Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[umair]

The avionics package for the new Falcons has been customised. Some are of Desert Falcon standard and the rest plain BLK52. As for AESA well lets just see as I did'nt get any confirmation regardin that.
P.S just saw the scans of this month's Air International.
They've fudged up the designations in their article on the PAF and have opened the H2/H4 can again.
They are calling them BVR aams(sigh) where as the BVR programme is called V4 and these two are precision guided munitions.

 

[SABRE]

by the way the f16b60 is the latest version of the f16,do you know if pakistan has been offered an aesa for their f16's ,tot and the latest version of the anraam missile and what would be the actual price of the product?

also on an unrelated matter ,there was a news article posted today on a forum that bangladesh will be acquiring 16 fighter planes from china(they did not mention what type),do you think the jf17 has a chance for this(is the product mature enough?)

Block 52/52+ is the refered to as the latest model while Block 60 is a specific modification for UAE F-16s (like Mirage2000-5 is standard current model & Mirage2000-9 is specific modification for UAE Mirages & Mark2 for Greece) ... however that is debatable. I my self see Block-60E/F as latest modles.

About Bangladesh, well as said by myst this is not BAF forum.

 

[zoolander]

The Pakistanis are not getting any J-10s, they can hardly afford the JF-17. During development the Pakistanis declined using composits to save money on a already cheap plane. At a price of a mere 15 million the pakistanis are relunctant to buy.

 

[pshamim]

The Pakistanis are not getting any J-10s, they can hardly afford the JF-17. During development the Pakistanis declined using composits to save money on a already cheap plane. At a price of a mere 15 million the pakistanis are relunctant to buy.

And what is the source of your post? Please let us know.

 

[SABRE]

The Pakistanis are not getting any J-10s, they can hardly afford the JF-17. During development the Pakistanis declined using composits to save money on a already cheap plane. At a price of a mere 15 million the pakistanis are relunctant to buy.

1st I would repeat Umair's question "what is the source of your post? Please let us know."

2nd, if u r suffering from lack of knowledge abt JF-17, the aircraft's has two primary purposes. (1) to replace aging support & escort fighters like F-7, F-5, F-4, MiG-21 etc, (2) to export it, specialy to 3rd world countries which are prime users of F-7s (e.g: Bangladesh, SriLanka & African countries like Nigeria), these countries can hardly afford F-16s & MiG-29s.

It would be foolish for both China & Pakistan to use composite materials, end up increasing the price & lose the potential coustomers.

However there has been no report on either china or Pakistan rejecting composite materials. I have a feeling u have confused your self on 'Fly By Wire System' with 'Composite Materials.' It was the idea of making JF-17 compeletly 'flyby wire' since the system is expensive and would increase the cost per unit. Which, for above mentioned reasons, would not be a good idea.

Also, individualy, it would be foolish for Pakistan to invest great amount to "Try" & make JF-17 a hightech fighter when it is going to purchase latest models of F-16C/D Block 52. The primary purpose of JF-17 for PAF is not to replace or over take F-16s. Its job is to replace F-7s, A-5s & Mirage-3/5, how ever there has been no compromise on making it a low tech aircraft. It is mainly refered to as Medium Tech aircraft at this moment & PAC-PAF have already said they are going to install 'latest' European Avionics on the JF-17 they are going to produce for them selves & for that they are dealing with countries like Sweden which have shown some interest.

And when it comes to affording, I dont know where people get their information. I wont go into economics which is repidly increasing but if u dnt knw PAF is aquiring F-16s, JF-17s, ERIEYE (Airborne early warning system) at the same time while looking into another platform to over take F-16s as main prime fighters.

 

[adsH]

The Pakistanis are not getting any J-10s, they can hardly afford the JF-17. During development the Pakistanis declined using composits to save money on a already cheap plane. At a price of a mere 15 million the pakistanis are relunctant to buy.

It would be foolish for both China & Pakistan to use composite materials, end up increasing the price & lose the potential coustomers.

As Sabre said Composites is allot more expensive to produce, its fabrication would endup bumping up the price perunit, i doubt its hard i'm sure China/Pakistan may have the capability. You just have to have the right method in place. But i believe Cost wise Aluminum on low cost cheaper AC is more appropriate.

 

[SABRE]

Also not to forget that Chinese concept of JF-17 was to have a cheap MediumTech fighter not an expensive MediumTech fighter, for export. Building JF-17 with composites & making it compeletly fly by wire would have eventualy made it hightech & expensive & than there would have been no point of J-10. Its price would have been unattractive to potential coustomers and they would rather prefered MiG-29 over it.

There would realy have been no point of making two hight tech fighters, one smaller in size than the other. If u realy want composites put them on J-10 which has capability of playing primery role in the airforces like PAF & PLAAF not on JF-17 which would only be used to escort & support aircrafts like J-10 & F-16 when it comes to air combat.

 

[zoolander]

With Pakistan already getting F-16s I could only see them getting JF-17 to replace the aging migs 21 and the other aging antiques they fly. There is no point of getting getting two front line fighters.(The J-10 and F-16.) After all the Pakistani budget is not endless.

 

[webmaster]

Zoolander, Pakistan does not have Mig-21s, PAF has not flown any russian jet to my knowledge. However, Indian Air Force is heavily equiped with Russian aircrafts.

 

[zoolander]

i meant the J-7 or the F-7 or watever the J-7 export name is. The J-7 is intially a mig-21 with numerous mods and chinese avionics.


There also has been rumors that Pakistan is just gonna buy a even furture upgraded j-7

 

[SABRE]

With Pakistan already getting F-16s I could only see them getting JF-17 to replace the aging migs 21 and the other aging antiques they fly. There is no point of getting getting two front line fighters.(The J-10 and F-16.) After all the Pakistani budget is not endless.

Pakistan is looking for another next generartion platform to replace F-16 as prime front line fighter. Its looking for aircraft which is superior to F-16s.
F-16 would just be 2nd in command. But there is no hurry I guess.

i meant the J-7 or the F-7 or watever the J-7 export name is. The J-7 is intially a mig-21 with numerous mods and chinese avionics.


There also has been rumors that Pakistan is just gonna buy a even furture upgraded j-7

Its F-7. PAF has F-7P & F-7PG.

The rumors u have herd are wrong. I havent herd of any such rumor but the Chinese have also dumped the plans of next upgrade model of J-7. So there is going to be no future upgrade of J-7/F-7. On the other hand Pakistan upgrades F-7 by it self with west avionics, so they can still buy current versions & upgrade them but as i said before i havent read any report or so on PAF inducting further F-7s.

 

[lakhani]

Guys, I would like to put one point over here, is that, last sunday, when foreign affairs was telecasted on Geo Tv, the host( Mr Baig) asked Sheikh Rashid about the another fighter plane(other than JF-17), he used the word F-10 and then avoid replying anything further by saying, that pres Musharraf will discuss himself about it, at an appropriate time.

I am not claiming anything over here, I said exactly what I heard.

 

[Scorpius]

how good is the J-10?when it comes to avionics and also when compared to the most advanced versions of the F-16?

 

[BilalK]

With Pakistan already getting F-16s I could only see them getting JF-17 to replace the aging migs 21 and the other aging antiques they fly. There is no point of getting getting two front line fighters.(The J-10 and F-16.) After all the Pakistani budget is not endless.

According to the horse's mouth (the Air Chief Marshal/General of PAF) the PAF has a requirement for another fighter to serve alongside JF-17 and F-16; they will replace the Mirage ROSE-I/II/III by 2020 and F-16A/B MLU by 2030. The PAF wants something that is not American, a diverse fleet would serve best or Pakistan's unstable political climate. Options include the JAS-39 Gripen, more F-16s, and F-10s (J-10); once Western and Chinese defence relations get warmer, China can get Western avionics integrated onto the J-10.

Anyways its a long-term committment, and highly understandable, nothing to get worked up about. And the PAF will not buy more J-7s, that defies the very purpose of acquiring JF-17s and F-16s in the first place; and if it can't afford, then it'll just buy used F-16s - which are obviously a better procurement.

how good is the J-10?when it comes to avionics and also when compared to the most advanced versions of the F-16?

I would say it is the PAF's answer to the IAF Su-30MKI and MRCA (alongside F-16); it is similar in size to the MKI, it has 11 hardpoints as opposed to MKIs', very manuverable (and TVC capable), very big frame (equip a lot of avionics and what not). With China's defence field rapidly advancing and relations with Western Europe warming, prospects of AESA radars and advanced weapon systems is also plausable.

 

[aaaditya]

i have just read an article stating that pakistan is looking 30-40 new fighters and the rafale and the ef2000 as well as gripeen are in consideration,a paf team would be visiting italy in the next couple of months to evaluate the ef2000.
the article was actually about pakistan giving an official rfi to dcn for the design and supply of 3 submarines of a new design ,the rfi is to be submitted by dcn in 6 months time.

 

[webmaster]

aaaditya, where did you read that article? Source of that information?

You've been here long enough to know that you had to post the source of the information along with your claims.

 

[Scorpius]

yep posting the source would be nice.

 

[SABRE]

yes, please post the source & a link (if the source is a website) & make sure it works. I still remember that 'Rafale' rumor spreading, the link never worked & when confirmed by the source, there was no such news.

 

[XEROX]

Just been reading an article on some forum, will post here later, aparantly some PAF guys are going to Italy, watching trials of the EuroFighter taking place

btw, J-10 is based upon the LAVI design which inturn is based on the F-16, the SU-30 is a beast compared to the f-16/J-10

 

[BilalK]

btw, J-10 is based upon the LAVI design which inturn is based on the F-16, the SU-30 is a beast compared to the f-16/J-10

I wouldn't use that as a pretext for putting J-10 below Su-30; they're about the same size (just look at the J-10 & Su-30 images on Sinodefence). And the J-10 can too be equipped with TVC, and it has more hardpoints than the Su-30. I agree on the notion that the Su-30 is far more seasoned and perhaps more reliable; and a better prospect than J-10. However I believe the J-10 has loads of potential, and realistically it is the PAF's next MRCA with F-16s.