just read in Australian aviation magazine, june 2006....Pakistan gov approved purchase of 55 F16 c/d new builds and 22 F16a/b used as well as 100 FC1/JF17,sorry guys no link yet,maybe someone else may be able to provide it. I know this just adds more confusion to the issue, but thats what was reported in the military intell section.....
Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions
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neh..i dnt think link is needed. Pretty well known news. Yes the news is correct or say was. This was the PAF plan prior to october 2005 Earth Quake. Due to the Earth Quake Pakistan had to cut short the number of F-16s for the time being.old faithful said:
Now the deal includes 18 new F-16 Block 50/52+ C/D (with option for 18 more), 22 used F-16s A/B and 36 J-10/F-10 from China. The actual plan is said to have 100 F-16s inducted in PAF (including the one already in inventory). When will be the other F-16s bought ? No word on that.
JF-17 will be produced in Pakistan and plan is to induct 150. Number may increase or decrease according to PAF's requirement.
So far it is like:
1. 40 to 58 F-16s (not including the ones in service - number may increase in future to bring it to 100) > USA/Lockheed-Martin
2. 36+ J-10 > CAC/China (Deal not finialised though)
3. 100 to 150 JF-17
4th Gen aircraft (e.g. EF-2000, Rafale etc) > Plan kept on pending for some time to come.
According to GEO Tv and couple of other news Sources, Pakistan (Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz to be more precise) has offered JF-17 thunder to Morocoo. There is a chance Pakistan might offer JF-17 Thunder to Libya as well since PM is going to visit the country next.
yes sabre,i realise that this is old news,although i got the impression that PAF may have been reacting to IAF F18E/F deal and reassessed yet again! as i said the article was published for the JUNE 2006 adittion and the revised J10 etc deal has been reported in previous editions of the same publication...could be just bad journalists...we seem to have more than our fair share of them in Aust! (looking forward to Aust v Pak in the cricket again,after the next ashes series i hope!)
India has not decided on F-18 yet. But even if it does J-10 with Western modifications (western avionics) can be a good counter measure. However, new chinese avionics also seem to be impressive. Some of them are said to be at par or better than Russian. & mind you, F-16 is not inferior to F-18 either.old faithful said:yes sabre,i realise that this is old news,although i got the impression that PAF may have been reacting to IAF F18E/F deal and reassessed yet again! as i said the article was published for the JUNE 2006 adittion and the revised J10 etc deal has been reported in previous editions of the same publication...could be just bad journalists...we seem to have more than our fair share of them in Aust! (looking forward to Aust v Pak in the cricket again,after the next ashes series i hope!)
The reason for reassessment on F-16 was the october 2005 Earth Quake. Its not that PAF has cut down the requirement number of F-16s, but rather has divided into time period. 40 to 58 right now, while the purchase of other f-16s can be decided later on as it is believed that plan to have 100 F-16s at least is still on.
(Its going to be long wait to see Pak vs Aust Cricket match this year)
from the limited info available, the J10 seems to be an exciting development. The biggest questions are radar,and power plant. biggest concern with engine reliability,although i must say that Karma have proved to be very resorceful and have done an amazing job with your mirages. Service times on Eastern engines seem to be short as well as actual flying hours between replacement. The F18s are a very capable aircraft, and will get first shot over an F16 in most cases, however,with expearienced pilots and erieye the F16 mlu and blk 50/52+ make it a fair fight. Only if late model AIM120,s are aquired. Now i have heard that the U.S is selling the PAF 500 BVR missiles in the F16 deal, however no mention of Aim120, only that its bvr, could just be Aim7,s. Upgraded Aust F18 are a handfull for any aircraft flying,APG73,HMS Aim120C and ASSRAM, when they are backed up by Wedgetail Awacs, only stealth will save opponents. No one can tell me wether Amraam or any other BVR can"see" stealth fighters, i doubt very much a small radar in the nose of an AA missile will be able to detect a head on target to get maximum benefit of BVR.
(Aust A hosting a limited overs tourny in Darwin and Cairns later this year, do you know if PakA will attend? )
(Aust A hosting a limited overs tourny in Darwin and Cairns later this year, do you know if PakA will attend? )
hovercraft
New Member
anyone know the radar cross section of new JF-17?
PAF to buy Austrian AWACS
Geo TV is reporting that Pakistani cabinet has approved the purchase of AWACS from Austria. Looks like PAF has gone for the Austrian E3-A Sentry. If true, does this mean they will not buy the ERIEYE or I may be wrong.
Any comments!
Geo TV is reporting that Pakistani cabinet has approved the purchase of AWACS from Austria. Looks like PAF has gone for the Austrian E3-A Sentry. If true, does this mean they will not buy the ERIEYE or I may be wrong.
Any comments!
umair said:
thats what i was thinking an E3! the amount of negotiations that would involve and the approvals!
Does anyone think a second hand E3 would be worth going for!
does anyone have an idea about which version of the Eyrie it , the Link 16 variant. I reckon that would boost interoperability with other Air-forces but would be a downgrade from the original swedish datalink!
on the other hand the Link 16 would compliment the F-16's and other COTS Data-links installed on other Fighters in PAF inventory!
Yeah ... but if you havent noticed, its only GEO Tv that screws up the news. They seem to be more interested in making money tha spreading the information. Some how their news paper department (the famous Jang) has better information than them. Perhaps print media journalists have better knowledge and time togather information than the Televised Media.umair said:
Anyways. It PTV, ARY & corrected news on GEO stated purchase of news AWACs from Sweden. Its the same ERIEYE deal...consider it official announcement.
But the most interesting part of the news was on ARY1World in which they said that Prime Minister has given go ahead to develop Pakistan's own Airborne Early Warning Radar and control system. Now wether he ment ToT from some country (Sweden/US) or "Indigenous" is yet to be clearified.
Austria doesn't operate E-3's.pshamim said:
I don't think that the Austrians have any airborne detection capability.pshamim said:
according to Scramble (who are pretty accurate 90% of the time)
http://www.scramble.nl/at.htm
GF thanks for the information. I also looked up after your post and found you to be correct. Austria never had the AWACS but allowed NATO's Awacs to use its air space as a show of its solidarity with NATO.
Thanks to you, learnt something new.
By the way, according to Air Attache at Pak Embassy in Washington D.C., they also looked into the possible purchase of Boeing/s 737 AWACS but found it to be too expensive-hence the erieye.
Thanks to you, learnt something new.
By the way, according to Air Attache at Pak Embassy in Washington D.C., they also looked into the possible purchase of Boeing/s 737 AWACS but found it to be too expensive-hence the erieye.
Not a problem.pshamim said:
re the AWACs/AEW&Cs for Pakistan - I think they're far better served with more numerous smaller platforms anyway.
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http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C06%5C03%5Cstory_3-6-2006_pg11_7
Induction of Swedish AWACS, JF-17 fighter jets: Air force set on path to becoming battle-ready
ISLAMABAD: The introduction of sophisticated electronic equipment and new fighter aircraft, including the Swedish Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) and JF-17 Thunder aircraft, into the combat fleet of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) promises to dramatically increase its existing operational capabilities.
Last week, the federal cabinet approved a $1 billion deal with Sweden for the purchase of AWACS, while the joint Sino-Pak venture for developing the multi-role fighter JF-17 Thunder is on its way to serial production after its test flights proved successful.
“Pakistan can no longer afford to neglect the enlargement of its air force and the AWACS will prove to be the mainstay for maintaining the regional arms balance,” experts said.
Last year, India signed an agreement with Israel for purchasing three Phalcon airborne surveillance radars for the Indian Air Force. The radars have the capability to monitor the country’s airspace and have seriously threatened the existing air defence balance in the region. “Pakistan’s decision to buy AWACS from Sweden will counter the recent Indian acquisitions,” the experts said.
The government is trying to keep up with modern developments in air defence to enable the PAF to provide the most effective air defence to the country.
“In order to safeguard the airspace of Pakistan, it was necessary to have the latest airborne early warning system called Erieye for the PAF, equipped with state-of-the-art surveillance technology,” defence analysts said.
The move shows the government’s commitment to making the air arm of its armed forces effective and capable of thwarting any aggressive action and that the government attaches high priority to acquiring the latest defence equipment, the analysts said.
The defence sources said that the new surveillance systems would be fitted in the SAAB 2000 aircraft. The SAAB 2000, with a cruise speed of over 665 kilometres per hour, is one of the world’s fastest turboprop aircrafts. It combines near jet speeds, including near jet climb and descent rates, with turboprop fuel economy.
As far as the operational capabilities of the Erieye are concerned, it is going to provide all-weather surveillance, command, control and communications facilities to the PAF. It can also be used as a surveillance asset in support of other law enforcement agencies besides providing surveillance assistance in the maritime sector. The aircraft fitted with the Erieye can also be used in missions to detect smuggling activities on the country’s borders and for collecting weather data. Erieye - developed by Ericsson Microwave Systems - is the first long-range, high-performance AWE&C system that can be installed in relatively small commercial and military turboprop aircraft. The system consists of an active phased-array pulse-Doppler radar, an integrated secondary surveillance radar, the ability to distinguish between friend or foe (SSR/IFF), a comprehensive, modular command-and-control system, electronic warfare support measures (ESM) and communications and data links. Instead of using the conventional rotodome antennas, Erieye has a fixed, dual-sided and electronically scanned antenna mounted on top of the fuselage, which enables it to be installed on commuter-type aircraft. The Erieye is capable of 360-degree surveillance, detection and tracking of airborne and sea targets and has a range of 450 kilometres and its detection range against a fighter aircraft size target is 350 kilometres. These radars are already in service with the Swedish Air Force and also in serial production for Brazil and other customers. Germany has also recently placed an order for purchasing the system. The JF-17 fighter aircraft (Thunder) project is also another ambitious project that would increase the striking capability of the PAF.
The infrastructure development project for producing JF-17 aircraft at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra has already started and production on a small scale is expected to begin shortly. “The small batch production of JF-17 would begin in the second half of this year,” said a senior military official. The first consignment of four aircraft would be delivered by March 2007. Initially Pakistan has placed an order of 150 aircraft and China 250 aircraft and production capacity of PAC Kamra would be over 20 aircraft annually. The JF-17 is planned to be a replacement of the aging fighter fleet of the PAF. The aircraft will be capable of carrying short range and beyond visual range air-to-air missiles and anti-ship as well as anti-radiation missiles. It will also have the capability of using laser guided, runway cratering and cluster bombs. It will be equipped with a state-of-the-art avionics package to provide all-weather navigation and attack capability. The on-board multimode radar will have the capability to simultaneously track multiple targets and its advanced electronic warfare suite will provide it with its own electronic countermeasure protection and jamming capabilities. The PAF has also recently completed avionics upgrade of its Mirage aircraft in collaboration with the French company Sagem. The modification has substantially increased the air-to-air and air-to-ground precision weapons release capability of the aircraft. Similarly, engines of the F-16 aircraft have been upgraded to increase their operational life and performance. The country is also going to purchase more F-16 aircraft from the US that will include the “A and B” type and “C and D” modern variants of the aircraft. With the induction of the batch of Fighting Falcons, the air defence of the country would be further enhanced. app
Induction of Swedish AWACS, JF-17 fighter jets: Air force set on path to becoming battle-ready
ISLAMABAD: The introduction of sophisticated electronic equipment and new fighter aircraft, including the Swedish Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) and JF-17 Thunder aircraft, into the combat fleet of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) promises to dramatically increase its existing operational capabilities.
Last week, the federal cabinet approved a $1 billion deal with Sweden for the purchase of AWACS, while the joint Sino-Pak venture for developing the multi-role fighter JF-17 Thunder is on its way to serial production after its test flights proved successful.
“Pakistan can no longer afford to neglect the enlargement of its air force and the AWACS will prove to be the mainstay for maintaining the regional arms balance,” experts said.
Last year, India signed an agreement with Israel for purchasing three Phalcon airborne surveillance radars for the Indian Air Force. The radars have the capability to monitor the country’s airspace and have seriously threatened the existing air defence balance in the region. “Pakistan’s decision to buy AWACS from Sweden will counter the recent Indian acquisitions,” the experts said.
The government is trying to keep up with modern developments in air defence to enable the PAF to provide the most effective air defence to the country.
“In order to safeguard the airspace of Pakistan, it was necessary to have the latest airborne early warning system called Erieye for the PAF, equipped with state-of-the-art surveillance technology,” defence analysts said.
The move shows the government’s commitment to making the air arm of its armed forces effective and capable of thwarting any aggressive action and that the government attaches high priority to acquiring the latest defence equipment, the analysts said.
The defence sources said that the new surveillance systems would be fitted in the SAAB 2000 aircraft. The SAAB 2000, with a cruise speed of over 665 kilometres per hour, is one of the world’s fastest turboprop aircrafts. It combines near jet speeds, including near jet climb and descent rates, with turboprop fuel economy.
As far as the operational capabilities of the Erieye are concerned, it is going to provide all-weather surveillance, command, control and communications facilities to the PAF. It can also be used as a surveillance asset in support of other law enforcement agencies besides providing surveillance assistance in the maritime sector. The aircraft fitted with the Erieye can also be used in missions to detect smuggling activities on the country’s borders and for collecting weather data. Erieye - developed by Ericsson Microwave Systems - is the first long-range, high-performance AWE&C system that can be installed in relatively small commercial and military turboprop aircraft. The system consists of an active phased-array pulse-Doppler radar, an integrated secondary surveillance radar, the ability to distinguish between friend or foe (SSR/IFF), a comprehensive, modular command-and-control system, electronic warfare support measures (ESM) and communications and data links. Instead of using the conventional rotodome antennas, Erieye has a fixed, dual-sided and electronically scanned antenna mounted on top of the fuselage, which enables it to be installed on commuter-type aircraft. The Erieye is capable of 360-degree surveillance, detection and tracking of airborne and sea targets and has a range of 450 kilometres and its detection range against a fighter aircraft size target is 350 kilometres. These radars are already in service with the Swedish Air Force and also in serial production for Brazil and other customers. Germany has also recently placed an order for purchasing the system. The JF-17 fighter aircraft (Thunder) project is also another ambitious project that would increase the striking capability of the PAF.
The infrastructure development project for producing JF-17 aircraft at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra has already started and production on a small scale is expected to begin shortly. “The small batch production of JF-17 would begin in the second half of this year,” said a senior military official. The first consignment of four aircraft would be delivered by March 2007. Initially Pakistan has placed an order of 150 aircraft and China 250 aircraft and production capacity of PAC Kamra would be over 20 aircraft annually. The JF-17 is planned to be a replacement of the aging fighter fleet of the PAF. The aircraft will be capable of carrying short range and beyond visual range air-to-air missiles and anti-ship as well as anti-radiation missiles. It will also have the capability of using laser guided, runway cratering and cluster bombs. It will be equipped with a state-of-the-art avionics package to provide all-weather navigation and attack capability. The on-board multimode radar will have the capability to simultaneously track multiple targets and its advanced electronic warfare suite will provide it with its own electronic countermeasure protection and jamming capabilities. The PAF has also recently completed avionics upgrade of its Mirage aircraft in collaboration with the French company Sagem. The modification has substantially increased the air-to-air and air-to-ground precision weapons release capability of the aircraft. Similarly, engines of the F-16 aircraft have been upgraded to increase their operational life and performance. The country is also going to purchase more F-16 aircraft from the US that will include the “A and B” type and “C and D” modern variants of the aircraft. With the induction of the batch of Fighting Falcons, the air defence of the country would be further enhanced. app
Salam Every One...
I am reading all these from a long time. Every one is mainly talking about the F16s, at least we just have to forget F16. If FRENCH can sell Mairages, Dolphines & Agusta to Pakistan and India why RUSSIA can. Russians they need money, India is also looking towars US this is a good time. As well as we are growing contacts with Sweeden and SAAB this is also Important to grow contacts with SOVITS there wepons are good and they smarter and even cheeper the US.If China have good relations with SOVITS this will be our trun know we can cash this as we done it in JF-17 by inducting Russian RD93 Upgraded Engine of MIG 27 .. Its good to hears about some one says to inducut RAFLE this is a good option rather then F16.
Well I will be happy if PAF have these Birds
F16 Upto 50 or 60
F7PG Upto 100
JF 17 80
Rafle 30
SAAB Gripen 25 or 50 With Eri Eye on SAAB 2000
and if they Got Some
MiG Like 27/29 Upto 20 to 30
SU 27/30 Upto 10 to 20
This will be lovely what you people think
I am reading all these from a long time. Every one is mainly talking about the F16s, at least we just have to forget F16. If FRENCH can sell Mairages, Dolphines & Agusta to Pakistan and India why RUSSIA can. Russians they need money, India is also looking towars US this is a good time. As well as we are growing contacts with Sweeden and SAAB this is also Important to grow contacts with SOVITS there wepons are good and they smarter and even cheeper the US.If China have good relations with SOVITS this will be our trun know we can cash this as we done it in JF-17 by inducting Russian RD93 Upgraded Engine of MIG 27 .. Its good to hears about some one says to inducut RAFLE this is a good option rather then F16.
Well I will be happy if PAF have these Birds
F16 Upto 50 or 60
F7PG Upto 100
JF 17 80
Rafle 30
SAAB Gripen 25 or 50 With Eri Eye on SAAB 2000
and if they Got Some
MiG Like 27/29 Upto 20 to 30
SU 27/30 Upto 10 to 20
This will be lovely what you people think
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