karachi. It crashed in Hyderabad [150km away from Karachi]. In fact, it crashed in Jam Shoro, which is 15 to 20 km away from the main Hyderabad City.

I also happen to be in Hyderabad at this moment & not so far from Highway or Jamshoro, but I dint see or hear any thing.

 

[zainulhuda]

Do any of you know if the Pakistani military has changed the PAF doctrine, from primarily ground support to more of an air defense role? Keeping in mind the two gulf wars and the recent Lebanese conflict, it would seem that without ensuring, at the very least, parity (if not superiority), with the opposing air force, ground forces are sitting ducks. If the PAF is not looking for parity in terms of aircraft, does it have any assets that could neutralize, or severely limit, the effectiveness of an opposing air force?

 

[umair]

PAF's doctrine from the 1960s has been based on air defence and local air superiority. Close support was never a priority task for us.

 

[WAR]

PAF's Doctrine.

Well, Pakistan Air Force primarily toes the line of defensive doctrine. However, over the years, it has developed capacity and strategy to engage the enemy in her own territory. Which means that PAF can act in both ways, depending on the requirement.

 

[mysterious]

It is ironic that given the air-defense role of the PAF; no investment has been made in acquring modern long-range SAMs or even making the radar network impenetrable. Thus, PAF's fleet is the only thing Pakistan's airdefence is relying on with hardly any support from much needed SAM coverage.

 

[kams]

What kind of long/medium range SAM and mobile short range air defence systems are currently in use?

 

[mysterious]

Mostly vintage Crotales and HQ-I and IIs. Other than that, most commonly used ones are the shoulder fired ones.

 

[Archer]

A)SAMs cost money
B) They are less flexible than aircraft

Till China starts churning out cheap SAMs I dont think PAF can acquire them in plenty, but that day might be just around the corner.

 

[Grand Danois]

A)SAMs cost money
B) They are less flexible than aircraft

Till China starts churning out cheap SAMs I dont think PAF can acquire them in plenty, but that day might be just around the corner.

I'd also say, considering the potential OPFOR has more resources, the most cost-effective way for Pakistan to defend its airspace/challenge OPFOR airforce would be in the air with fighters.

 

[Archer]

SAMs to be fair tho' could present a prickly problem for the IAF, as its not the USAF to simply rely on JDAMs throwing them off in the hundreds safely from 15k feet.

OTOH, the IAF is paying substantial attention to EW with almost all of its frontline aircraft types having been seen SPJ equipped & with an increasingly robust local development program, which might go to the next level via a tie-up with Israel for the LCAs EW suite (as reported by Defense News).

All in all, Paks dependent on China, but China itself is increasingly demanding cold hard cash for its products. Modern equipment, even if not first world/NATO standard, still relies on COTS chips and expensive waveguides or whatever precision engineering, which despite Chinas fabled cost advantage, still costs money!!

 

[Grand Danois]

SAMs to be fair tho' could present a prickly problem for the IAF, as its not the USAF to simply rely on JDAMs throwing them off in the hundreds safely from 15k feet.

OTOH, the IAF is paying substantial attention to EW with almost all of its frontline aircraft types having been seen SPJ equipped & with an increasingly robust local development program, which might go to the next level via a tie-up with Israel for the LCAs EW suite (as reported by Defense News).

All in all, Paks dependent on China, but China itself is increasingly demanding cold hard cash for its products. Modern equipment, even if not first world/NATO standard, still relies on COTS chips and expensive waveguides or whatever precision engineering, which despite Chinas fabled cost advantage, still costs money!!

Alright then. It could make sense to throw in a small number of highly capable SAM systems, just for the assymmetry. But wouldn't compromise investment in the AF for it.

 

[kams]

Mostly vintage Crotales and HQ-I and IIs. Other than that, most commonly used ones are the shoulder fired ones.

Pakistan also has RBS-70 beam riders. They are very good difficult to jam.

 

[uaf]

Hey Guz just read this

The country also is looking to buy 25 to 30 highly capable fighter aircraft, and is considering the Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and Saab JAS 39 Gripen, the official said.
A Pakistani delegation is due to go to Italy next month to see the Typhoon go through flight trials, he said.


here is the source

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3646&page=20

ummm intresting can anyone provide athentic prove of it in shape of Link
F-16's , J-10 and now Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon or Saab JAS 39 Gripen.

 

[aaaditya]

that's pretty old news ,it would be interesting to know what happened after that,i dont think pakistan will acquire the ef2000 since it is very expensive,pakistan has no experience operating uk-german designed fighters,i believe pakistan would prefer the rafale as it is based on the french technology and i believe the pakistanis can easily retool their existing facilities to provide support for this fighter,also ef2000 being a multination product is more prone to sanctions than the rafale would be,france has always proved to be a reliable defence supplier for pakistan.

 

[mysterious]

Not entirely correct there, IMHO about the Typhoons. As is common knowledge by now, Saudi Arabia is purchasing 72 Typhoons which includes ToT. Two things, first, Pakistan might be able get them cheaper if they broker a deal with the Saudis and BAE with regards to the combined bulk sale of fighters to both Saudi and Pakistan; secondly, ToT to Saudi Arabia would in some way atleast ensure that santions do not cost Pakistan as heavily as, lets say, the F-16s did in the past. Just my take on this.

 

[tphuang]

Not entirely correct there, IMHO about the Typhoons. As is common knowledge by now, Saudi Arabia is purchasing 72 Typhoons which includes ToT. Two things, first, Pakistan might be able get them cheaper if they broker a deal with the Saudis and BAE with regards to the combined bulk sale of fighters to both Saudi and Pakistan; secondly, ToT to Saudi Arabia would in some way atleast ensure that santions do not cost Pakistan as heavily as, lets say, the F-16s did in the past. Just my take on this.

how cheap can you get the typhoons for? And so far, I have only heard speculations that they will be offered to Pakistan. Until something concrete materials, there really is no point keep on speculating like this.