Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions
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Did some one hear the speech of Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz???? He was kinda demanding F-18s from USA.
Meanwhile, no official act or step has been taken towards the purchase of J-10 by either Chinese or Pakistani officials. What ever was in the news was verbal agreement between the two parties bound by no commitment. This may dishearten many but the thing is there is willingness in china to sell J-10 to Pakistan and willingness in Pakistan to buy it. Offcourse any official act may be made after proper discussions between two parties, on technical basis.
Meanwhile, no official act or step has been taken towards the purchase of J-10 by either Chinese or Pakistani officials. What ever was in the news was verbal agreement between the two parties bound by no commitment. This may dishearten many but the thing is there is willingness in china to sell J-10 to Pakistan and willingness in Pakistan to buy it. Offcourse any official act may be made after proper discussions between two parties, on technical basis.
Was he demanding F-16 or F-18? There is only one key between the two numbers on your keyboard
Well of course, currently we just know it is a serious contender in the PAF's plus one requirement. However in light of current and future political and financial issues, we may expect seeing J-10 in service anyways.
I'm guessing a deal like this won't be formally signed for a while. The reason is because J-10 is simply not ready for export yet due to the engine issue and the fact that pla hasn't even gotten enough J-10 yet. Clearly, what that article said is what we knew all along -> that PAF has made up their mind to purchase it. On top of that, PAF is about to tell the Americans that it wants to cut down on the F-16 requirements. It will be quite rude to say the least to announce a deal like J-10 before then.
the paks are not going to get the J-10 for a while. First the Ws-10a engine has to finish final tests, go into production and then get incoporated into J-10s. Currently they are only testing it on J-11s. After that they "mightt" get J-10. They still have to wait for the chinese gov to get their planes.
the tests are finished, it has been certified. There are official AVIC1 new reports on this. They have been in production since last year I think. And also, I'm sure they have been at least testing it out on some J-10 prototypes. Although, my belief is that they will still be ordering AL-31FN for a while, since the production rate for WS-10A is just too miniscule at the moment.norinco89 said:
TheDefender
New Member
Now PAF is going to become a custard having all flavours one is saying that PM wants F-18s the President wants to take the F-16s from the US and J-10 from then China and there could be more planes as we can see that the Russia is considering on the issue of providing defence tech to Pakistan.Shoudn't we buy 20 J-10s,20 F-16s,20 F-18s and 20 Migs or Flanker.I think it is difficult for India to make the right choice and to go for a plane which is more benificial but different planes have different characteristics India is going to buy in huge number but do Pakistan have that much capacity to handle and buy a large number and a large variety of planes.
As far as I think Pakistan should go for a small number of new F-16s and should get as many as old but upgraded ACs.J-10 must be taken caz its from a reliable cource and the BVR AAMs are gonna be inexpensive and other things relaating to maintainance and training..... etc.And if Russia agrees then PAF must think about the Chineese version of flankers i.e., J11s and Pakistan then should take aside that europeon third fighter I am just really fed up of this third fighter which PAF would aquire there are no traces for the third fighter its a nightmare.
As far as I think Pakistan should go for a small number of new F-16s and should get as many as old but upgraded ACs.J-10 must be taken caz its from a reliable cource and the BVR AAMs are gonna be inexpensive and other things relaating to maintainance and training..... etc.And if Russia agrees then PAF must think about the Chineese version of flankers i.e., J11s and Pakistan then should take aside that europeon third fighter I am just really fed up of this third fighter which PAF would aquire there are no traces for the third fighter its a nightmare.
When did Musharaf show interest in Block 60 E/F???? When Bush removed the sanctions from F-16 some govt officials pushed for Block60 E/F but the discussion came down to Block52+ only. No official demand was made for Block60E/F.BilalK said:
Talk on Gripen and EF-2000 is also still going on as well. Prime minister himself, is said to see EF-2000. Dnt knw more on it though.
this is what situation is like = :daz
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talking of gripen......
http://www.dawn.com/2006/04/09/top5.htm
Defence ties with Sweden to be boosted
RAWALPINDI, April 8: Pakistan and Sweden on Saturday expressed the desire to further boost bilateral cooperation between the two countries, particularly in the field of defence. This was discussed during a meeting between Minister for Defence Production Habibullah Warraich and Sweden’s Secretary of State Lars Danielsson.
Both sides expressed satisfaction over the existing level of cooperation and emphasised the need for greater cooperation between the two countries.
The minister apprised the visiting dignitary about the potential of the defence industry of Pakistan. The meeting discussed the possibility of undertaking a joint venture in the area of defence production.
The minister also informed Mr Danielsson about the defence requirements of Pakistan.
He thanked the Swedish government for extending generous assistance to Pakistan in the wake of the October 8 earthquake.
The meeting was also attended by the Swedish Ambassador to Pakistan Ann Wilkens and senior officials of the ministry of defence production.
On Saturday, Foreign Minister Khurshid M. Kasuri urged the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) to adopt a non-discriminatory approach towards cooperation with Pakistan in the civilian nuclear field.
The foreign minister shared Pakistan’s perspective on the India-US deal on civil nuclear cooperation with the visiting Swedish official.
According to him, a package approach would promote strategic balance in the area and prevent an arms race in the region. Such an approach would also help to meet the “legitimate energy needs of Pakistan”, he said.
Sweden is a member of the Nuclear Suppliers Group which governs the areas of export items and facilitates development of peaceful nuclear trade by providing means whereby obligations to facilitate peaceful nuclear cooperation can be implemented in a manner consistent with international nuclear non-proliferation norms.—APP
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Although the article doesn't mention the gripen, this just may be a hint towards it. it only makes sense as we are getting the erieyes too.
http://www.dawn.com/2006/04/09/top5.htm
Defence ties with Sweden to be boosted
RAWALPINDI, April 8: Pakistan and Sweden on Saturday expressed the desire to further boost bilateral cooperation between the two countries, particularly in the field of defence. This was discussed during a meeting between Minister for Defence Production Habibullah Warraich and Sweden’s Secretary of State Lars Danielsson.
Both sides expressed satisfaction over the existing level of cooperation and emphasised the need for greater cooperation between the two countries.
The minister apprised the visiting dignitary about the potential of the defence industry of Pakistan. The meeting discussed the possibility of undertaking a joint venture in the area of defence production.
The minister also informed Mr Danielsson about the defence requirements of Pakistan.
He thanked the Swedish government for extending generous assistance to Pakistan in the wake of the October 8 earthquake.
The meeting was also attended by the Swedish Ambassador to Pakistan Ann Wilkens and senior officials of the ministry of defence production.
On Saturday, Foreign Minister Khurshid M. Kasuri urged the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) to adopt a non-discriminatory approach towards cooperation with Pakistan in the civilian nuclear field.
The foreign minister shared Pakistan’s perspective on the India-US deal on civil nuclear cooperation with the visiting Swedish official.
According to him, a package approach would promote strategic balance in the area and prevent an arms race in the region. Such an approach would also help to meet the “legitimate energy needs of Pakistan”, he said.
Sweden is a member of the Nuclear Suppliers Group which governs the areas of export items and facilitates development of peaceful nuclear trade by providing means whereby obligations to facilitate peaceful nuclear cooperation can be implemented in a manner consistent with international nuclear non-proliferation norms.—APP
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Although the article doesn't mention the gripen, this just may be a hint towards it. it only makes sense as we are getting the erieyes too.
ajaybhutani
New Member
if the offer isnt gonna last then its a very bad idea to buy at all.. as how will paksitan maintain these planes ..get the spares from US when the offer closes.norinco89 said:
What I have been hearing is about a strong desire by Pakistan to go with a high number of used F-16s with Mlu while reducing the number of new F-16s. This, they feel, will help reduce the dependence on US.ajaybhutani said:
F-16 is a very popular aircraft and still considered a symbol of power in Pakistan not only by the PAF but the common man on the street. If you happen to be in Pakistan, you will never miss to see word F-16s on the back of busses, trucks, and auto rickshaws. Their owners call them F-16 with pride.
But PAF now feels strongly that acquiring the J-10 will not only provide a very capable aircraft which will reduce the need for F-16s and the dependence on US.
I do not blame them looking back to the history of US and Pakistan and changing course by acquiring more J-10s which in their opinion may be the answer to the flankers.
ajaybhutani
New Member
fighter jets arent purchased by looking at popularity but at the doctrine.pshamim said:
pakistan has already faced sanctions from US with orders cut down considerably.. theres no guarantee that this wont happen in the future.. and again pakistan is not in a condition to purchase all the tech from US too.. So i dont see it as a good decision to even go for the deal if theres a fear of sanctions in the medium future.
J10 is still a new plane. not much is known to the outside world about this plane. furthermore with such a large no of planes to replace i double china can spare its j10 production for someone else at least for the near future.
Certainlu jets arent purchased on popularity basis, but the best reason for PAF to go for F-16 is the experiene in flying and in combat. They have pitched the F-16s successfuly against the Afghans and Soviets.ajaybhutani said:
Also it is not a game of deff and dumb. In past US impossed sanctions temp. period of time and in 1997-98 after Nawaz Sharif asured democratic government that Pakistan wont be pursuing nuclear weapons, Clinton removed the sanctions from F-16 purchase. However, as a last resort to Indian threat of nuclear war Nawaz moved to test nukes and F-16 ban was re-impossed. That was dumb move by Nawaz but their were no alternatives to it.
Today, the situation is different. When Bush removed ban from F-16, Pakistan asked for future security. In reply Bush said Pakistan can buy as many F-16s as it wants and once the deal is signed he will provide congressional security. The threat that democrats will come to power and re-impose ban on Pakistan's purchase of F-16s seems to be virtualy invisible. Democrats and US Senate are now more concerned over India-US nuclear deal, incase if u have not noticed. Even John Kerry says he is against it and the deal is threat to peace in South Asia. India is now virtualy in a possition where Pakistan was in 1990s. Even former British Prime minister, John Howard, said that India will make a bomb out US nuclear technology within 3 yrs after the establishment of the facility. In addition, the Canadian PM said he will put a bil in parliment to end Nuclear cooporation with India that was signed by previous govt, as India may use it for military purpose. Once the govts in US and UK change, the attention would be more towards Indian nuclear program than towards Pakistan.
If Pakistan successfuly manuvers these scenerios, Indian deal on nuclear facility and future deals on purchase of US fighters like F-16 and F-18 can go in Jeopardy.
From where I stand, Pakistan is in safe possition for buying US technology. Besides US has a deal with Pakistan on "2nd hand stuff goes free" with Pakistan. The war on terror is not over and India, the so called another major allie against war on terror, has done nothing at all. It has captured no terrorists in over 57 yrs and no one expects it to do so in future. Pakistan's score in war in terror is highest than any ones. Probably more than that of US but Pakistan is also loosing much of its resources. Amazingly it have been UK conservatives and US Democrates who have been Sympathetic to Pakistan's loss. These Parties seemed to be more pro-Indian than Pakistan in the past and currently these parties are gaining more powers and preferance in their respective countries. Incase u havent been in touch with International news, alot of influencial members of conservative party and Democratic party have visited Pakistan in 3 yrs, even though they are not in power. Funny thing is even the october Earth Quake is inviting more possitive attitude towards Pakistan. Even under the labour party, UK is not possing a wall against Pakistan's "wish" to purchase EF-2000. The Sweds are not denying Gripen to Pakistan out right and all are on the table.
You must be woundering why I am paying more attention to India than US-Pak relations. Its quite simple. The concern that Clinton conveyed to Nawaz Sharif was that "We are concerned that you might use F-16s to drop Nukes over India" Today India has nukes and Pakistan doesnt require fighter jets to carry nukes. The concerns which were put in words by clinton, today are not-valid or void. Hence i dnt see any reason for US to re-impose senctions on Pakistan's F-16 purchase.
The major reason for Pakistan for to buy J-10 is "CHINA." For china to become regional super power it is essential for them to influence the countries in region, especially in terms of MILITARY. And Pakistan wants to make sure that Chinese dream becomes a reality. Therefore, excepting and introducing Chinese high-tech, state-of-the art in region is essantial. Pakistan is china's gateway in South Asia and ME. and in terms of military Sri Lanka and Bangladesh have signed a defence deal with Pakistan. It is for sure they will be buying Pakistan modified Chinese weapons. J-10 is just not a step to fill the gap in PAF's "needs" but rather more a political and diplomatic moved complied not by Pakistan alone but china also. Also reducing the number of F-16s in favor of J-10, will fore US to promiss more security.
This post is locked pending a discussion with "Web"
Quite frankly, its dissappointing that some of you are still compelled to bite at each other rather than engage in mature debate.
This isn't a forum of opportunity for people to run around tweaking the tails of people from other countries that they don't agree with.
If thats what motivates some of you - then find another forum.
This will be re-opened at Webs discretion and comment.
Thanks Gary and pshamim.
Pakistani and Indian threads are not meant to be used as a bashing beacon for south asians to insult and degrade each other. If you post here because you think a thread is dedicated to "your" country and somehow that makes you more special than everybody else then you are wrong. Or maybe you think that since thread is related to India or Pakistan, it is okay to bash the other side or your enemy. If you are looking for such favors, please find your self another forum (pakistan or india oriented) where you are free to bash the other side and no body cares.
There is a deep and painful political side of South Asia and then there is military side, DefenceTalk is really interested in it's military side without the boastful politics, bigotry and moronic emotionalism which leads to good threads like this and others being closed for discussion. Do we really want that? No, but we are forced to lock threads so some people will reflect and think over...
DefenceTalk is what its name says, Defence oriented website and we intend to keep it that way as well as its international flavor and if it means locking few threads, banning few (full of senseless pride, good for nothing) trouble-makers then so be it.
I apologize if I've hurt your feeling but the sad fact is that South Asians are utterly and insanly emotional and that is the reason for their misery today.
Thread reopened.
Enjoy!
Pakistani and Indian threads are not meant to be used as a bashing beacon for south asians to insult and degrade each other. If you post here because you think a thread is dedicated to "your" country and somehow that makes you more special than everybody else then you are wrong. Or maybe you think that since thread is related to India or Pakistan, it is okay to bash the other side or your enemy. If you are looking for such favors, please find your self another forum (pakistan or india oriented) where you are free to bash the other side and no body cares.
There is a deep and painful political side of South Asia and then there is military side, DefenceTalk is really interested in it's military side without the boastful politics, bigotry and moronic emotionalism which leads to good threads like this and others being closed for discussion. Do we really want that? No, but we are forced to lock threads so some people will reflect and think over...
DefenceTalk is what its name says, Defence oriented website and we intend to keep it that way as well as its international flavor and if it means locking few threads, banning few (full of senseless pride, good for nothing) trouble-makers then so be it.
I apologize if I've hurt your feeling but the sad fact is that South Asians are utterly and insanly emotional and that is the reason for their misery today.
Thread reopened.
Enjoy!