Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

the eurofighter costs around 75million dollars per aircraft add to that the cost of the spares,training etc,besides pakistan has no experience in operating a eads aircraft,it will be as much of a problem for them to operate the ef2000 as it would be for a country operating the russian migs to suddenly change to the f-18 or the f-16.

there are several ways of countering awacs ,one of them is a ground based awacs jammer, a system has been developed by russia ,maybe china has acquired it and reverse engineered it

Aaaditya,

1. If you look carefully i posted "3 billion+" , and i did mention that the price would increase gradually eg:weaponry

2. You make it seem as if Pakistan will have the greatest conquest trying to grasp a hold and taking out the full abilities of the EF-2000 , considering our pilots will operate them in the RSAF in the up-coming future. therefore, Pakistan will be atleast 25% familiar with its technologies and capabilities. Basically what i am trying to say is that Pakistan isnt all that about the Euro-fighter

 

[adsH]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

The principle problem is that the Saudi purchase blows out the waiting period. The UK has pulled it off with the Saudis due to the sheer volume of units being bought. That means that someone else in the delivery chain (if not the UK itself) has to stall on getting their own units delivered at the prev expected rate.

The issue is, which EU buyers are willing to forego their own delivery schedules to fast track an external buyers requirement. ie, eg Pakistan.

the issue is delivery, availability and willingness on existing tracked buyers to go further down the queue.

the only way that I can see this being successful is if pakistan manages to secure volume from the saudis as an interim delivery process. the saudis would have to incraese their initial buy, or be willing to reduce their own committment to poss share units with pakistan. either way, an increase in saudi units also affects the existing and expected delivery schedule for current buyers.

I did say PAF would be the key driver in the purchase , they are in a way. GF the way i see it is that PAF's is probably putting the EF's in its long term purchases, so it may be willing to wait a long time for the Fighters
I still believe they would go through the F-16 purchase they would have to be idiots to leave this deal hanging.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

there are several ways of countering awacs ,one of them is a ground based awacs jammer, a system has been developed by russia ,maybe china has acquired it and reverse engineered it.

well, if thats the case, then they haven't done basic homework on how AWACs work. I can't believe that the Russians would be that stupid in wasting money on a ground based jammer.

Quite frankly, it's a moronic idea. You might as well paint a big red bullseye on the facility.

 

[pshamim]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

I did say PAF would be the key driver in the purchase , they are in a way. GF the way i see it is that PAF's is probably putting the EF's in its long term purchases, so it may be willing to wait a long time for the Fighters
I still believe they would go through the F-16 purchase they would have to be idiots to leave this deal hanging.

PAF Pilots have been flying the Tornadoes since they joined RSAF. I personally know two PAF pilots who are Tornadoes flying instructors. I am sure there are several more. What that proves is that PAF will have no problem flying British platforms should Pakistan goes that way. Though it seems doubtful at the moment. Well! things can change in the future.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

PAF Pilots have been flying the Tornadoes since they joined RSAF. I personally know two PAF pilots who are Tornadoes flying instructors. I am sure there are several more. What that proves is that PAF will have no problem flying British platforms should Pakistan goes that way. Though it seems doubtful at the moment. Well! things can change in the future.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out. Personally,IMHO, unless the UK decides to extend its own implementation dates, I can't see anyone else forgoing their buy ups or position in the queue.

It makes it doubly interesting though as any further blow outs to JSF could end up seeing customer leakage to Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen. Even Boeing could end up a winner as it means that derivatives of the F-15K (not F-15Si as that won't be available for others to buy) could be on the cards.

It also makes a SuperHornet offer possible to some NATO countries.

The wild card will be Japan. They're a strong candidate for JSF even though they're not in the queue, and they are also one of the 3 countries regularly mentioned in US circles as being a potential F-22 user. I imagine that refurbed F-15J's would be in demand from some countries

as for PAF pilots, anyone doubting their competency is really taking a blinkered look. They have continually been highly regarded.

 

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

PAF Pilots have been flying the Tornadoes since they joined RSAF. I personally know two PAF pilots who are Tornadoes flying instructors. I am sure there are several more. What that proves is that PAF will have no problem flying British platforms should Pakistan goes that way. Though it seems doubtful at the moment. Well! things can change in the future.

Now, I remember reading somewhere that PAF pilots are not very satisfied with its capabilities. Firstly i'd like to begin with the Cock-pit view which is extremely tight, and therefore you are not able to see in a full 180+ degree's. the other reason to why the PAF does not appreciate the Tornado is that it is very un-reliable in Within-Visual-Range Combat otherwise known aas WVR combat. Although its BVR and bombing runs are well done, the lack of ability in WVR combat makes it really difficult for Pakistan to be able to purchase it as Air Marshal Kaleem Sadat is completely against it.

The third reason is that the Swing-wings that of similar to the F-14 tomcat make it a pricey aircraft to maintain (these are the words of Sabre by the way)

 

[adsH]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

PAF Pilots have been flying the Tornadoes since they joined RSAF. I personally know two PAF pilots who are Tornadoes flying instructors. I am sure there are several more. What that proves is that PAF will have no problem flying British platforms should Pakistan goes that way. Though it seems doubtful at the moment. Well! things can change in the future.

I mentioned that earlier too, One of my friend's father back in Riyadh was attached with the RSAF he was an Active PAF Pilot (He quiet highly regarded in PAF he was in the 70's conflict). But that was ages ago about 10 year I think, they used to have three years rotating contract with RSAF.

 

[BilalK]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Correct me if I'm wrong; but in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, and even in the 1980s a fair number of PAF officers have been sent on foreign exchange and/or deputation to air forces around the world. Definately including U.S, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Zimbabwe, Germany, U.K, and possibly in Turkey. Presently, despite the lack of up-to-date equipment, what is to stop PAF from sending pilots to the above countries on foreign exchange or deputation?

For that reason, I believe PAF pilots in small numbers are in U.S, Saudi Arabia, UAE and possibly two or three other countries flying a variety of fighter planes. When the PAF would recall these pilots, those pilots and engineers would be a very important asset to use when the PAF decides to induct a new fighter. The experience gained would allow the PAF to decide the best option for its requirements.

The doctorines, methods, etc learned by the small number of PAF officers would also allow the PAF to adapt to those same doctorines if it ever were to adapt them into its own system. I do not think a 15-year gap between doctorine change, as well as the growing threat of IAF would be affordable to the PAF; thus the importance of sending officers abroad is to keep up-to-date. If you keep up-to-date, you would have an extremely better idea in how to adapt new technology and modify your doctorines; face it, BVR, AWACS, long-range SAMs, etc are all new things to PAF.

For a professional air force of the size of PAF, I cannot believe that it would just sit and do nothing for 15 years; and then hope to be up-to-date so late and so quickly. Especially under the aura of a formidable enemy who is already ahead in so many fields; and continues to grow and advance.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

well, if thats the case, then they haven't done basic homework on how AWACs work. I can't believe that the Russians would be that stupid in wasting money on a ground based jammer.

Quite frankly, it's a moronic idea. You might as well paint a big red bullseye on the facility.

it is portable (very much like a modern radar ),and it weighs very less,there was a very brief article and picture of this system in a janes idr magazine of 4/1998 i will try to find it out and post the article.

 

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Guy ive got a quesion for you. Lets suppose you are incharge and can control where exactly a squadron should be based. Now you have to base a F-16 squadron somewhere in Pakistan where would it be? I would say Masroor Air Base and it should replace the current F-7 squadron there. The Falcons there can provide air cover to the Erieyes,Mirages,Surface ships. To the Erieyes they could provide Air superiority and same with the Mirages and since we dont have a dedicated Air defence ship, they can also help them out. In the future the JF-17 would also be coming in our own command and then i think they should be based East and West of Pakistan and not to mention Peshawar, since they are in need of a modern fighter.

 

[umair]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Guy ive got a quesion for you. Lets suppose you are incharge and can control where exactly a squadron should be based. Now you have to base a F-16 squadron somewhere in Pakistan where would it be? I would say Masroor Air Base and it should replace the current F-7 squadron there. The Falcons there can provide air cover to the Erieyes,Mirages,Surface ships. To the Erieyes they could provide Air superiority and same with the Mirages and since we dont have a dedicated Air defence ship, they can also help them out. In the future the JF-17 would also be coming in our own command and then i think they should be based East and West of Pakistan and not to mention Peshawar, since they are in need of a modern fighter.

Sorry Elite, but according to what I know, the first replacements will be at Kamra not Masroor. It may turn out to be somewhere else even.

 

[dronzer]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

considering economic status of pakistan ef-2000 will be out of question ,you can see the evidense -pak extended f-16 purchase .I am not saying that pak cannot buy ef-2000.,but they wont get it in near future.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

considering economic status of pakistan ef-2000 will be out of question

Dronzer one off topic question for you...Do u know Pakistani economic conditions???? I am guessing u dont. May be you should go through UN & World Bank's reports on macro economics of Pakistan.

A Piece of Trivia ... Did you know Pakistan's GDP growth has crossed passed to that of India about 4 times in the Past & according to world bank in 2008 if Pakistan retains macro economic performance similar to that of 2004 its GDP will cross 8% & may be even cross India's GDP growth rate by 2009 for the 5th time in history? & Did you know that KSE has crossed the record point of 10,000 thrice in just 200 years while ISE & LSE have been breaking their respective records in the same period? So dont talk economics if you dont know any thing abt Pakistani economics. In past five years I have seen bankrupt people becoming million yrs & new business coming to existance. India is not the only chicken that can lay eggs.

Finaly did you know that Pakistan's plans are to buy 77 new F-16 C/D Block 52 & ONLY 11 refurbished F-16s A/B Block 15? In addition Pakistan plans to build & purchase 150 JF-17s (150 units officialy confirmed 3 days ago) & yet still PAF says there is room for more & PAF's AVM clearly said that another superior (next gen) fighters are available from European countries & decision on them will be made after practical evaluation & their purchase most probably wont effect F-16 & JF-17 purchase. Besides that Pakistan is purchasing 7 SAAB-2000 ERIEYEs.

you can see the evidense -pak extended f-16 purchase

Pakistan extended the F-16 purchase to attend to the Earth Quake victoms. Were you expecting us to buy weapons when our people wer dying. We buy weapons to protect people so they can live. If people dont live their is no point defending the country & certainly no point buying weapons & aircrafts & we had to wait for int. community's funds to arrive for victoms, till than we had to spend money from other departments in which Defence Ministry included. It was for this that the F-16 deal was haulted. The Pakistani foregin spokesman had already said why the deal was extended on BBC, may be you are not a person who follows current affairs & make up things by him self & ignores the reality. Start following internation news buddy.

I am not saying that pak cannot buy ef-2000.,but they wont get it in near future.

Well what a shocker ! Like if India goes for the MiG-29/35 or Mirage2000 or F-18, they will get it the next day of the order. By my information 2010-11 is the year PAF plans to induct the next gen fighter (be it EF-2000 or next modle Gripens). Now I dont knw wheather 5-6 years is near future for you are further future.

 

[ajaybhutani]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Dronzer one off topic question for you...Do u know Pakistani economic conditions???? I am guessing u dont. May be you should go through UN & World Bank's reports on macro economics of Pakistan.

can u please shed some light on the same for all of us.. ?

A Piece of Trivia ... Did you know Pakistan's GDP growth has crossed passed to that of India about 4 times in the Past

i wouldnt have wanted a india paksitan comparison here.. but since u have started .. firstly how past(how many years ) are u talking about .. and secondly what about the rest of the past except those 4 times.. india was growing faster rite ??

& according to world bank in 2008 if Pakistan retains macro economic performance similar to that of 2004 its GDP will cross 8% & may be even cross India's GDP growth rate by 2009 for the 5th time in history?

firstly it says.. may.. and again there are ifs all over the place..
secnodly i wouldnt like to do such a comparison or even look at such comparisons due to difference in the size of the two economies.. unless u are talking about some 2-4% more growth rate for 2-3 decades.( which might make it comparable to india )..

& Did you know that KSE has crossed the record point of 10,000 thrice in just 200 years while ISE & LSE have been breaking their respective records in the same period? So dont talk economics if you dont know any thing abt Pakistani economics. In past five years I have seen bankrupt people becoming million yrs & new business coming to existance. India is not the only chicken that can lay eggs.

u are definitely quite obsessed with india.. get over it before it starts hurting u.

Finaly did you know that Pakistan's plans are to buy 77 new F-16 C/D Block 52 & ONLY 11 refurbished F-16s A/B Block 15? In addition Pakistan plans to build & purchase 150 JF-17s (150 units officialy confirmed 3 days ago) & yet still PAF says there is room for more & PAF's AVM clearly said that another superior (next gen) fighters are available from European countries & decision on them will be made after practical evaluation & their purchase most probably wont effect F-16 & JF-17 purchase. Besides that Pakistan is purchasing 7 SAAB-2000 ERIEYEs.

thats what makes ur whole view all the more amazing.. if they have to start induction of new plane by 2011 then by then they should have already inducted all F16's .. i.e. an average of 13 planes a year.. i.e. 650 mn( if u manage to get them at 50mn a peice..
add to it the JF17 induction.. which i'll take at 15 a year.. at 15 mn a peice.. ( but add to it the cost of weapons.. spares.. etc etc.. making it 30 mn a peice at least).
giving another 450 mn a year..
that comes to 1.1 B $ on just planes..
look at paksitans current military budget..( whose % wrt GDP already is well above iinternational averages..)
3 B$. or max 4 adding all that u get from external sources..even with 8% growth i wouldnt assume more than 8 % growth in paksitans military budget every year.. for more will hurt the economy.. a large portion of it maybe 2/3rd will go in salaries fuel costs maintenance of already existing stuff.. and then even the navy and army are in need of funds of development.. do u still think that paksitan can take out 1.1 B $ for buying planes..

Pakistan extended the F-16 purchase to attend to the Earth Quake victoms. Were you expecting us to buy weapons when our people wer dying. We buy weapons to protect people so they can live. If people dont live their is no point defending the country & certainly no point buying weapons & aircrafts & we had to wait for int. community's funds to arrive for victoms, till than we had to spend money from other departments in which Defence Ministry included. It was for this that the F-16 deal was haulted. The Pakistani foregin spokesman had already said why the deal was extended on BBC, may be you are not a person who follows current affairs & make up things by him self & ignores the reality. Start following internation news buddy.

that has actually shown the biggest weakness of pakistani economy.. they had to delay the defence purchases because there was a calamity.. india had a tsunami killing many.... strong economies dont shake like this in calamities.

Well what a shocker ! Like if India goes for the MiG-29/35 or Mirage2000 or F-18, they will get it the next day of the order. By my information 2010-11 is the year PAF plans to induct the next gen fighter (be it EF-2000 or next modle Gripens). Now I dont knw wheather 5-6 years is near future for you are further future.

first please explain to me how pakistan will be in a position economically to purchase another series of airplanes.. and that too with such a high price tag.. ?

 

[pshamim]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Guys,
Let this be a defence oriented forum where we can learn and talk about what we learn.

Unfortunately, what we have been witnessing is that nothing has changed. Boasting and big talk are still the norms as they were 20 years ago. Keep your nationalism, boasting, and humiliating in check and learn to learn. What a waste of time!

It appears that some of you specialize more in pissing and getting pissed all the time. We need to see atleast a semblance of maturity on both side of the border.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

This is a first and final warning re the standard of posts for this item.​

1) Stay on Topic

2) Don't bring in irrelevant issues

3) Stay civil to each other

4) Let the mods do the modding. Some of you who criticise others for their quality of content would be well served by examining your own first.

Any future responses that don't follow the already established etiquette of what is required in here will see their posts deleted.

pshamim tried to give you all a hint - it would be wise to pay attention to his words.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Nothing technical just govt talk but what the hack.


​

Govt will provide all resources to PAF, says Shaukat Aziz​

Daily Times
Mon, 9 Jan 2006, 06:46
​

ISLAMABAD: The government will provide all necessary resources to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) as it has a crucial role to play in securing the country’s air space and guarding the aerial frontiers, said Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz on Saturday.

Talking to Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, the chief of air staff, at the Prime Minister’s House, Shaukat discussed matters pertaining to further strengthening of the Pakistan Air Force. He said that the government was committed to strengthening the professional capabilities of the armed forces of the country. “The PAF has a crucial role to play in securing the air space and guarding our aerial frontiers. The government will provide all necessary resources to the PAF in this regard,†he added.

The PAF development and modernisation programme was also discussed during the meeting. The prime minister said that the JF-17 project was moving ahead satisfactorily. “Acquisition of modern technology and expertise in its use will provide additional strength to air power. The government is committed to making the PAF impregnable,†he said.

Source: DT News
Link: http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_004618.php

 

[mysterious]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Does anyone have information regarding the High Mark 2005 exercise conducted by the PAF? Its almost as if all news of the exercise was muted around the time that it was to be conducted (early September). Anyone with access to pictures, conclusions and other deliberations? Feel free to share!

 

[umair]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Remember the October quake mysterious. The exercises were inturrepted and my guess is were cancelled.

 

[srirangan]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

They weren't cancelled. However pics haven't been released anywhere on the internet.