Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

has pakistan selected the third 4th gen fighter?which one is it?has the price negotiations been completed?operational doctrine prepared?has the order been placed?
price negotiations in most case takes quite some time,and then the order has to be placed ,most current 4th gen aircrafts (except for rafale and j10) are currently having their order books full,then after aquiring the aircrafts,training and preparation of the operational doctrine alone take another year,the 3 to 4 year time period is highly unlikely,also the quake hit pakistan at a very wrong time,the economy will show the adverse impact of the quake next year.so if pakistan goes for a third 4th gen fighter in the next 3to 4 years it will put some preasure on the economy.
i believe the best option for pakistan would be to go for j10.the next will be gripen.(i believe gripen costs about 35million dollars per aircraft so a 60 aircraft order will cost around 2.1 billion dollars plus the weapons and the cost of tot)also pakistan has neither the operational experience nor the maintainence facilities for the swedish aircraft it will put a lot of preasure on them(additional expenditure),the mirage2000-5 costs 55-60 million dollars per aircraft and the rafale 60-65+million dollars and the ef2000 around 70million dollars.
so interesting times in pakistan.

How did you come to the conclusion that the Pak eco will show adverse effect due to the earth quake??
The region that was hit by the earth quake has little or no barring on the Pak eco. reason being that all/most of the economic centers both agricultural +industrial are south of the quake zone. So in other words Pak economy has had very minimal effect, which can be clearly be seen in the stock market, which witnesed as increase even on the day of the quake.
World bank has just recenly published a report stating exactly wt i have written above. So Pak eco. inspite of the earth quake is stong and healthy and will continue on its marry ways.
Infact when the reconstruction phase kicks in it is bound to grow even further. Even if worst comes worst and Pak is felt to fend for its self, it still should be able to take the burden on its own, as 2-3 billion dollars a year over a period of 5 years is not that big a deal.

Pak will induct j-10 in a few years no question about it. At the moment firstly the platfrom is not mature +the PLAAF is looking to fill its ranks first before exporting the ac.
You will be surprised as to how Pak manages its finances for the 4th gen. ac?

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

How did you come to the conclusion that the Pak eco will show adverse effect due to the earth quake??
The region that was hit by the earth quake has little or no barring on the Pak eco. reason being that all/most of the economic centers both agricultural +industrial are south of the quake zone. So in other words Pak economy has had very minimal effect, which can be clearly be seen in the stock market, which witnesed as increase even on the day of the quake.
World bank has just recenly published a report stating exactly wt i have written above. So Pak eco. inspite of the earth quake is stong and healthy and will continue on its marry ways.
Infact when the reconstruction phase kicks in it is bound to grow even further. Even if worst comes worst and Pak is felt to fend for its self, it still should be able to take the burden on its own, as 2-3 billion dollars a year over a period of 5 years is not that big a deal.

Pak will induct j-10 in a few years no question about it. At the moment firstly the platfrom is not mature +the PLAAF is looking to fill its ranks first before exporting the ac.
You will be surprised as to how Pak manages its finances for the 4th gen. ac?

every country's economy is effected by natural disasters,they have to redevelop the infrastructure(build roads ,repair bridges,schools etc)the money has to come from national budget.according to bbc the human loss due to the quake is 78000 dead,and property loss worth atleast 5 billion dollars(the current estimates),the donations from un have amounted to 500million dollars(more may come),however pakistan will have to spend most of the costs from its budget,also winter has just started,now pakistan's problems realy start,because many more people will die due to cold since houses have been destroyed(they have to be provided with temporary accomodation,food and medical facilities),economy does not mean that a particular region has to contribute towards it.
pakistan can choose to ignore the development activities in the north ,but then that will alienate the people which is even bigger problem than a falling economy.
if pakistani economy was not to be affected then why did they delay the acquisition of f-16's.because right now it is too early to make an estimates as to the loss that the country might have suffered due to the earthquake (both economic and human losses),even the 5 billion dollar figure is a conservative figure and can be higher(particularly with the winter coming in).

 

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

the deal was going to cost Pakistan as much as $4 billion

Wow, that seems a bit TOO much! and yet i am proud of this deal!

Pakistan was expected to buy 75 F-16s from the US. Of these, 50 were new F-16C/D Falcon while 25 were old but upgraded versions of the aircraft. The deal included upgrading of the 30 F-16s Pakistan received in the 1980s. In July, the US had agreed to deliver at least two F-16s by November.

God, i love to hear that!:lol3

He said the Bush administration had assured Pakistan that the delay would not affect the deal and “we would be able to revive it when we are ready.”

Phew....i wanted to hear something like this, i mean we have waited so long now, and these planes are important to us. It is fine that we have delayed it but good thing the delay would not affect the deal. On top of that, without them we will not be able to ensure "safe skies". I remember a member saying that Masroor Air force Base was lacking air superiority, and without this capability the fighters capable of Anti-Ship combat can fall right out of the skies with no one to succesfully watch their back.(BTW, this member is very right on my watch)

But Pakistan’s decision to delay the deal will have a negative impact on Lockheed Martin, the company that produces the F-16s, which already faces major job cuts. Employment on the company’s F-16 production line, which exceeded 5,500 two years ago, is now close to 4,000.

Soon after Pakistan announced its decision, Lockheed spokesman Joe Stout said the company “needs a new F-16 order this year to preclude disruptions in the F-16 production line.”

Uh oh, i need an answer to the following question!

With the approval of Kaleem Saddat etc., Why does Lockheed not start the production line of our F-16's, as they know we are gonna purchase? them one day or another.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Uh oh, i need an answer to the following question!

With the approval of Kaleem Saddat etc., Why does Lockheed not start the production line of our F-16's, as they know we are gonna purchase? them one day or another.

1. Kaleem Sadat can not approave the deal. The deal has to be approaved by the government. Armed forces only evaluate the products & state what they require to Defence Ministry which later gets the deal approaved by the Prime Minister & President.

2. Lockheed-Martin needs money for production. Since Pakistan has not payed & is not paying the initial advance payment lockheed-martin can not start production. You cant start to produce any thing for free.

3. Lockheed-Martin will be, infact is, facing uncertainity to when Pakistan will give orders & advance payment for production. Suppose if they "do" start to produce F-16s to pre-order periods & later Pakistan decides to delay even further or may be even drop out of the deal than Lockheed-Martin will be facing major setback & loss.


LH-M is not a country & in that case not an allie of any country. They dont do favors. They are a major defence equipement production company & they are here for business & to do business they need orders & money. Since they cant get them at the moment they can not start the production. Hope u get it.

every country's economy is effected by natural disasters,they have to redevelop the infrastructure(build roads ,repair bridges,schools etc)the money has to come from national budget.according to bbc the human loss due to the quake is 78000 dead,and property loss worth atleast 5 billion dollars(the current estimates),the donations from un have amounted to 500million dollars(more may come),however pakistan will have to spend most of the costs from its budget,also winter has just started,now pakistan's problems realy start,because many more people will die due to cold since houses have been destroyed(they have to be provided with temporary accomodation,food and medical facilities),economy does not mean that a particular region has to contribute towards it.

aaaditya this is not a finance & economy thread but let me give u a small info which u may not have (which should prove how ignorent India is towards Kashmir affairs). AJ&K is autonomus region & has operated separate finance ministry from that of the centre since 1955. It has its own President & Prime Minister. The only thing that connects it to Pakistan is that it is federal administered. All federal administered areas do not contribute their finance to rest of the country & nor do the participate in national assembly but they do represent them selves in the senet (which is why the are known as federal administered). In simple terms their monetary system is subjected to the State Bank of Pakistan while their Fiscal system is independent. They even had their own Stock Exchange buliding (now for sure destroyed) which offered shares both FATA based companies aswell as Pakistan based companies but they always had have a very low participation. Because of this reason the main Karachi Stock Exchange & its sisters Lahore Stock Exchange & Islamabad/Rawalpindi Stock Exchange did not suffer any loss. The stock infact gained & closed with more points day after the Earth Quake. The govt preducted GDP growth of 7% for this year & its running 6.8% at this moment (calculated by U.N/World Bank) with exchanges gaining more points.

The only reason Pakistan has decided to delay the F-16 purchase is that the centre (unlike the FATA) is subjected morely aswell as financialy towards FATA ppl's well being. But the good thing is that government doesn have to do every thing. There is enough public support to help these people out. Apart from Tax to govt ppl of Pakistan & Muslim world pay Islamic tax called Zakat on monthly basis. Zakat is divereted towards people most in need no matter where they are & almost all Muslim nations have decided to divert most part of their Zakat to Pakistan quake victoms.

So aaadity, take an advice. Dont swim in the waters you dont know.

Considering this I think Pakistani government should be back to the F-16 deal with few months (6 to 8 months) but when Pakistan returns to the defence purchases it not only has to consider fighter jets but also heavy lift military halicopters.

I hope no other ecomomic discussion followes.

 

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

1. Kaleem Sadat can not approave the deal. The deal has to be approaved by the government. Armed forces only evaluate the products & state what they require to Defence Ministry which later gets the deal approaved by the Prime Minister & President.

2. Lockheed-Martin needs money for production. Since Pakistan has not payed & is not paying the initial advance payment lockheed-martin can not start production. You cant start to produce any thing for free.

3. Lockheed-Martin will be, infact is, facing uncertainity to when Pakistan will give orders & advance payment for production. Suppose if they "do" start to produce F-16s to pre-order periods & later Pakistan decides to delay even further or may be even drop out of the deal than Lockheed-Martin will be facing major setback & loss.


LH-M is not a country & in that case not an allie of any country. They dont do favors. They are a major defence equipement production company & they are here for business & to do business they need orders & money. Since they cant get them at the moment they can not start the production. Hope u get it.



aaaditya this is not a finance & economy thread but let me give u a small info which u may not have (which should prove how ignorent India is towards Kashmir affairs). AJ&K is autonomus region & has operated separate finance ministry from that of the centre since 1955. It has its own President & Prime Minister. The only thing that connects it to Pakistan is that it is federal administered. All federal administered areas do not contribute their finance to rest of the country & nor do the participate in national assembly but they do represent them selves in the senet (which is why the are known as federal administered). In simple terms their monetary system is subjected to the State Bank of Pakistan while their Fiscal system is independent. They even had their own Stock Exchange buliding (now for sure destroyed) which offered shares both FATA based companies aswell as Pakistan based companies but they always had have a very low participation. Because of this reason the main Karachi Stock Exchange & its sisters Lahore Stock Exchange & Islamabad/Rawalpindi Stock Exchange did not suffer any loss. The stock infact gained & closed with more points day after the Earth Quake. The govt preducted GDP growth of 7% for this year & its running 6.8% at this moment (calculated by U.N/World Bank) with exchanges gaining more points.

The only reason Pakistan has decided to delay the F-16 purchase is that the centre (unlike the FATA) is subjected morely aswell as financialy towards FATA ppl's well being. But the good thing is that government doesn have to do every thing. There is enough public support to help these people out. Apart from Tax to govt ppl of Pakistan & Muslim world pay Islamic tax called Zakat on monthly basis. Zakat is divereted towards people most in need no matter where they are & almost all Muslim nations have decided to divert most part of their Zakat to Pakistan quake victoms.

Considering this I think Pakistani government should be back to the F-16 deal with few months (6 to 8 months) but when Pakistan returns to the defence purchases it not only has to consider fighter jets but also heavy lift military halicopters.

I hope no other ecomomic discussion followes.

Thanx buddy for the reply.(onmy behalf)

 

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

aaaditya this is not a finance & economy thread but let me give u a small info which u may not have (which should prove how ignorent India is towards Kashmir affairs). AJ&K is autonomus region & has operated separate finance ministry from that of the centre since 1955. It has its own President & Prime Minister. The only thing that connects it to Pakistan is that it is federal administered. All federal administered areas do not contribute their finance to rest of the country & nor do the participate in national assembly but they do represent them selves in the senet (which is why the are known as federal administered). In simple terms their monetary system is subjected to the State Bank of Pakistan while their Fiscal system is independent. They even had their own Stock Exchange buliding (now for sure destroyed) which offered shares both FATA based companies aswell as Pakistan based companies but they always had have a very low participation. Because of this reason the main Karachi Stock Exchange & its sisters Lahore Stock Exchange & Islamabad/Rawalpindi Stock Exchange did not suffer any loss. The stock infact gained & closed with more points day after the Earth Quake. The govt preducted GDP growth of 7% for this year & its running 6.8% at this moment (calculated by U.N/World Bank) with exchanges gaining more points.

The only reason Pakistan has decided to delay the F-16 purchase is that the centre (unlike the FATA) is subjected morely aswell as financialy towards FATA ppl's well being. But the good thing is that government doesn have to do every thing. There is enough public support to help these people out. Apart from Tax to govt ppl of Pakistan & Muslim world pay Islamic tax called Zakat on monthly basis. Zakat is divereted towards people most in need no matter where they are & almost all Muslim nations have decided to divert most part of their Zakat to Pakistan quake victoms.

Considering this I think Pakistani government should be back to the F-16 deal with few months (6 to 8 months) but when Pakistan returns to the defence purchases it not only has to consider fighter jets but also heavy lift military halicopters.

I hope no other ecomomic discussion followes.

Thanx buddy for the reply .(on my behalf)

 

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

every country's economy is effected by natural disasters,they have to redevelop the infrastructure(build roads ,repair bridges,schools etc)the money has to come from national budget.according to bbc the human loss due to the quake is 78000 dead,and property loss worth atleast 5 billion dollars(the current estimates),the donations from un have amounted to 500million dollars(more may come),however pakistan will have to spend most of the costs from its budget,also winter has just started,now pakistan's problems realy start,because many more people will die due to cold since houses have been destroyed(they have to be provided with temporary accomodation,food and medical facilities),economy does not mean that a particular region has to contribute towards it.
pakistan can choose to ignore the development activities in the north ,but then that will alienate the people which is even bigger problem than a falling economy.
if pakistani economy was not to be affected then why did they delay the acquisition of f-16's.because right now it is too early to make an estimates as to the loss that the country might have suffered due to the earthquake (both economic and human losses),even the 5 billion dollar figure is a conservative figure and can be higher(particularly with the winter coming in).

aaditya ur itching for trouble. I hope the mod is taking notice and does somthing about u.

What is it that you know about Pakistan, do you have any first hand info about any thing on Pakistan, all ur info is based on hear say, secondhand and in some cases third hand info.
When you talk of death and distruction in Pakistan i feel a sence of "joy" in ur writing, which is sad
Any ways wait for a while and all ur questions will be ansered

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

aaditya ur itching for trouble. I hope the mod is taking notice and does somthing about u.

What is it that you know about Pakistan, do you have any first hand info about any thing on Pakistan, all ur info is based on hear say, secondhand and in some cases third hand info.
When you talk of death and distruction in Pakistan i feel a sence of "joy" in ur writing, which is sad
Any ways wait for a while and all ur questions will be ansered

iam in no way happy about death and destruction in pakistan because the same death and destruction happend in india too(and has been happening for several years now).iam just interested in how pakistan manages finances for capital acquisitions . and what have they selected as their fourth generation fighter.as far as what you feel about someone you dont even know i dont care.

 

[lakhani]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

iam in no way happy about death and destruction in pakistan because the same death and destruction happend in india too(and has been happening for several years now).iam just interested in how pakistan manages finances for capital acquisitions . and what have they selected as their fourth generation fighter.as far as what you feel about someone you dont even know i dont care.

I hope you are not happy, but you seems to be. By the the destruction in your part is very minor in front of pakistans.
THere will be no effect GDP, infact it is beleive that pakistans export will grow further, Pakistani government has asked the eu union to cut a duty(tax, I dont know its name) which app 20 to 25% on account of devastating earth quake(as UN claims bigger than tsunami), eu cut this duty to srilanka on account of tsunami.
Pakistan is in negotiations with the union and they are considering it.
I heard "adviser to PM" saying that if this duty is cut then pakistan will double its exports in next two years easily. means more tax for government of pakistan and more $$$.

In addition to this U.S is considering free trade with pakistan, so that pakistan could not feel the presure and more $$$.

International countries has so far promised pakistan of 1.4 bn dollors and 500mn dollors which UN plans(which I beleive is other than 1.4) + what international aid organizations have collected from pakistani and other comunities abroad(like islamic relief,redcross etc , whether these organisation will hand it over to pakistan or UN, that I dont know but this amount from all big organisations are estimated at 400mn dollors) + 31.5 mn dollors fromm saudi buisness comunity + local aid which already stands at 150mn dollors but will definetely be 3 to 4 times than this as most of the organizations has not handed the money to presidents relief fund( they plans to work on them own) + pakistani government has called for a meeting of international countries under her supervision and hopes for more pledges. + the goods collected from locals which is very high, the only thing short is tents and bit blankets. tents are not in the market so that people could buy for them.

In this way their will be no problem to collect 5 bn dollors, and pakistan will easily save money for F-16s, the delay is only bcz to create money immidiately and there will be no problem after few months bcz above money will start coming in.

I believe the third fighters total qauntity is either 32 or 40( please dont take this no. seriously, this is only my guess, after looking at history of deals and requirements.)

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Pay Attention Everyone!

Numerous times we have requested everyone to stay on topic. This thread is NOT about the economic health of Pakistan or a comparitive economic health assessment of India.

The next poster who strays from the topic will see the thread closed until further notice and earn themselves a few days posting suspension.

Stay focussed if you don't want to see any of the above happening​

 

[P.A.F]

Pakistan should hit F-16s deal now: PAF Chief

http://www.geo.tv/main_files/pakistan.aspx?id=95113

Pakistan should hit F-16s deal now: PAF Chiefhttp://geo.tv/audio/

DUBAI: Pakistan Air Force Air Chief Martial Kalim Saadat has said Pakistan should purchase F-16s plane now otherwise it would get ten years late.

Talking to Geo TV Correspondent Fawad Khurshid here at Dubai Air Show on Sunday, he said it is considered Pakistan would have to pay $6.5 billion next day of finalization of the F-16s deal and the deal is not hit, the same amount would be available for quake relief.

Kalim Saadat said it had taken ten to twelve years to bring F-16s deal at the present situation and if the whole process was canceled, Pakistan would have to start afresh in future.

Pakistan is to decide whether to hit the deal for purchasing F-16s or not, he said and adding that if F-16s have to be purchased in future, then current situation is the best time for it.

______________________________________________________________

I agree. F-16's now or never. it's not as if where paying for it all in one day.​

​

​

 

[Hussain]

Re: Pakistan should hit F-16s deal now: PAF Chief

Pakistan should try to get hold of some second hand F16's and upgrade them instead of waiting for planes that will become outdated as soon as they arrive. Furthermore the F16's are too expensive. Pakistan is better off purchasing Rafael's from France for the front line fighter role and purchasing as many as possible, old Mirage 3 /5 and F1's . Pakistan needs to replace the F7P and A5c's as soon as possible.

Pakistan can therefore be in as strong position to further develop, enhance, induct and export the FC1 at leasurely pace. The FC1 can form the long term backbone of the airforce without compromising its effectiveness.

 

[BilalK]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Pakistan should try to get hold of some second hand F16's and upgrade them instead of waiting for planes that will become outdated as soon as they arrive

Outdated? In what context? In a context where majority of the aircraft flying are outdated MiG-21s, Jaguars, MiG-23/27s, and less advanced Mirage 2000 and MiG-29s? No....the F-16s, will not be outdated in South Asia, and that is what the PAF is concerned about. Even the F-16 Block-52 is better than what the PAF has right now, and what the PAF will get in the near future (JF-17), to the PAF, it isn't outdated at all...but in fact quite advanced.

Perhaps the weapon systems is what we should be interested in. I doubt the PAF would just go ahead and buy those F-16s without securing some sort of BVR and adequate WVR system, I think the PAF's seniors are smarter than that. Why spend 3bn USD on 80 toothless jets, when you can spend that amount on less amount of aircraft, but very sharp teeth? There has to be a good reason, its all faith friend, have more faith in those who are qualified to make these big decisions.

 

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Pakistan should hit F-16s deal now: PAF Chief

Pakistan should try to get hold of some second hand F16's and upgrade them instead of waiting for planes that will become outdated as soon as they arrive. Furthermore the F16's are too expensive. Pakistan is better off purchasing Rafael's from France for the front line fighter role and purchasing as many as possible, old Mirage 3 /5 and F1's . Pakistan needs to replace the F7P and A5c's as soon as possible.

Pakistan can therefore be in as strong position to further develop, enhance, induct and export the FC1 at leasurely pace. The FC1 can form the long term backbone of the airforce without compromising its effectiveness.

Do you know that for the JSF compitition the performance envelop for all the participating ac was set as the equalent of f-16 block 15, ie f-16 was the measure and the f-35 jsf's performance envelop is equalent to that of f-16. Now does that tell you a thing or two about the f-16.
Now our theater of opp we have to worry about india primarily and to some extent iran.
If you take out the flankers and the mirage 2000 iaf has a poor inventory which is old and mostly out of action as claimed by their own acm. If war were to happen today they would be struggling to even deploy half of their fighter ac inventory, primarily as most ac are out of service and also cuz india is a big country and has many foes in all directions so it cant deploy all its military asetts against PAK. Talk of 200 multi role fighter has been going on for a while and it will take india a while to induct the said ac.
Iran ie iaf to be honest has nothing and will contiune to have nothing for the forseeable future. So the threat from the west is neglegiable.
So in htis mix if PAF was to induct f-16 block 52 and f-16 mlu plus jf-17 and erie eye you have a decent af to meet the challanges in hand by the time india looks to induct the 200 multi role ac PAF would be moving to induct a 4th gen ac it self.
PAF is not inducting the FC-1 that is the chinese varient PAF will induct JF-17.

 

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Do you know that for the JSF compitition the performance envelop for all the participating ac was set as the equalent of f-16 block 15, ie f-16 was the measure and the f-35 jsf's performance envelop is equalent to that of f-16. Now does that tell you a thing or two about the f-16.
Now our theater of opp we have to worry about india primarily and to some extent iran.
If you take out the flankers and the mirage 2000 iaf has a poor inventory which is old and mostly out of action as claimed by their own acm. If war were to happen today they would be struggling to even deploy half of their fighter ac inventory, primarily as most ac are out of service and also cuz india is a big country and has many foes in all directions so it cant deploy all its military asetts against PAK. Talk of 200 multi role fighter has been going on for a while and it will take india a while to induct the said ac.
Iran ie iaf to be honest has nothing and will contiune to have nothing for the forseeable future. So the threat from the west is neglegiable.
So in htis mix if PAF was to induct f-16 block 52 and f-16 mlu plus jf-17 and erie eye you have a decent af to meet the challanges in hand by the time india looks to induct the 200 multi role ac PAF would be moving to induct a 4th gen ac it self.
PAF is not inducting the FC-1 that is the chinese varient PAF will induct JF-17

Ahhhh! Very well said Marshal, good points. Most of Pakistan's neighbours have showed nothing but hate. But they dont know how much balance in power 75 block 50/52 F-16's can make in a country like Pakistan. I mean think about it, Pakistani pilots are amongst the best of the world not to mention our techni boys. America is so concerned of our pilots in UAE that they dont even allow Pakistani pilots to operate or to be assigned to the latese block 60 F-16's. Iran has lost alot of F-14's during the Iran-Iraq war. making them continue the next day with about 25 (I believe). If the F-16's are succesfully delivered then we have full tactical and technological advantage over Iran, Afghanistan and somewhat of India.

PAF has been doing alot of things in there power to purchase new combat capable F-16's. Before we negotiated for these F-16's all we did was just purchase aircraft for transprt role, Vip and not to mention the brand new Erieyes. Now Kaleem Sadaat also mentioned a new purchase of an aircraft that meets the PAF requirement, which aircraft do you think it would be guys?? Please do not turn this into a wishlist and show a resource and credible information that would fit with it. If you do have a wishlist GO MAIL IT TO SANTA!

I belive that Mirage 2000 will be the next aircraft of the PAF as the French are willing to provide it to Pakistan and the recent news also mentioned that France was willing to share N-tech as well as the Mirage 2000. France has also helped us with the disaster of October 8 05 and so our relations with them are continuing to improve every day. France always looks for ways to earn money as its own aircraft are to much to pay for. Over the upcoming years there is no doubt that France's aircrafts mwill split around the world!

 

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Ahhhh! Very well said Marshal, good points. Most of Pakistan's neighbours have showed nothing but hate. But they dont know how much balance in power 75 block 50/52 F-16's can make in a country like Pakistan. I mean think about it, Pakistani pilots are amongst the best of the world not to mention our techni boys. America is so concerned of our pilots in UAE that they dont even allow Pakistani pilots to operate or to be assigned to the latese block 60 F-16's. Iran has lost alot of F-14's during the Iran-Iraq war. making them continue the next day with about 25 (I believe). If the F-16's are succesfully delivered then we have full tactical and technological advantage over Iran, Afghanistan and somewhat of India.

PAF has been doing alot of things in there power to purchase new combat capable F-16's. Before we negotiated for these F-16's all we did was just purchase aircraft for transprt role, Vip and not to mention the brand new Erieyes. Now Kaleem Sadaat also mentioned a new purchase of an aircraft that meets the PAF requirement, which aircraft do you think it would be guys?? Please do not turn this into a wishlist and show a resource and credible information that would fit with it. If you do have a wishlist GO MAIL IT TO SANTA!

I belive that Mirage 2000 will be the next aircraft of the PAF as the French are willing to provide it to Pakistan and the recent news also mentioned that France was willing to share N-tech as well as the Mirage 2000. France has also helped us with the disaster of October 8 05 and so our relations with them are continuing to improve every day. France always looks for ways to earn money as its own aircraft are to much to pay for. Over the upcoming years there is no doubt that France's aircrafts mwill split around the world!

well put elite pilot.

 

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Pakistan to spend USD 300 million next year to buy F-16, Orion PC-3

ISLAMABAD, Nov 23 (KUNA) -- Pakistan will go for the purchase of F-16 jet fighters and maritime patrol aircraft Orion PC-3 early next year with the amount approved by the US Congress few days back as part of the foreign appropriations bill for 2006.

Pakistan will make the purchase with USD 300 million, almost half of the Congress approved amount, USD 698 million, despite President Pervez Musharraf's decision to delay the expensive but needy defence deal till it is required, an official source told KUNA here on Wednesday.

It said that 25 used and about 55 new F-16 planes will be acquired.

The approved bill is a part of a USD three billion, five-year assistance package announced by President George W. Bush for Pakistan in June 2003 after a meeting with President Musharraf at the Camp David presidential resort.

Earlier, defence sources said that the two defence deals, F-16 jet fighters and Saab-Ericson, have been delayed till April next year to adjust the cost of reconstruction and rehabilitation in the quake devastated areas.

The chief of Pakistan Air Force (PAF), Kalim Saadat, Monday called for the purchase of F-16 planes and indirectly opposed the deferment.

He said that the if Pakistan did not go for the planes now, the nation would have to wait for another 10-12 years.

"We will have to start again scratch negotiations, if now we decide to postpone the purchase of the planes. This will also cost us more," he maintained.

It is upto the nation to take a decision, he added, saying earlier the nation wanted the planes and now they wanted the deal's deferment.

 

[siresoul]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Yeah ACM is right pakistan should have to hit the deal now they donot have to pay the full money in advance just firstly ask them to mlu/upgrade the old one first then after one year go for the new ones. by this i think they can manage this ....

 

[fieldmarshal]

PAF to acquire 26 F-16 asap

PAF to acquire 26 F-16 asap

Pak Observer (11/25/05)

Aroosa Alam

Islamabad—Although Pakistan has kept on hold the much awaited F-16 deal with USA in order to divert resources to the rehabilitation and reconstruction of earth-quake areas, a decision at the highest authority has been taken to acquire 26 F-16s from Holland and Belgium soon after the Congressional seal. The 26 F-16 A & B are part of the package of 76 fighters that was announced by President Bush on March 26 this year after US Secretary of State Ms Rice’s South Asian visit. The US Administration after announcing the sale of F-16s to Pakistan notified its decision to Congress which will approve the deal. The 26 F-16s were to be sold to Pakistan by Holland and Belgium after the US Congress allows third country sale of these planes.

Top official sources told Pakistan Observer that while the deal with US for F-16 is on hold, 26 F-16s will be available to Pakistan Airforce in a matter of months. Officials said that Pakistan has also received a firm commitment from the US Administration that the remaining F-16s will be available to PAF whenever the country decides to revive the deal. Holland and Belgium under their force reduction have put on sale their surplus F-16s and have agreed to sell them to Pakistan at the probable price tag of about 10 million US $ per piece.

Sources said that Belgium could release some surplus F-16A/B to the PAF, most probably airframes with 2,000-3,000 hours of service left in them and without the MLU (Mid Life Update) features. The only real PAF modification would be to the radio and other systems for compatibility with PAF C3 (Command, Control, Communication) systems.

Regardless, the provision of such F-16s would improve the PAF’s capability substantially, even a force of 26 surplus F-16A/B would make a notable difference to the PAF’s capability. The price of surplus F-16A/B is likely to be in the reign of $10 million to $15 million per unit. This makes it on par with the FC-1/JF-17 in price, and would remain superior at field performance.

If no political strings attached used F-16A/B, is the best option. Logistically it would be feasible to incorporate the type, as Pakistan could easily train enough crews to accommodate a larger F-16A/B force. With upgrades, this option would make a lot of sense, especially if the upgrades could be carried out in Pakistan by PAC Kamra. The additional F-16s would also allow the PAF to phase out a large number of aircraft such the F-7P and concentrate its force to become smaller, leaner, and meaner.

While it is not clear what will be the breakdown of 26 F-16s between Belgium and Holland, the Belgium F-16s are believed to be equipped with BVR capabilities.

PAF sources say that surplus F-16 A/B from Holland and Belgium have been upgraded but it is still not clear if they have gone through MLU (Mid-life Upgradation). Some of the Holland’s F-16s have certainly gone through MLU but again it is not clear if these are available for sale to Pakistan. Once the US Congress clears the sale PAF will sign a bilateral agreement with the two countries for these fighters for sale as well as the logistic support including the supply of spares.

PAF has been very frustrated for not having been able to induct front-line fighter for last 15 years. It operates a fleet of 32 F-16s as a mainstay for air defence. The Force had taken a sigh of relief after the US decision to sell F-16s to Pakistan. But President Musharraf’s decision to postpone the acquisition came as a rude shock. Sources close to President however claim that the President had taken the decision with a heavy heart. And this is the reason that President will be pushing the acquisition of 26 F-16s from Europe on a fast track.

Even though CBMs with India are gaining pace with the opening of five points for the movement of Kashmiris, there is no let off in Indian belligerence towards Pakistan. Only last week on the 18 Nov, Indian Air Chief Air Marshal SP Tyagi said, in “spite of the confidence-building measures, Pakistan would remain a primary threat to India.†Delivering a lecture at the BC Joshi Memorial Pune University, Indian Air Chief said. “Though things have changed a great deal in the last three years between the two nations, the security dimension remains the same, terrorist infrastructure still exists in Pakistan and there is no reduction in cross-border terrorismâ€. He went on to say that, “Pakistan would remain a major threat and we cannot assume that the peace process is firmly entrenched. Terrorist threats and attacks continue to be regular phenomena indicating that the infrastructure for terrorism in Pakistan is still very activeâ€.

The very aggressive statement by the Indian Air Chief has definitely sent alarms in Pakistani security circles. The government of Pakistan also feels that Pakistan’s security concerns have not changed with the CBMs. Therefore there is a need to review Pakistan’s decision to withhold F-16 deal with USA.

The Indian Air Chief during his lecture also announced that IAF is buying 80 helicopters and contemplating joint production of a 15 tonnes transport aircraft. Besides the IAF, is in the process of acquiring improved sensors that include AWACS, by 2007, five aerostats and air defence missiles. MiG21, MiG 27 and Jaguar have been upgraded while upgradation of Mirage was in pipeline. He said when India enhances its strategic boundaries, the role of IAF would grow and in such situation it must look to increase its strategic reach through flight refueler aircraft. The IAF has acquired six aerial refuelers and have immediate plans of acquiring six more.

 

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: PAF to acquire 26 F-16 asap

GOD!!! F-16's that are A/B model, and even worst it is not clear if they have been the MLU stage of there lifes. If they dont have MLU, pakistan should immideatly start going for F-16 spare parts and the MLU pakiage so we can rely on PAC Kamra. I am thankful that this news has finally reached our eyes. But i just wanted for the F-16's to have gone gone through ther MLU process. This ability can push them up to a level somewhat that of a block 50/52 its basically like the 40/42"+" .

Sources said that Belgium could release some surplus F-16A/B to the PAF, most probably airframes with 2,000-3,000 hours of service left in them and without the MLU (Mid Life Update) features. The only real PAF modification would be to the radio and other systems for compatibility with PAF C3 (Command, Control, Communication) systems.

With this type of crap, i dont think i will be satisfied and same with most of you. If we do get these F-16's, they should be sent to Lockheed or upgraded to MLU standard by our own PAC Kamra. So far i have seen that belgium F-16's are BVR capable but they still have not went through the MLU process and Hollands F-16's have gone through MLU but we dont even know if they are willing to sell those to us. PAF's air cheif and high ranked officers better be looking at to what they are doing. If they do purchase these F-16's they should have a plan to upgrade them to the MLU standard one day or another.

And this is the reason that President will be pushing the acquisition of 26 F-16s from Europe on a fast track.

First delay and not fast track. Dont get me wrong guys, i am thankful but not if they are just F-16's with 2,000 and 3,000 hours left in them!