PAK-FA / T-50: Russian 5th Generation Fighter

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funtz

New Member
The landing gear didn't retract during flight....
in the youtube vid from .20sec to .25 landing gear is retracted.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXwxWYGbN-0"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

I think the risk of pushing the program is always there. there is still a need of inducting Su-35 and MiG-35 in the RuAF, the program is in the very early stages, avionics and engine development is still going on and some have said that there is political pressure on the program.

for now the design looks very clean
 

Haavarla

Active Member
in the youtube vid from .20sec to .25 landing gear is retracted.
YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.

I think the risk of pushing the program is always there. there is still a need of inducting Su-35 and MiG-35 in the RuAF, the program is in the very early stages, avionics and engine development is still going on and some have said that there is political pressure on the program.

for now the design looks very clean

Yes your right, funtz, the gear is retracted.
I find this a bit off, they usually fly with the gear out on the first flight..

Perhaps this isn't the very first flight..?;)



Thanks
 

Haavarla

Active Member
I don't know. It just seems like the project has premature written all over it.


What do you mean Feanor?

It is the first flying prototype, there will be some changes during the time the first Pre-prod/prod units show up.




Thanks
 

funtz

New Member
the nose seems very small ,i wonder what size radar array will it accomodate?
There is no radar in the nose, neither is this the final configuration

According to Sukhoi, PAK FA avionics integrates ‘electronic pilot” function and AESA radar being developed by Tikhomorov NIIP design bureau. NIIP’s full-scale phased array antenna was unveiled at Moscow MAKS in August 2009.

At that time Anatoly Sinany, Tikhomirov’s chief designer, explained that T-50’s radar antenna will have 1,500 T/R modules, produced by Iztok company from Fryazino, near Moscow. The new avionics will give T-50 network-centric capabilities, enable it to exchange real-time data within the air group and with ground command posts.
link
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
YF 23 Born again

I for one thing thrils that PAKFA actually come out with show much resemblences (at least exterior) with YF 23. Personally back then I was hoping YF 23 won, and not YF 22.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Congrats to Sukhoi for first flight. Finally, an English language report.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22fN4fVoFdY]PAK FA T-50 fighter makes first ever flight[/ame]

Below are two different articles on the PAK FA from different aviation magazines.

FlightGlobal said:
Sukhoi's PAK FA fighter completes first flight - By Vladimir Karnozov

Sukhoi has conducted the first flight of its prototype PAK FA fifth-generation fighter, with the aircraft having conducted a 47min sortie this morning.

Flown from KnAAPO’s Komsomolsk-on-Amur site, the PAK FA was piloted by Sergei Bogdan, and “performed excellently”, says Sukhoi.

“In the course of the flight we conducted initial evaluation of the aircraft controllability, engine performance and primary systems operation,” says Bogdan. The aircraft’s landing gear was also retracted and lowered during the first flight.

The PAK FA is powered by two NPO Saturn "Item 117" engines, developed from the Item 117S design already flown on Sukhoi’s Su-35 and a Su-27M testbed. The experimental aircraft’s integrated flight control system controls the engines, along with all other major systems.

Sukhoi says other key design elements include the use of composite materials, advanced aerodynamic techniques and measures to reduce the aircraft’s engine signature, which it claims results in an “unprecedented small radar cross section in radar, optical and infrared range”. The PAK FA is also equipped with an advanced phased-array antenna radar, it adds. Russia's Tikhomirov NIIP displayed an active electronically scanned array design for the fighter at last year's Moscow MAKS air show.

“This is a great success of both Russian science and design school,” says Sukhoi director general Mikhail Pogosyan. “The PAK FA programme advances Russian aeronautics, together with allied industries, to an entirely new technological level.

“These [PAK FA] aircraft, together with upgraded fourth-generation fighters, will define Russian air force potential for the next decades,” he adds.

The first stage of flight trials involving the PAK FA prototype will last until 2012, when the Russian defence ministry and air force are expected to decide on the future of the project. A production version is expected to be designated the T-50.

The new design could also form the basis of a proposed fifth-generation fighter to be produced in collaboration between Russian and Indian companies.

“I am strongly convinced that our joint project will excel its Western rivals in cost-effectiveness and will not only allow strengthening the defence power of Russian and Indian air forces, but also gain a significant share of the world market,” says Pogosyan.

Additional reporting by Craig Hoyle in London
Ares said:
PAK FA Flies

Maxim Pyadushkin writes

Russia’s fifth generation fighter, Sukhoi’s T-50 prototype, was flown for the first time from Komsomolsk-on-Amur on Russia’s Far East at 11.19 local time on Friday, January 29. After the 47 minutes flight the aircraft landed at the airfield of Sukhoi’s KnAAPO facility which assembles PAK FA prototypes.

The T-50 is intended to meet the Russian air force’s PAK FA requirement for a next-generation fighter.

The first prototype was flown by Sukhoi test pilot Sergey Bogdan. He says it was easy and comfortable to control, and the aircraft performed well on all stages of the flight test program. “During the flight we have conducted the initial evaluation of the aircraft’s controls, performance of the engine and main systems. The aircraft also retrieved and extracted a landing gear”, said Bogdan.

The T-50 design reflects a greater emphasis on low-observable shaping than Moscow's previous fifth-generation effort, MiG’s 1.42 program

Sukhoi started the development of PAK FA in the early 2000s. The first flight was initially scheduled for mid-2009. Three prototypes one of which was delivered to Moscow and is being used for static tests. In December another PAK FA prototype started taxi trials at KnAAPO facility. The third aircraft is believed to be used as a complex full-scale stand intended for ground testing.

Sukhoi doesn’t reveal technical parameters of the new fighter. Nevertheless it’s known that PAK FA prototypes will be powered by a pair of NPO Saturn 117S engines. These engines, a further modification of AL-31F, rated at up to 14.5 ton thrust are now also installed at the new Su-35 multirole fighters.

The T-50’s avionics suite is being developed by Ramenskoe Design Bureau. The company’s head Givi Djanjgava earlier explained that the suite includes six-processor computer, visualization tools and flight instrument system.

According to Sukhoi, PAK FA avionics integrates ‘electronic pilot” function and AESA radar being developed by Tikhomirov NIIP design bureau. NIIP’s full-scale phased array antenna was unveiled at Moscow MAKS in August 2009.

At that time Anatoly Sinany, Tikhomirov’s chief designer, explained that T-50’s radar antenna will have 1,500 T/R modules, produced by Iztok company from Fryazino, near Moscow. The new avionics will give T-50 network-centric capabilities, enable it to exchange real-time data within the air group and with ground command posts.

But the first PAK FA prototype is likely to fly without radar as it’s just passing bench tests. The first radar for the aircraft is expected to be ready in mid-2010.

Sukhoi also reports that the new fighter implies composite materials and innovation technologies that together with the aerodynamic shape of the fuselage and reduced engine’s signature ensure its low radar, optical and IR visibility.

The new aircraft is expected to enter in service in 2015 and will be supplied to the Russian Air Force along with Su-35 fighters. Commenting the start of PAK FA flight trials, Sukhoi head Mikhail Pogosyan also mentioned that India will join the program on later stages.
 
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funtz

New Member
There is also the Sukhoi press release
Sukhoi Company launches flight tests of PAK FA advanced tactical frontline fighter

Moscow, January 29, 2010 – Today Komsomolsk-on-Amur witnessed the debut flight of a prototype of advanced fighter of the 5th generation. The aircraft piloted by Sukhoi test-pilot Sergey Bogdan spent 47 minutes in the air and successfully landed on the factory runway.

The flight went successfully meeting all task assigned. “In the course of the flight we’ve conducted initial evaluation of the aircraft controllability, engine performance and primary systems operation, the aircraft had retracted and extracted the landing gear. The aircraft performed excellently at all flight-test points scheduled for today. It is easy and comfortable to pilot”, - said Sergey Bogdan.

Compared to the previous generation fighters PAK FA possesses a number of unique features combining the functionality of both attack aircraft and fighter plane.

The 5th generation fighter is equipped with brand-new avionics suite integrating “electronic pilot” functionality, as well as advanced phased-array antenna radar. This significantly decreases pilot load and allows him to focus upon completion of tactical missions. New aircraft on-board equipment allows real-time data exchange not only with ground based control systems, but also within the flight group.

Composites application and innovative technologies, aerodynamics of the aircraft, measures applied to decrease the engine signature provide for the unprecedented small radar cross section in radar, optical and infrared range. This significantly improves combat effectiveness against air and ground targets at any time of the day in both visible and instrument meteorological conditions.

“Today we’ve embarked on an extensive flight test programme of the 5th generation fighter. This is a great success of both Russian science and design school. This achievement rests upon a cooperation team comprised of more than a hundred of our suppliers and strategic partners. PAK FA programme advances Russian aeronautics together with allied industries to an entirely new technological level. These aircraft, together with upgraded 4th generation fighters will define Russian Air Force potential for the next decades.

Sukhoi plans to further elaborate on the PAK FA programme which will involve our Indian partners. I am strongly convinced that our joint project will excel its Western rivals in cost-effectiveness and will not only allow strengthening the defense power of Russian and Indian Air Forces, but also gain a significant share of the world market”, - said Mikhail Pogosyan, Sukhoi Company Director General commenting on the launch of the flight test programme.
Sukhoi Company (JSC) - News - News
 
you know guys, honestly, i hate to say it but this is anti climactic, and it sucks. As a Russian I expected something more from the motherland, the nose of the airplane looks like a Su27, the tail, is a flattened version of a Flanker.... This plane to me is nothing newer than an X series F18 or F15 of the US Airforce from the early 90s or the late 80s.

I am deeply deeply dissapointed in Russia, where is the amazing plasma stealth everyone has been talking about, where is the advanced engine/advanced IR reduction, the engines are the standard ALs nothing new. where is the RAM, this plane has nothing on it, of course it flew, it has a pair of wings and two engines. Everything will fly well in this configuration, the prototype Su27 looked new, just like the prototype YF22 YF23 looked,

I am meaning to say from a Mig-23 or a Su-17 to a Su 27 was a jump
Just like the YF22 and YF23 looked awesome after the F16s and F15s or even the F4s

The PAK FA looks like.... something China would make, TAKE A BUNCH OF STUFF GLUE IT TOGEITHER, BAM YOU HAVE A 5TH GENERATION..ERR

.... this is really depressing.

В любом случае, внешний вид серийного ПАК ФА будет отличаться от его прототипа.
In any case the external appearance of the serial PAKFA will be different.
В частности, изменения может претерпеть кормовая часть, где будут располагаться отклоняемые сопла двигателей.

In part it will affect the aft where the Thrust vectoring nozzles will be located Prototype DID NOT have thrust vectoring engines in it! - WHAT THE HELL were they test flying today then?

Изменения коснутся и передней части - предполагается, что использованный во время испытаний переплетный фонарь кабины пилота будет заменен на цельный.
Front of the aircraft will be changed to a solid cockpit...

Между мотогондолами расположатся внутренние отсеки вооружения.
Between the engine mounts the internal weapon mounts will be created, HMM I wonder if putting in weapons bays will de-stabilize and completely change the capabilities of this plane.

in all truth and honesty, I give up this aircraft, is a dissapointment. its maiden flight is a failure just like the Bulava. It flies but its nothing more than a test bed, of ideas like the Su47 or the MFI1.44


Plas
 
this may be irrelevant - but is there any added benefit (or reason) to testing in such cold (winter) conditions?

-especially the maiden flight?
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
And what did you expect?

Do you really think that poor and technologically degraded Russia together with backward India can build 5th generation fighter similar to American F-22 and F-35?

The truth is simple - US spent about 150 billion dollars for ATF and JSF programs combined. Official Russo-Indian sources mentioned 8-10 billion dollars overall funds allocated to PAK-FA project. I think the answer is simple - Russia and India cannot design and develop many crucial elements of stealth fighter such as radar absorbing materials, advanced avionics, engines and so on due to tiny financial and technical base. Sukhoi chef designer stated today that PAK-FA project will take even ten years to complete because there is no funds and technology available to continue developing of mentioned systems. That is why PAK-FA tactical and technical characteristics will be severely cut-down. In effect if this plane ever become reality it will be much worse than American stealth fighters and even modernized European planes. Hindu data indicate this is fully accepted because the same sources gave PAK-FA expected RCS value equals to 0.5 m^2 which is comparable with twenty two years old Gripen achievement and much worse than Rafale (0.1 m^2 ) or Typhoon's (0.05 m^2) RCS not mention about F-22/F-35 level (0.001-0.0001 m^2). This is simply ridiculous to call PAK-FA flying mock-up equal to proven and mass produced Western designs. I suppose in 2020 PAK-FA will be able to compete with Chinese "stealth" fighter called J-XX project now. This is aviation league where Russia, India and China can play right now and for foreseeable future. However they should prepare themselves for Western stealth UCAVs then.

All this mass-media loud noise about PAK-FA is simply propaganda campaign aimed at Russian internal public. "Yes! We catch-up Americans right now! We are superpower once again because we have 5th generation stealth fighter equal to F-22 and nothing else!" - one can hear in Kremlin controlled media. Obviously this is the main reason behind "Russian 5th generation fighter" story. I suppose we can see another PAK-FA mock-up during Red Square parade this year!
the pak Fa is still in development the final air craft will be much better. it will definetely match up with the Western 5th generation air craft. sukhoi has never failed to impress before
 

aaaditya

New Member
There is no radar in the nose, neither is this the final configuration


link
i know that there is no radar in the nose,i just commented that the nose radome is small,however having i believe that this will be actual design with minor modifications,i dont see much chances of modifying the nose design.
 

aaaditya

New Member
i wonder if the area between the air intakes will be covered,thus giving it a more cleaner profile and additional internal weapons storage area ,or fuel carriage space.the flatter underbody planform will also contribute to the lift produced.
 

windscorpion

New Member
Some of the above criticisms are a bit harsh, its the maiden flight! The in-service plane will likely be quite different just as with any type. Using stuff from the likes of the Flanker makes sense to save time and money at this stage. I look forward to seeing how PAK-FA develops.

Yes the hype from the Russians is maybe a bit high but they are hardly likely to say its rubbish are they? Everyone hypes up their planes. After a while you develop a bull**** filter :)
 

Haavarla

Active Member
Easy people..

Man if you tought all that Plasma stealth crap and that it would look like a damn thingie from Holywood movies you are all very mislead.
And perhaps your understanding of what requirement a 5th generation fighter need ist that great.

But the fact is that this prototype have pretty good external feature that one can judge by, wich is about the only thing we can debate here.

Well those jet nozzles are pretty much Flanker. When the prod model comes out and it still look like that. Its pretty much ok.
The 3D TVC will surly bennefit from it rather than a F-22A jet nozzles.
Will the IR-signature be as good as the F-22A? Nope.
Who cares. Its not that big improvment anyway.
And keepeing the cost down.. you know the story here.

Lets move on to the Nose And Cockpit, very much like F-35 & F-22. Is this a bad thing? Nope.
Beside the 'Been there, done that' is very much the rule here. It is not possible to make this any better than LM approach.
If so, pls let me know?

The LERX over the Air-inlets are pretty impressive approach.
The Internal weapons bays look like they can carry some big toys.

The Wings itself looks very good from a Stealth point of view. It also would field a lot of Fuel, perhaps even enough to make it out range the F-22A.
It has the right Angle for manuvering with high AoA.
It has the right angle for Reach & maintain high speed.
It has the right featureing for good low speed handeling.

The Stabilizers are allso an interesting & good feature. Smaller than the F22A, and its function as big control surfaces(The whole thing)!
The Side and Front look pretty good as far as X-band Radar wave are concerned.

Ok, i will finnish this by saying that a dude workin over at the LM said on another forum that they was pretty impressed by what they seen so far.
And as pointed out earlier many times, this Pak-Fa program budget does not come near the F-22/ F-35 R&D budget.
 
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