Pakistan Air Force [PAF] News and Discussions

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

114 F-16's are a good amount of our air force, they are to take care of planes such as most IAF mig-21,25,27,harriers and we are likely to get newer F-16's in the future.

150+ JF-17 are also to take care of most mig-21,25,27

however the other 2 planes the IAF is operating (Mig-29,Su-30) are to be handled with another new aircraft the PAF will aquire... you get me?

but when an F-16,JF-17 has a AWACS babysitting it ,the scenario might change. but by quantity and right now by quality we are lacking

at the end of the day,the pilot makes the most difference

but also i agree with a 40 F-15 ""MLU"" from saudi arabia,as they are likely to retire some F-15,F-5,and tornado and put up for sale. The F-15 could play an escort,air superiority role for our air force, our pilot in KSA also enjoy flying them..the current pilots also agree to this matter(some-most). The other fact of F-15 being equipped with an AWACS plane behind is just "deadly".

Saudi Arabian forces did say that 2 squadron of F-15 in RSAF are to assist the PAF in "problems" (in my case this means "War"). A possible trade could be done of about 60 JF-17 to replace some of the old RSAF fleet,as i believe they are interested in these jets so they can replace their old F-5's and most tornado's.

If you agree please briefly explain why and why not!

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Elite-Brain; F-16s counter every fighter IAF has including MiG-29 & Mirage2000 & its too much for a MiG-21 & 27, & I think MiG-25s are retired.

The only trouble F-16s have against Su-30 is range, altitude climb & Long Range Missile (Which F-16s dont carry but than Su-30 can carry at the most one ot two I suppose), other wise in a near combat F-16 can pose great threat to Su-30.

Thats why IAF always frets over PAF purchasing F-16s.

PAF has shown no interest in F-15s....the only three fighters I have come to know (in which PAF has shown interest directly & indirectly) are JAS-39 Gripen, F-18 & Rafale.

Rafale for various reasons can not & may be will not be purchased (better off with some thing like Mirage2000-9 instead).

Since PAF's interest is in a fighter which can have both US & European avionics & weapons from both sides, F-18 is highly unlikely.

This brings us to JAS-39 Gripen. It has both US & European avionics & carrys American & European weapons like US' AIM-120AMRAAMs & French MICAs.

 

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

SABRE,

i do not by any chance dis-agree with you stating planes such as, f-18 and gripen. but there is a problem, even the JAS is not capable of taking down an SU :reasons:

-good parts of JAS-

-small and highly maintainable
-can carry american missiles
-good radar along with avionics
-comes in variants
-3 fuel tanks
-Anti-ship capable
-supersonic at all altitudes

-bad parts of JAS-

-cannot carry 11+ missiles
-expensive (if PAF want their standards)
-Swedes dont give in packages (you cant get 50 gripens + Erieye, only get 50 gripen)
-not TRULY mature
-more variants with different intakes could be possible
-current variants dont carry alot of fuel
-production line not very fast


these come from me as i did not use all advantages and dis-advantages

 

[SABRE]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

SABRE,

i do not by any chance dis-agree with you stating planes such as, f-18 and gripen. but there is a problem, even the JAS is not capable of taking down an SU :reasons:

-good parts of JAS-

-small and highly maintainable
-can carry american missiles
-good radar along with avionics
-comes in variants
-3 fuel tanks
-Anti-ship capable
-supersonic at all altitudes

-bad parts of JAS-

-cannot carry 11+ missiles
-expensive (if PAF want their standards)
-Swedes dont give in packages (you cant get 50 gripens + Erieye, only get 50 gripen)
-not TRULY mature
-more variants with different intakes could be possible
-current variants dont carry alot of fuel
-production line not very fast


these come from me as i did not use all advantages and did-advantages

I wont put you points to disagreement here. But Gripens are not that expensive. Its taking some enfluence in its avionics from its might neighbour "The EuroFighter". Its capability revolves around F-16s so PAF thinks of it as user friendly.

AVM said that PAF will by high tech fighters from Europe (Not US) besides F-16s. Only three high tech fighters come to my mind from Europe; Rafale, Gripen & EF-2000. What I gave u were my mere evaluations. I highly doubt some thing like Rafale would be bought & Eurofighter is just too political.

 

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

[ Admin Edit: Dude! What does Aircraft carrier program of China have anything to do with Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions??? Stay alert and look before you post! ]

 

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

two things here

Saudi f-15 issue:
This whole idea was put forward by one of the board members in **** def forum. Even though very sound, still is nothing more than the wish list of an individual. (dont get me wrong). Now it seems that the f-15 "bug" has caught this forum as well.
PAF is yet to show any interest in the whole thing and it is more than unlikely that it ever will. At the same time no one is certain when the saudi plan to retire the f-15 if at all. cuz at the moment their priority is to replace the f-5 and than the tornados and than may be the f-15. so its more like a wait of 8-10 years n PAF is not going to wait that long.
US when ever does a deal with any nation, it has a claus in the contract stating that it has the first option on the retiring equipment and at the same time nothing can be sold to a third party without its concent meaning a congressional approval.

Some one here was stating that those birds due to the fact they are in the desert n in saudi hands are in bad condition. this is nothin but farsical. MD has a huge state of the art facility i think in damam to take care of these birds maintained n opp by MD it self, so the birds are in tip top condition.

Grippen issue
Of all the ac options PAF stands the least chance of getting the grippen. As the swedes have some very very strigent laws, which make the export of an offensive platform into a conflict zone practically imposible. N believe u me PAF knows that.

The only european ac which the PAF stands the chance of aquaring is the rafale. So if their is going to be a european ac inducted in the PAF than look no further as rafale is it.

 

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

F-16 deal to be referred to Congress soon

Source http://dawn.com/2005/10/04/top8.htm



By Our Correspondent
WASHINGTON, Oct. 3: The US administration is ready to seek congressional approval for selling F-16 aircraft to Pakistan and a formal request may be sent to Congress later this month, diplomatic sources told Dawn. The sources said that a major announcement about the proposed sale may be made next week.

 

[kashifshahzad]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

If India can change its decision about the gas pipeline then PAF can also go for that AC which can give maximum benifits in strengthening our airforce.
Firstly PAF has to counter SU-30MKIs and also those other 126 MRCAs which India will buy.PAF says that the third fighter will be from Europe ok when it is known to all of us that what ever which ever second hand defencive equipment which Pakistan takes from US it will be free of cost only Pakistan will pay for the upgrades.Then i cant understand that why PAF dont think about having other US planes like F-15s and F-18s why PAF stick to just only F-16s.I want that PAF also buy F-15s from the US in number not more then 40 because that will be enough.
And coming back to the third fighter if it is going to be from europe.first of all i want to mention the grippen which is inferior to F-16 so no need to buy a plane which is inferior to PAF's F-16s they will also be in a lot of numbers.Other plane is Rafale there can be chances of this planes reasons are that it has 14 hardpoints it can carry a lot of weapons MICA will be in the weapon pacakge and it can also make a smooth way in the induction of MICA in thunders and also it is flying unlike that of EF-2000 which has a lot of partners one denies the plane cannot be delivered to PAF simply.
The other chance which i can see is that PAF should buy some J-10s which will be more then 50 this plane is only for support after that PAF should become a partner in the J-XX same like India is partner in the PAK-FA.PAF should take part in the next generation plane in this way PAF would not have any difficulty in having latest planes in the next dacades no one knows what will be situation in the comming years.so thats all which i wanted to say what you people think about this

 

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Anybody have an educated information that they could back up, about the naval version of our JF-17?

the speed of the air craft must increase as the the weight would decrease if the PN wants it to be able to land smoothly on an Air craft carrier (which we should aquire by 2025 if you ask me). The air craft should also be able to maintain ANTI-SHIP missiles,possibly C-803 if we modify it to meet its requirements. DSI would definitely also be on the jF-17 naval variant. It should also have the ability to hold guided bombs. Canard would interfere with the DSI system so if PN does want canards they would have to re-design the JF-17.

it also should have the ability to carry american,french and other origin missiles. The plane could also be used as an escort role if other minor adjustments are made, if the PN does not need naval verion of JF-17, i think that the J-10 could be enough in large numbers. So possibly the PAF would make it capable of escorting large air crafts. As i believe right now they are not capable of doing such things,the PAF would give a job like that to the J-10/gripen/f-16 (depends what we buy). However with large number of planes that are coming in service the PAF could also need tankers.


The reason to why the PAF does not want to buy another American air craft (KASHIF)

is because they do not like to provide us with missiles, technology or other things when Pakistan needs them.

SUPPOSE if we were in a war situation and our F-18's were out of american missiles (which we are pretty good with) what would we do then? ask the un-reliable resources of America who only offers us used technologies while we try our best to get new thing, our planes dont want to get stuck up there with French missiles TRUST ME!

 

[kashifshahzad]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Anybody have an educated information that they could back up, about the naval version of our JF-17?

the speed of the air craft must increase as the the weight would decrease if the PN wants it to be able to land smoothly on an Air craft carrier (which we should aquire by 2025 if you ask me). The air craft should also be able to maintain ANTI-SHIP missiles,possibly C-803 if we modify it to meet its requirements. DSI would definitely also be on the jF-17 naval variant. It should also have the ability to hold guided bombs. Canard would interfere with the DSI system so if PN does want canards they would have to re-design the JF-17.

I am really surprised y its speed and its range i am posting the spec check this out.

Yingji-12 Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile(C-803)
NAME
PLA Official Designation: YJ-12?
NATO Codename: N/A

LAUNCH PLATFORM

JH-7 fighter-bomber

PROGRAMME
It came as a surprise when the model of a new type of ASM of unknown designation as seen carried under the wing of JH-7 fighter-bomber. The missile has a very sleak body with two rectangular shaped engine intakes attached to both sides, a strong indication that this is a supersonic ASM which uses a ramjet propulsion system (speed >2M, range >100km).

Beside those intakes the missile has four stablizing fins attached to the tail. The compact design of the engine intake suggests that the system uses the advanced integrated soild/liquid fuel combustion chamber technology which is one step ahead of the old and bulky C-101/C-301 system where the ramjet engine and the solid booster are separate. A similar design can be found on French ASMP LACM, but the former is expected to be used mainly for antiship purpose using a hi-low flight profile (sea-skimming at terminal stage), which is the primary mission performed by FBC-1/JH-7.

The missle could also serve for anti-radiation purpose but this was not confirmed. It has been rumored for some time that Chinese are working on the next generation of long range and supersonic SSMs/ASMs, such as YJ-12 and YJ-91 etc. This new supersonic missile is probably one the first few members of the new YJ series (YJ-12?) and a prototype may have already been under test. (Article: Chinese Military Aviation)

If these kinds of antiship missile are present in China then what is the need to go to other manufacturers like US they would not supply us military equipment when Pakistan will be in trouble.So there is need for a reliable partner which can supply military equipments when we are in trouble.The P-3C orions are good they will have harpoons but Pakistan must have other means from which they can get missiles when they feel that they have shortage.

The reason to why the PAF does not want to buy another American air craft (KASHIF)

is because they do not like to provide us with missiles, technology or other things when Pakistan needs them.

SUPPOSE if we were in a war situation and our F-18's were out of american missiles (which we are pretty good with) what would we do then? ask the un-reliable resources of America who only offers us used technologies while we try our best to get new thing, our planes dont want to get stuck up there with French missiles TRUST ME!

But i cant understand that why PAF is going for F-16s i mean to say that if we can use other missile which are originated from other countries like france and south africa then why cant PAF do the same with the F-15s and F-18s see man they are coming here for free then why cant PAF gather more and more i know there will be a problem in the maintainance but if PAF has 40-50 then PAF also must have maintainance capebility.
I agree that the thunders must have full variety of missiles the naval versions of thunders which will be kept near shores they should have reliable source of missile supplier so they should knock out the Indian carrier or at least they will keep it to a safer distance from our teritory

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Pakistani F-16s reach 100,000 accident free flight hours

Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - A three-member delegation of Pratt & Whitney called on Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, Chief of the Air Staff Pakistan Air Force at Air Headquarters to present a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours.
Lloyd W. "Fig" Newton, executive vice president, presented a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours.

They also commended the maintenance, quality control and flight safety standards of the PAF, which made this achievement possible.

Retired Gen. Lloyd Newton, along with Gen. (R) William J Begert, Vice President and Warren Boley, Vice President, remained with Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Sadaat, Chief of Air Staff for some time and discussed matters pertaining to mutual and professional interest.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_news_article1468.html


[Admin Edit: Fixed formatting - Please learn how to "copy and paste" ]

 

[s.r.a.h]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

certainly a great achievement by P.A.F. I couldn't find the link but the news was about the number of F-16s operational in PAF to be 35 and four more can be recovered, which means PAF lost only one F-16 in 22 years ('83-'05).

Great record!!!

 

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

wow, good news for our pilots

thats awesome news cause,this really shows how we can maintain our fleet!(cough*unlike SOME countries*cough) if we can handle these block 10's ofcourse we can do same for the 52's. Our awsome techni boys at Sargodha can really get the job done . The best part is,that we survived without Uncle Sam.

where do you think the new F-16's should be based?

Chaklala-to escort VIP or CARGO planes
Sargodha-home sweet home
Peshawar-its the interception wing on the west
Karachi-to maintain shore line
???-possibly a base on the west..the AWACS should also be based there

But i cant understand that why PAF is going for F-16s i mean to say that if we can use other missile which are originated from other countries like france and south africa then why cant PAF do the same with the F-15s and F-18s see man they are coming here for free then why cant PAF gather more and more i know there will be a problem in the maintainance but if PAF has 40-50 then PAF also must have maintainance capebility.
I agree that the thunders must have full variety of missiles the naval versions of thunders which will be kept near shores they should have reliable source of missile supplier so they should knock out the Indian carrier or at least they will keep it to a safer distance from our teritory

even if we do buy 40-50 american planes the USAF would give us both used A/B variants that need exceptional upgrading. These upgrades would cost 20-25 million per plane (THATS HOW MUCH A GRIPEN COSTS). they would not give us any C/D variant planes that are bought directly from them. Even if they did, we would have alot of trouble to firmly grasp that deal. The F-18 is mainly used for Anti-ship warfare as it has a battle record ful of them. So instead of buying the F-18, a squadron of F-16 could be upgraded to something like the F-2 which is the Japanese version of the F-16 and it is trained for Anti-Ship warfare aswell. these F-16's could be based at Karachi Base.

As for the F-15's...simply no need since we are to get another aircraft in our fleet

You get me???

 

[webmaster]

Re: Pakistan Airforce News and Discussions

Yup, very good news. Thats all we can say about the latest news.

Locking until something more interesting comes out on PAF/PAF acquisitions. Otherwise, this numbers guess game will continue... and you know it's really boring.

***Quality Control*** :

Send me a PM!

 

[kashifshahzad]

6 Z-9C & 8 Alouette III Helicopters for Pak?

Oct 17, 2005: In his farewell address, the outgoing naval chief Admiral Shahid Karimullah said the navy today stands as an effective and efficient arm of the country’s armed forces, fully capable of protecting maritime interests and maintaining deterrence. He said Pakistan Navy had emerged as an effective instrument of the country’s defence and foreign policies, capable of showing presence in its area of interest. About the steps taken for the acquisition of modern platforms and weapon systems, he said the naval fleet was being equipped with smaller vessels and two additional missile boats, constructed at Karachi shipyard. He also referred to the recently concluded contract with China for co-production of four F-22P frigates, and said these measures would considerably enhance the effectiveness of the surface fleet. He said that naval aviation was also being strengthened by acquiring more long range maritime patrol aircraft to replace the existing Atlantic aircraft and making the two grounded P3Cs operational. The two P-3Cs are presently undergoing overhaul in Pakistan with US assistance and are expected to be operational by the end of this year.P-3C Orion is a long range maritime patrol aircraft with an endurance of about 18 hours. It can carry Harpoon missiles.

The outgoing naval chief said while the US is gifting 8 P3Cs to Pakistan, agreements have also been reached to purchase 6 Z-9C helicopters from China and 8 Alouette III helicopters from France, which would considerably enhance the effectiveness of the Fleet Air Arm. He said Pakistan Navy was exploring all options for the acquisition of new submarines to make up for the shortfall in their numbers created by phasing out the old Daphne class submarines and to maintain a credible offensive punch.

He said while planning to induct new surface, air and subsurface platforms, due attention has also been paid to acquisition of latest weapons and sensors for modernization of the existing units. He made a special mention of torpedoes for Agosta 90-B submarines, and said the acquisition of Harpoon Block-II missiles and the latest CIWS will also contribute significantly to the Navy’s operational capability.

[Admin Edit: Can't seem to confirm the news from a reliable source. ]

There must be purchases of some heavy transport helicopters after after some time of this Relief and rescue operations going on in AJK.There must be a squadron which must be linked with the Relief and Rescue operation team for disaster managemet.

 

[moinanwer]

Re: Pakistan To Buy Six Z-9C And Eight Alouette III Helicopters, Agreement Reached

very interesting news.

Can some one give a link with information regarding Pakistans air force,navy and army's helicopter force in detail.

 

[lakhani]

Re: 6 Z-9C & 8 Alouette III Helicopters for Pak?

This is nothing new news, already posted in dawn 10 days before.

The statement was released on oct 7, before the earthquake striked, so relating it with earthquake is ........ .

The outgoing naval chief said while the US is gifting 8 P3Cs to Pakistan, agreements have also been reached to purchase 6 Z-9C helicopters from China and 8 Alouette III helicopters from France, which would considerably enhance the effectiveness of the Fleet Air Arm.

This is apart of article. The link is below:

http://www.dawn.com/2005/10/08/nat7.htm

 

[Hussain]

Re: 6 Z-9C & 8 Alouette III Helicopters for Pak?

Alouette 111's aren't they a bit old to do anything? They can only carry limited cargo and have no real ability to carry anti tank weapons (except for a machine gun) and a single torpedo.

 

[Elite-Pilot]

Re: 6 Z-9C & 8 Alouette III Helicopters for Pak?

Alouette 111's aren't they a bit old to do anything? They can only carry limited cargo and have no real ability to carry anti tank weapons (except for a machine gun) and a single torpedo.

Hussain, please give our country time. We will buy what we can afford and we will buy the best of what we can afford! just hang on there, i know they are old....we all know so just stick with what is happening for now. Don't go off making a wish list.

 

[BilalK]

Saab takes important step for Surveillance System to Pakistan; 2005-10-18 21:56

Saab has signed a provisional contract to supply an airborne Surveillance System for Pakistan. A number of outstanding issues remain until a contract will be finalised.

- For a number of years we have been engaged in negotiations with Pakistan for an airborne surveillance system. The system will be used for surveillance, command and control in order to counter the effects of future crises and catastrophes. There are a number of outstanding issues that remain to be resolved until a final contract is in place, says Saab CEO Ã…ke Svensson.

Pakistan has for a long time required an airborne system for continuous surveillance of the air territory, borders and the sea. The surveillance system will, together with existing ground based radars, provide a more detailed picture to be able to conduct rescue operations and to encounter different threats to the country.

In the aftermath of the severe earth quake, the system would have been able to play a significant part in the search and rescue operations and in the logistic support. The airborne surveillance system includes Saab 2000 turboprop aircraft equipped with Ericsson Microwave Systems airborne radar system ERIEYEâ„¢.

Saab is one of the world’s leading high-technology companies, with its main operations focusing on defence, aviation and space. The group covers a broad spectrum of competence and capabilities in systems integration.
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http://www.saab.se/node3299.asp?id=2005101822730
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