Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[BilalK]

I wonder what the PAF's air-to-air refuelers will be; I think there is a strong chance of either KC-135 or the A-310 MRTT. IMO the PAF may choose A-310 MRTT; it uses both hose-and-drogue and/or boom systems, suitable for all PAF aircraft. Cost wise, the airframe could be procured fairly cheaply - and the conversion would not cost more than 100mn USD per aircraft.

 

[P.A.F]

To be honest i don't particularly think that this is an immediate need for the PAF. i think they should concentrate on strengthening the Air force fully before making this next step. such a system however would be a must by the year 2020+. i don't think we would need one in the next 10 years.

 

[swerve]

I wonder what the PAF's air-to-air refuelers will be; I think there is a strong chance of either KC-135 or the A-310 MRTT. IMO the PAF may choose A-310 MRTT; it uses both hose-and-drogue and/or boom systems, suitable for all PAF aircraft. Cost wise, the airframe could be procured fairly cheaply - and the conversion would not cost more than 100mn USD per aircraft.

A300MRTT is also feasible. The conversion would need only minor adaptations from that done for A310, with minimal technical risk This means that one could make a decision on A300 or A310 depending on the availability of suitable airframes. Note that A300 freighters are still in production (though only for the next few months). For both, parts & support will be available for a very long time. There's a large & widespread user base.

KC-135 doesn't seem a good choice. Firstly, are there any available? Isn't the USAF tanker fleet pretty busy? Also, they're all very old. And they were built as boom only - do they have drogues?

 

[powerslavenegi]

A good deal

To be honest i don't particularly think that this is an immediate need for the PAF. i think they should concentrate on strengthening the Air force fully before making this next step. such a system however would be a must by the year 2020+. i don't think we would need one in the next 10 years.

The F-16 BLOCK 50/52 is a good buy,what impresses me the most is that P.A.F chose F-16 as against Rafale,Gripen or EF-2000(may I say so).The current aircraft along with the weapons package would certainly add teeth to P.A.F which I assume would not have been the case if P.A.F would have opted for Rafale or Gripen.Having said that what baffles me is why did not P.A.F consider F-18 S/H if at all they required an A/C in class of Rafale and EF-typhoon.

 

[swerve]

The F-16 BLOCK 50/52 is a good buy,what impresses me the most is that P.A.F chose F-16 as against Rafale,Gripen or EF-2000(may I say so).The current aircraft along with the weapons package would certainly add teeth to P.A.F which I assume would not have been the case if P.A.F would have opted for Rafale or Gripen.Having said that what baffles me is why did not P.A.F consider F-18 S/H if at all they required an A/C in class of Rafale and EF-typhoon.

Logistics. How many fighter types does Pakistan operate? Buying on squadron of yet another type would be sheer insanity. Extra F-16s is a no-brainer. The limited commonality of the new ones will be ameliorated by the upgrading of the old ones.

Longer-term, another type could be sensible. But not as a relatively quick top-up, which is what this F-16 buy looks to be. And isn't it being partly funded by US aid? If so, only a US type could be bought.

 

[ali.uaf]

The F-16 BLOCK 50/52 is a good buy,what impresses me the most is that P.A.F chose F-16 as against Rafale,Gripen or EF-2000(may I say so).The current aircraft along with the weapons package would certainly add teeth to P.A.F which I assume would not have been the case if P.A.F would have opted for Rafale or Gripen.Having said that what baffles me is why did not P.A.F consider F-18 S/H if at all they required an A/C in class of Rafale and EF-typhoon.

I read a report in a different newspaper (can't find the link to it) that the older planes are not exactly the same planes manufactured for Pakistan but are the ones being decomissioned by the USAF with the same specs and configuration. These planes are being sold to Pakistan for less than a million bucks a piece, almost scrap price. Man, at this price PAF could buy 50 of those. But then I think the reduced quantity of the new planes suggest PAF is now saving resources for a fourth generation fighter to spearhead the airforce. Viper will be the backbone along with the JF-17.

 

[kams]

I think now the F-16 sale is done deal...even though there were some rumblings in the hearing.

House International Relations Committee hearing

 

[ahussains]

Yeah this is good saying by ALI that PAF have to look for other options too and dont completly relay on F 16. PAF have good experience of using F 16 it will far better to if they go for any other 4 Generation plane as well as accuring some OLD or Upgarded F16's, Saab Gripen is one of the best choice for me because with the compatiablity of westren AVIONICS + an extra advantage if PAF some got Ericsson ERIeye ( AWACS) or if they manage to get any thing from RUSSIA that will be a geat advantage for PAF birds like MIG 29 UBK or some thing is SU 27 or 30 catagory this will be quit difficult for pakistan .. some say about RAFLE it was tooo expence PAF can not afford this if they got some 80 or 100 birds like

30 F 16
24 Saab Gripeen
24 Mig 29
12 SU 30
10 J10 From China

This will be quite enough for Pakistan for at least 4 to 7 years

 

[RA1911]

30 F 16
24 Saab Gripeen
24 Mig 29
12 SU 30
10 J10 From China

This will be quite enough for Pakistan for at least 4 to 7 years

This will be a logistical nightmare. Too many different types of planes.

 

[swerve]

I read a report in a different newspaper (can't find the link to it) that the older planes are not exactly the same planes manufactured for Pakistan but are the ones being decomissioned by the USAF with the same specs and configuration. These planes are being sold to Pakistan for less than a million bucks a piece, almost scrap price. Man, at this price PAF could buy 50 of those.

And then spend how much bringing them up to an acceptable condition & specification? They need refurbishment & upgrading. That will cost real money, not a million per.

 

[shujaatK]

This will be a logistical nightmare. Too many different types of planes.

As you say!!!
PAF has purchased a large quantity of Mirage lll/V,and even larger quantities of spares, and they will be around for decades. As will the F-7PG.
It seems that the PAFwill have:
Mirage lll/V
F-7PG
F-16, (old and new)
JF-17
J-10
over the next decades.
A logistics nightmare enough.
(The transports/choppers add to this).

 

[tphuang]

As you say!!!
PAF has purchased a large quantity of Mirage lll/V,and even larger quantities of spares, and they will be around for decades. As will the F-7PG.
It seems that the PAFwill have:
Mirage lll/V
F-7PG
F-16, (old and new)
JF-17
J-10
over the next decades.
A logistics nightmare enough.
(The transports/choppers add to this).

well, you would imagine that the Mirage and F-7 will be slowly removed from service as the newer fighters are getting inducted.

 

[shujaatK]

The F-16 BLOCK 50/52 is a good buy,what impresses me the most is that P.A.F chose F-16 as against Rafale,Gripen or EF-2000(may I say so).The current aircraft along with the weapons package would certainly add teeth to P.A.F which I assume would not have been the case if P.A.F would have opted for Rafale or Gripen.Having said that what baffles me is why did not P.A.F consider F-18 S/H if at all they required an A/C in class of Rafale and EF-typhoon.

Normally,the PAF is not inclined twords a twin jet.
Logistics.
The J-10 can pretty much do what the F-18 can,(probably much more).
The Rafale is much superior to the F-18, but it is costly,and it would require a totaly new, expensive set-up.

 

[shujaatK]

well, you would imagine that the Mirage and F-7 will be slowly removed from service as the newer fighters are getting inducted.

Why?
The F7PG is less than 4 years in service !
The PAF has been currently spending 100s of millions of US$ upgrading the Mirages. What is the point of this, unless they are to be kept in service.

 

[TheDefender]

Why?
The F7PG is less than 4 years in service !
The PAF has been currently spending 100s of millions of US$ upgrading the Mirages. What is the point of this, unless they are to be kept in service.

Shujaat listen
The planes which are more older would be replaced firstly nd that is Mrage III.It is goona be replaced first and when the other planes will becom ageing they will also get replaced.IMO A-5 will not gt replacement till the induction of the J10s because they are good and can fill the gap well and also suits PAF.The F7PGs are new and upgraded and they re the only planes which have greater speed and can fight after the F-16s.So man dont get worried the older the planes gets it will be replaced. hope the other planes will not be in service as MirageIII because they are very old and need instant rplacement.I want to mention here that those which have got ROSE III upgradation will not be replaced.I think they are the Mirage IIIs if not then they are Mirage V.

 

[ali.uaf]

As you say!!!
PAF has purchased a large quantity of Mirage lll/V,and even larger quantities of spares, and they will be around for decades. As will the F-7PG.
It seems that the PAFwill have:
Mirage lll/V
F-7PG
F-16, (old and new)
JF-17
J-10
over the next decades.
A logistics nightmare enough.
(The transports/choppers add to this).

.
True it ll be a logistic nightmare and adding to it i dont think Russia is willing to sell planes to Pak due to several political reasons i dont wana go in we all knw why.
but the point of worry for me is that if USA ll sell multirole planes to India (126 needed) and Russia already sold Su.30 to India and they ll make many under liscence dan what options Pakistan have to go with as both want India to be a potential customer in the longer run ....... i really think that we should go for Rafale 1-bcoz France is time trusted as u cn see agosta class sumrine sold to us wen we were in need 2-Rafale is gud plane which can fulfil our requirments , freedom and selfrespect has no price guyz just look at Lebanon which Presiden Musharaf pointed in his latest speech as well
Thnxx
Ali

 

[ali.uaf]

Normally,the PAF is not inclined twords a twin jet.
Logistics.
The J-10 can pretty much do what the F-18 can,(probably much more).
The Rafale is much superior to the F-18, but it is costly,and it would require a totaly new, expensive set-up.

We have heard rumours of a improved j-10 with DSI intakes and possible Thrust Vectoring but all the pictures we have seen till now have been photoshoped to relect that change. This Picture looks very authenticated. Also the new 100 engines the chineese ordered were supposed to be improved variants of the existing engines which is specifying either imrpoved thrust to power ratio or Thrust Vectoring. The thing which surprise me most about Chinese plane designs is that they tend to improve or add new stuff in their planes at a very early life cycle unlike USA which tends to modify there planes or give them a MLU atleast after a decade. Considering J-10 entered service in 2003 and chinese already have made changes to it after only 3 years. The other example could be the changes chinese made in the 4th prototype of the Thunder.
If you remember properly as well, when the deal was announced of Pakistan purchasing JF-17, F-16 and J-10, it specifically mentioned that Pakistan will be going for the new improved version of the J-10. Plus it would be intresting to know the improvements these changes would bring in the combat scenerio.

 

[XEROX]

The J-10 can pretty much do what the F-18 can,(probably much more).
The Rafale is much superior to the F-18, but it is costly,and it would require a totaly new, expensive set-up.

Thats a good one :rotfl, the avionics, sensors are whats makes an a/c, no way can j-10 match that kind of capability, i wouldnt say that Rafales are "much superior" to F/A-18 EF BLOCK 2s

 

[mysterious]

I just read earlier in the day that the F-16s being sold to Pakistan would not have nuclear delivery systems and also some key techs would be stripped off of them before being handed over to PAF. How true is this?

 

[P.A.F]

I just read earlier in the day that the F-16s being sold to Pakistan would not have nuclear delivery systems and also some key techs would be stripped off of them before being handed over to PAF. How true is this?

I read it too. here's a link
http://andhravision.com/daily/22july3.htm
by the way it's an indian source so i'll leave it for u to make a judgement.