Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[suryaaa]

The words "secret" and "classified" are terms you should study before asking a well advised and well credited source with such a tone. Just because it is not heavily splashed around or boasted does not mean it is false; China could have launched satellites that contain Pakistani cargo - extremely plausable.

No one said that those weapons were already launched, but what makes you think that Pakistan is not part of some large project to get such weapons launched? If India can supposedly go ahead and produce hyperspeed engines and what not; why is it that Pakistan could not go ahead and develop space weapons...that too with China? If a forum jocky like you would know what it takes to put such weapons into space...the least bit of common sence would tell you that the scientists and engineers in Pakistan's space program would know it too and better.

So Pakistan would not be willing to pay the heavy price?

i am not saying that pak is not developing such systems, but you must thimk about the money factor,these thing wont come in cheap,you have to spent lots of money on it,their may be failuers but you have to go on ,and i think pak has no such economy at present to back her ambitious projects .if they are developing such tech means they spending less on other civilian projects .

if i am wrong please correct me with solid statement(proof):drunk1

 

[aaaditya]

What makes you think that they do not have the capability at the moment. Several Chinese launches have already carried Pakistani payload into the space. Can any one say for sure what it contained. If you do, please let us know.

payload is different from the launch vehicle,tell me how many satellite launch facilitties and master control facilities and tracking stations does pakistan have.payloads are equipments like satellites,high definition cameras ,space based communications payloads ,space base synthetic aperture radars,microgravity research capsules etc.

 

[aaaditya]

powerslavenegi and suryaaa;

The Badr-1 (1st Satellite) was launched by Chinese, while Badr-2 (2nd Satellite) was launched by Russians from a base near Uzubikistan. In my circle of sources it is said that the Russians did not even inquire the purpose of the Satellite nor inspected the Satellite.

On the other hand. Pakistan may very well be working on its own launch-pads (most probably along with China). There are alot of Pakistani boys who have left their jobs at NASA to join work here in Pakistan after 9/11. And many more are joining in.

my knowledge of actual space technology is quite limited,but the basic knowledege is that leo satellites are completely different from the gto satellites.

badr satellites are leo satellites(low earth orbit satellites),they are just preliminary steps ,these satellites are placed within the earth's orbit and have to use their own power to move about ,this limits their range.

even countries like thailand,south korea ,and several countries have these technologies ,india launched their leo's in the 70's and 80;s and have now stopped these in favour of gto satellites.

the gto satellites are satellites which are placed in the geo transfer orbits these orbits are egg shaped with an apogee of 36000kms and perigee of 450kms.

these satellites are influenced by the earths gravitational field making them appear to be stationery with respect to the earth,they also have a large coverage and a very long life,these satellites can be in service 3 to 5 times longer than the leo's and are very heavy (1500-7500kgs).

the leo satellites can be launched with the help of a modified ballistic missile(srbm),the next step is polar satellites,these satellites are placed in the polar sun synchronous orbit ,iam sorry i cannot give you much information about these types except that they are placed at a higher altitude than the leo's,after the polar satellites come the gto satellites,the launch technology gets more complex with each type.

however now the trend is in microsatellites,these satellites weigh just a few kilogrammes and can carry out the functions and the life spans of a larger(leo) satellites,countries like israel,uk,usa are considered world leaders in this technology,countries like india and china form the next rung.

even more advanced technology is that of nano-satellites,these satellites weigh a few grammes ,as far as i know many countries including india (jointly with israel) are carrying out research in these satellites but they are still in the nascent stage.

the advantage of nano and micro satellites are their low cost ,a satellite launch cost(5000-7500$/kg)in india and china and this is the lowest cost,whereas in usa ,eu and japan they can cost as high as 7500-15000dollars per kilogramme.

this is one of the prime reason why several countries are developing hypersonic vehicles,while satellites can carry around 10ton payload maximum(while consuming 20 times that weight in fuel),for example a 220 ton launcher launching a 5 ton payload.
whereas a hypersonic vehicle weighing 300 tons can launch a 30 ton payload,while consuming just a fraction of the fuel that a rocket consumes,and at a fraction of the cost .

if you are realy interested i will try to find a couple of literature on the net for you,also you can try the isro website or the pakistani space agency website iam sure they will contain all these informations.

 

[SABRE]

my knowledge of actual space technology is quite limited,but the basic knowledege is that leo satellites are completely different from the gto satellites.

badr satellites are leo satellites(low earth orbit satellites),they are just preliminary steps ,these satellites are placed within the earth's orbit and have to use their own power to move about ,this limits their range.

even countries like thailand,south korea ,and several countries have these technologies ,india launched their leo's in the 70's and 80;s and have now stopped these in favour of gto satellites.

the gto satellites are satellites which are placed in the geo transfer orbits these orbits are egg shaped with an apogee of 36000kms and perigee of 450kms.

these satellites are influenced by the earths gravitational field making them appear to be stationery with respect to the earth,they also have a large coverage and a very long life,these satellites can be in service 3 to 5 times longer than the leo's and are very heavy (1500-7500kgs).

the leo satellites can be launched with the help of a modified ballistic missile(srbm),the next step is polar satellites,these satellites are placed in the polar sun synchronous orbit ,iam sorry i cannot give you much information about these types except that they are placed at a higher altitude than the leo's,after the polar satellites come the gto satellites,the launch technology gets more complex with each type.

however now the trend is in microsatellites,these satellites weigh just a few kilogrammes and can carry out the functions and the life spans of a larger(leo) satellites,countries like israel,uk,usa are considered world leaders in this technology,countries like india and china form the next rung.

even more advanced technology is that of nano-satellites,these satellites weigh a few grammes ,as far as i know many countries including india (jointly with israel) are carrying out research in these satellites but they are still in the nascent stage.

the advantage of nano and micro satellites are their low cost ,a satellite launch cost(5000-7500$/kg)in india and china and this is the lowest cost,whereas in usa ,eu and japan they can cost as high as 7500-15000dollars per kilogramme.

this is one of the prime reason why several countries are developing hypersonic vehicles,while satellites can carry around 10ton payload maximum(while consuming 20 times that weight in fuel),for example a 220 ton launcher launching a 5 ton payload.
whereas a hypersonic vehicle weighing 300 tons can launch a 30 ton payload,while consuming just a fraction of the fuel that a rocket consumes,and at a fraction of the cost .

if you are realy interested i will try to find a couple of literature on the net for you,also you can try the isro website or the pakistani space agency website iam sure they will contain all these informations.

And u r saying u have limited knowledge in this field. Compared to mine you are an expert. I dont even knw the difference between leo and gto.

Anyways; Badr-1 and Badr-2 are LEO, this much I can tell and so can you.
Badr-1 was launched by chinese LM-2E Booster and was lost in space in 1990-1991. Badr-2 was launched by Russian rocket. Badr-2 is nothing out of extraorinary, it is meant for telecommunications and the exploration of the atmosphere.

The status for Badr-3 and the 4th Satellite are unknown, so I cant say what launch platform they require. However, (an hour ago) I managed to find that Pakistan is under development of its own SLV, but couldnt find the status of that either. If that could be disclose you can probably guess the status of the two new Satellites. The work on SLV began on 2001-2, so it has still alot to catch up with. (The [SIZE=-1]SUPARCO HQ isnt far from my house, may be a can sneak in tonight )[/SIZE]

There is another, 5th Satellite. The 5th is a cooperation between public (SUPARCO most probably) and private sector. Its mostly said to be private.

 

[aaaditya]

And u r saying u have limited knowledge in this field. Compared to mine you are an expert. I dont even knw the difference between leo and gto.

Anyways; Badr-1 and Badr-2 are LEO, this much I cant tell and so can you.
Badr-1 was launched by chinese LM-2E Booster and was lost in space in 1990-1991. Badr-2 was launched by Russian rocket. Badr-2 is nothing out of extraorinary, it is meant for telecommunications and the exploration of the atmosphere.

The status for Badr-3 and the 4th Satellite are unknown, so I cant say what launch platform they require. However, (an hour ago) I managed to find that Pakistan is under development of its own SLV, but couldnt find the status of that either. If that could be disclose you can probably guess the status of the two new Satellites. The work on SLV began on 2001-2, so it has still alot to catch up with. (The [SIZE=-1]SUPARCO HQ isnt far from my house, may be a can sneak in tonight )[/SIZE]

There is another, 5th Satellite. The 5th is a cooperation between public (SUPARCO most probably) and private sector. Its mostly said to be private.

iam pretty sure badr1 and 2 are leo's atleast thats what i remembered when i read the news article of their launch a long time back,unfortunately since my interest in leo's is pretty limited i did not pay much attention to it,however iam sure suparco website will contain that information,can you provide a link for the suparco website?

the knowledge which you referred to is pretty basic ,the really interesting knowledge would be about cryogenics,radar payloads,solar photovoltaic cells,the bands of communications (transmission) used ,heat shield materials etc.

unfortunately all the information that i could find about these are pretty basic,i wish i could get some advanced info on these and other space technologies.

does any one have the links of such websites ,can you please pm me?

 

[SABRE]

iam pretty sure badr1 and 2 are leo's atleast thats what i remembered when i read the news article of their launch a long time back,unfortunately since my interest in leo's is pretty limited i did not pay much attention to it,however iam sure suparco website will contain that information,can you provide a link for the suparco website?

Yes they are LEO. I accidently put "cant" instead of "can" in my above post. I have edited it.

the knowledge which you referred to is pretty basic ,the really interesting knowledge would be about cryogenics,radar payloads,solar photovoltaic cells,the bands of communications (transmission) used ,heat shield materials etc.

Well they could be basic, but i never cared to look into them.

unfortunately all the information that i could find about these are pretty basic,i wish i could get some advanced info on these and other space technologies.

does any one have the links of such websites ,can you please pm me?

If you mean u want link to websites which have insight about Pakistan's space program and setallites, than there probably isnt any. If u mean global information, than again what u will get is basic knowledge. Perhaps a bit advance than what you & I know, but still a basic to many.

 

[powerslavenegi]

The words "secret" and "classified" are terms you should study before asking a well advised and well credited source with such a tone. Just because it is not heavily splashed around or boasted does not mean it is false; China could have launched satellites that contain Pakistani cargo - extremely plausable.

It is responsibity of the member to furnish substantial proof alongside the claims ,having said that everyone knows of Pakistani satellites being hurled by Chinese boosters.Oh 'secret' and 'Classified' well better use a single word 'fictitious'.

No one said that those weapons were already launched, but what makes you think that Pakistan is not part of some large project to get such weapons launched? If India can supposedly go ahead and produce hyperspeed engines and what not; why is it that Pakistan could not go ahead and develop space weapons...that too with China? If a forum jocky like you would know what it takes to put such weapons into space...the least bit of common sence would tell you that the scientists and engineers in Pakistan's space program would know it too and better.

I never raised any doubts over Pakistan's R&D,But there is huge diff in being able to develop the technology and putting it to tactical use,moreover a country that has built 4-5 satellites it is safe to assume that those might be Technology demonstrators in areas of Remote sensing or Telecom purposes.

Pakistan would not be willing to pay the heavy price?

Question is whether she CAN :haha

 

[umair]

She can. Remember never under estimate you'r adversary, never.

 

[BilalK]

It is responsibity of the member to furnish substantial proof alongside the claims ,having said that everyone knows of Pakistani satellites being hurled by Chinese boosters.Oh 'secret' and 'Classified' well better use a single word 'fictitious'.

The first person to make a public claim regarding Pakistan's "reported" space-weapons program was a retired Pakistan Air Force officer. The first person to make a claim regarding Pakistan's "reported" space-weapons program on this forum was also a retired Pakistan Air Force officer and defence industry worker. You are a forum jocky, an enthusiast; between you and pshamim, who is more credible?

Question is whether she CAN

Many said that when Pakistan pushed for nuclear weapons, a defence industry, etc; question is, whether you and others like you are able to accept the probability of it?

 

[SABRE]

Boeing places $100m manufacturing orders with Pakistani companies
​

KARACHI:

US company Boeing has placed electronics manufacturing orders worth $100 million with Precision Engineering Company and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC).

This was stated by Director Boeing Company Seattle, USA Miguel R Santos at a seminar on “Electronics and Electrical Contract Manufacturing”, held recently.

According to EPB, the objective of the seminar was to sensitize the related Pakistani industry and obtain feedback on the subject.

He said that in next two to three years, Boeing’s outsourcing could surpass $1 billion mark for electronics and electrical manufacturing companies.

“Boeing is not only placing the orders but also providing the technical know-how by deputing their engineers to train Pakistani counterparts”, Santos added.

He pointed out that US aircraft manufacturing company has even supplied the machinery needed to prepare these parts used in their 777 aircraft model series.

The United States of America alone was out-sourcing annually over $ 600 billion worth of products to the developing countries and growing rapidly, he noted.

This unique opportunity provides increased employment and growth in Pakistan from the production and enhanced exports when such goods are exported back to the buyer.

Vice President, Boeing Glen A. Green and a Pakistani-American entrepreneur Pervaiz Lodhi also spoke. “The Next Industrial Revolution” which is outsourcing and contract manufacturing of electronics and electrical parts by the developed countries to the developing nations like Pakistan.

They said the world market is very large and growing fast as cost of production increases in developed countries and technical capabilities improve in the developing ones.

After the Seminar the chief executive and chairman of Philips-Pakistan, Shahid Zaki, director, Boeing Company Miguel Santos and vice president Boeing Glen A. Green, had a meeting with Chairman Export Promotion Bureau Tariq Ikram to discuss this opportunity and outline the way forward.

The EPB chairman constituted an action team comprising persons which are experts in their related fields to chalk out plans to capture opportunities for securing outsourcing assignments for Pakistan.

Pervaiz Lodhi, President, LED Tronics based in Torrance, California. Miguel R. Santos, Director, Boeing Company based in Seattle, Washington, Sultan ul Arfeen, Arfeen Group of Companies, Shahid Zaki, Chairman & ECO, Philips-Pakistan, Zubyr Soomro, CEO, Citygroup-Pakistan Operations, Mohsin Ali, Secretary General American Business Council of Pakistan, Riaz Khan Executive Director Marketing, Export Promotion Bureau are in the committee. It was decided to set up an electrical and electronic contract manufacturing city for this purpose.

In the meantime, Export Promotion Bureau will contract International Trade Center to get their technical expertise in order to launch the project. APP

Source: Daily Times
Link: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C05%5C04%5Cstory_4-5-2006_pg5_6

following news is just adaption of the above news.

Boeing places $100m manufacturing orders with Pakistani companies, says report
​

May 04, 2006

According to a report in The Daily (Pakistan), US company Boeing has placed electronics manufacturing orders worth $100 million with Precision Engineering Company and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC).


The report added: This was stated by Director Boeing Company Seattle, USA Miguel R Santos at a seminar on "Electronics and Electrical Contract Manufacturing", held recently.


According to EPB, the objective of the seminar was to sensitize the related Pakistani industry and obtain feedback on the subject.


He said that in next two to three years, Boeing's outsourcing could surpass $1 billion mark for electronics and electrical manufacturing companies.


"Boeing is not only placing the orders but also providing the technical know-how by deputing their engineers to train Pakistani counterparts", Santos added.

Source: emsnow
Link: http://www.emsnow.com/npps/story.cfm?ID=19008

Although this "good" news is not related to military, but an Airforce Based Aviation Company; Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) "is" involved. The news that beoing is providing machinery to prepare parts of aircrafts and also providing technical know how will boost PAC's capability. This also proves working capability and quality of PAC, which will further increase with orders such as these.

Also, China is to order (or has ordered) Boeing 777 aircrafts from U.S in pretty large numbers. If Pakistan is to sell any parts to China in future than big money is at the door steps.

With such activity going on, who knows, may be Boeing offers production of F-18 parts to PAC some day as well. After all military aviation is at the core of PAC.

 

[adsH]

It is responsibity of the member to furnish substantial proof alongside the claims ,having said that everyone knows of Pakistani satellites being hurled by Chinese boosters.Oh 'secret' and 'Classified' well better use a single word 'fictitious'.


I never raised any doubts over Pakistan's R&D,But there is huge diff in being able to develop the technology and putting it to tactical use,moreover a country that has built 4-5 satellites it is safe to assume that those might be Technology demonstrators in areas of Remote sensing or Telecom purposes.



Question is whether she CAN :haha

I work in the high-tech industry, and believe me i have to say i've lately been coming across allot of talented Subcontinent engineers, Some are form India some from Pakistan. Believe me its very hard for foreign engineers to work in the UK. jobs are practically blocked off for UK and EU citizen so geting through those blocks you have to be exceptional.

believe me when i say that just because you don't hear success stories from the pakistani side doesn't meen there arn't any.

Just an example PAF in its own right is one of the most tech savvy user/developer i've ever come across.

 

[powerslavenegi]

Credibilty

The first person to make a public claim regarding Pakistan's "reported" space-weapons program was a retired Pakistan Air Force officer. The first person to make a claim regarding Pakistan's "reported" space-weapons program on this forum was also a retired Pakistan Air Force officer and defence industry worker. You are a forum jocky, an enthusiast; between you and pshamim, who is more credible?

Credibilty is not a relativistic term it is absolute(there is nothing called more or less credible).By the way I havent made any claims but have sought clarifications,moreover WYSIWYG(What you see is wht you get)

Many said that when Pakistan pushed for nuclear weapons, a defence industry, etc; question is, whether you and others like you are able to accept the probability of it?

Nukes Eh.. everyone has them now,having said that I am still apprehensive of the fact whether both INDIA and PAKISTAN have been able to fabricate miniaturised warheads for arming their missiles.

 

[SABRE]

​

JF-17 Thunder PT-4 operational test flight successful​

Chengdu, China May 10 (APP):



The fourth prototype of JF-17 Thunder aircraft, equipped with exclusive avionics and weapons qualification systems, jointly manufactured by Pakistan and China completed its maiden test operational flight here Wednesday, proving its creditability to meet the needs of both the countries.


The 11 minutes flight at 1500 meters height with 500 kilometers speed per hour. It took off from People’s Liberation Air force base, Chengdu and landed back on the same runway, reporting perfect performance.


Chief of Pakistan Air Force, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed who was chief guest at the maiden flight ceremony congratulated the pilots, engineers and technicians of the two countries to make the JF-17 Thunder project successful.


The ceremony was attended by the top officials of Chinese Aviation Industry and relevant departments.


Incorporating advanced design and state-of-the-art technology, the plane demonstrated outstanding agility and performance parameters. It was a successful trial flight in which pilot of the one-seated aircraft completed all preset subjects and ended up a smooth landing.


The successful maiden flight proved the reliable performance of the aircraft and demonstrated that Pakistan and Chinese aviation industry have grown capable of developing a new aircraft.


Pakistan Air Force officials told APP that the aircraft has comprehensive combat capability of a third generation fighter. The plane is capable of carrying multiple air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons.


The combat aircraft is a cooperative project between the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Group located in the southwest province of Sichuan and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra. The success of the test flight marks a significant step in the development of aviation industry of the two countries. Its mass production is possible.


Addressing the ceremony, Air Chief Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed said the success of JF-17 thunder joint programme will usher a new era of strategic partnership between the two friendly countries in the aviation field. He termed the success of the PT-4 maiden flight a big achievement in the aviation history in recent years.


He noted that trial flight has laid a solid foundation of further cooperation between the two countries to meet future challenges.


President China Aviation Industries Corporation Liu Guazhou in his address on the occasion said the JF-17 Thunder is key project of the Sino-Pak bilateral cooperation in the military field. The test flight has proved that engineers and technicians enjoys high capability of designing and manufacturing advanced highly-efficient combat aircraft, he added.


With advanced design and manufacturing technology, this export-oriented fighter plane is small, low in cost and suitable for modern warfare and demands of military fighters. While earlier prototypes have focused on operational flight capabilities, the fourth prototype was aimed at especially testing the weapons.


The plane is capable of carrying multiple air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons. Pakistan Air Force plans to induct more than 100 Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Aircrafts. Small batch production of the single-seat, single-engine JF-17, will begin in China in June and would be delivered to Pakistan next year.



Source: APP

http://app.com.pk/n32.htm

JF-17 PT-4 flew its official inugural (successful) flight today. According to ACM of PAF, the fighter aircraft still has to go to few more radar and avionics tests before it hits the production line in China in June and next year in June the production will start in Pakistan.

 

[tphuang]

following news is just adaption of the above news.




Although this "good" news is not related to military, but an Airforce Based Aviation Company; Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) "is" involved. The news that beoing is providing machinery to prepare parts of aircrafts and also providing technical no how will boost PAC's capability. This also proves working capability and quality of PAC, which will further increase with orders such as these.

Also, China is to order (or has ordered) Boeing 777 aircrafts from U.S in pretty large numbers. If Pakistan is to sell any parts to China in future than big money is at the door steps.

With such activity going on, who knows, may be Boeing offers production of F-18 parts to PAC some day as well. After all military aviation is at the core of PAC.

a little correction here
China orders 737 and 787 from the Americans, not 777.

 

[SABRE]

a little correction here
China orders 737 and 787 from the Americans, not 777.

I herd the news on BBC World. It said Boeing 777. I dont remember any thing about 737 and 787, but I am also famous for my poor listening (due to lack of attention and for some reason my right ear hears less than my left ) & I also tend to maintain a habit of forgetting things.

I'll have to do some digging (that is if I still remember after logging of from DT)

 

[SoaringEagle]

Hello All, New member

Does anyone know the exact location (in longitude and lattitude) of these Pakistani AirBases :
PAF Chuk Jhumra
PAF Rajanpur
PAF Sindhri

Much appreciated.

I'm trying to get the location of the above 3 airbases to complete my list of Google Earth images of Pakistani Airbases .

Some of the Google Earth images of Pakistani AirBases at : http://pauldevis.batcave.net/GoogleEarthPafAirbases.html

 

[TheDefender]

Hello All, New member

Does anyone know the exact location (in longitude and lattitude) of these Pakistani AirBases :
PAF Chuk Jhumra
PAF Rajanpur
PAF Sindhri

Much appreciated.

I'm trying to get the location of the above 3 airbases to complete my list of Google Earth images of Pakistani Airbases .

Some of the Google Earth images of Pakistani AirBases at : http://pauldevis.batcave.net/GoogleEarthPafAirbases.html

You have posted a good link i have saved all the images of PAF bases.Do you have any link for the indian bases.By the way i live near Chaklala Air base you would see a small stadium near the airport i live near to that.

I dont know where these places are i think they are in Punjab and Sindh but these bases must be so small that google didnt prefered it to include in the google earth.Try some maps hope you will find something

 

[SoaringEagle]

You have posted a good link i have saved all the images of PAF bases.

Thank You

Do you have any link for the indian bases.

No Sorry, Right now the only images of an Indian Airbase I have are that of Lohegaon Air Force Base in Pune where a couple of Su-30MKI's and K/MK's and some Jaguar IM's are visible. Link to Page Here (Scroll Down a bit)

 

[TheDefender]

Thank You


No Sorry, Right now the only images of an Indian Airbase I have are that of Lohegaon Air Force Base in Pune where a couple of Su-30MKI's and K/MK's and some Jaguar IM's are visible. Link to Page Here (Scroll Down a bit)

Its really a bad feeling to see the nations planes standing naked on the base :hitwall . But in war time what can Pakistan do to save its bases from cruise missiles and bombers.The previously faught wars were not assisted by this much tech now the situation can be worse for Paksitan caz its fighters are not upgraded and they cant fire a A2A missile having range more then ~10km and if they can but they dont have any BVR missiles to fire at enemies same old mirages on the bay and still operational A-5 and those interceptors F-7s :drunk . I just dont trust on PAF's F-16s Pakistan must keep them for bird hunting as far as they are not upgraded.

 

[pshamim]

Its really a bad feeling to see the nations planes standing naked on the base :hitwall . But in war time what can Pakistan do to save its bases from cruise missiles and bombers.The previously faught wars were not assisted by this much tech now the situation can be worse for Paksitan caz its fighters are not upgraded and they cant fire a A2A missile having range more then ~10km and if they can but they dont have any BVR missiles to fire at enemies same old mirages on the bay and still operational A-5 and those interceptors F-7s :drunk . I just dont trust on PAF's F-16s Pakistan must keep them for bird hunting as far as they are not upgraded.

Please research and learn before you post in this or any other thread. Your post appears to be a flamer and not based on any factual information. Refrain, learn and come back to contribute. Right now you are not doing that.