National identity is an interesting discussion. I think @ngatimozart is correct that here in Australia there has been a tendency to cling to notions of identity arising from of a colonial past. Of course, post WW2, European immigration and the U.S. have been the predominant influence on many aspects of Australian life. IMHO, this is waning fairly quickly. The Indo Pacific looms large in immigration numbers, economic and social influences as well as in strategic and defence matters. In my mind, there is no doubt Australia will one day be a republic. That may be after Queen Elizabeth passes, and a Presidential model is offered where people vote for the president, not one where a President is appointed. Time will tell.
NZDF General discussion thread
- Thread starter NZLAV
- Start date
When 1 in every 3 Australians were born in another country, what little culture we had has been diluted.
The future of Australian identity is a big ?
The future of Australian identity is a big ?
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Toronto’s population is 49% foreign born (2019 census). Vancouver is similar and most Canadian cities have significant foreign born populations but the overall national percentage is around 20%. The rural urban divide explains election outcomes here.
Utter bullshit. Our culture IS as an immigrant nation. Not just 1 in 3 born overseas, more than half of all Australians have at least one foreign born parent.
Get with the majority. We like it that we've swallowed up repeated waves of immigrants and can still enjoy a stable democratic lifestyle in which I can go to the indigenous neighbours on one side and listen to some "deadly" jamming while sharing some beers and a sausage, and feel equally comfortable eating delicious vegetarian dishes with the Sikhs over the back fence.
And BTW we watch each other's houses, give lifts when the car breaks down and all the other neighbouly things I remember from growing up in a mainly Anglo-German settled farming area. (TBF, no-one has recently asked me to help with the milking while they had a holiday.)
Culture isn't stale. Culture is now.
oldsig
Can we get back to the thread topic please, which is NZDF Discussion.
Cheers, MrC
Cheers, MrC
An interesting article by Fran O'Sullivan of the NZ Herald. She suggests that FVEY be expanded to a trade pact giving it a more "acceptable face" than the current security "spikey" face. She appears to want it to be a more trade centred pact rather than the intelligence agreement that it is now. I do think that there would be advantages to this but the security side of the agreement should not be overruled by the trade aspect and my concern is that once MFAT become involved, that will happen.
www.nzherald.co.nz
Fran O'Sullivan: Trade basis a better look for Five Eyes
New deal with economic focus could help bring US back to table.
www.nzherald.co.nz
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
I no see whole article ... as it is behind their pay wall :-/ I am not sure what to think on that idea as of yet though :-/An interesting article by Fran O'Sullivan of the NZ Herald. She suggests that FVEY be expanded to a trade pact giving it a more "acceptable face" than the current security "spikey" face. She appears to want it to be a more trade centred pact rather than the intelligence agreement that it is now. I do think that there would be advantages to this but the security side of the agreement should not be overruled by the trade aspect and my concern is that once MFAT become involved, that will happen.
Fran O'Sullivan: Trade basis a better look for Five Eyes
New deal with economic focus could help bring US back to table.
Don't "utter bullshit" me.
I have an opinion, and so have you.
I have no problem with immigration or what origin the immigrants come from.
I do however have a problem with the numbers and the how quickly it is happening.
When infrastructure is keeping pace with immigrants, I might be ok with it. How many dams have been built to cope with increasing numbers. In 1985 Sydney had a population of about 3 million. Now it's 5 million. Wonder why droughts seem so bad when the water supply has not been increased. Etc etc etc.
Yep it is.
Gracie1234
Well-Known Member
The five eyes trade bloc would be a good idea, include free movement of people but it will never happen without including increased alignment on defence and security matters. The USA does not do things for free. We would be the smallest member. In my view, the USA will need to increase its engagement economically with the Indo-Pacific if it wants to maintain its supremacy.
KrustyKoala
New Member
A good idea but PM Jacinda has made it clear already she wants FVEY to remain an intelligence sharing agreement and nothing else not a security arrangement nor trade. The CPTPP is pretty much what Fran O Sullivan is after. Its a big trade agreement and one that Canada, Australia, UK and NZ are all about to have 98% enhanced Free Trade through. the US (which reannounced interest during trump) will join it eventually but it will be years from now while they focus on domestic issues.An interesting article by Fran O'Sullivan of the NZ Herald. She suggests that FVEY be expanded to a trade pact giving it a more "acceptable face" than the current security "spikey" face. She appears to want it to be a more trade centred pact rather than the intelligence agreement that it is now. I do think that there would be advantages to this but the security side of the agreement should not be overruled by the trade aspect and my concern is that once MFAT become involved, that will happen.
Fran O'Sullivan: Trade basis a better look for Five Eyes
New deal with economic focus could help bring US back to table.
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
Sounds like CANZUK but add in the US So CANZUKUS... basically that is all they want... free trade, freedom of movement and tighter defense ties... and since most people don't want that can't see it happening with the US...
There's a left wing anti US lobby that appears to have quietened down in recent times, although their stench still surfaces on social media now and again. There is also an anti FTA lobby lead by Prof Jane Kelsey who appears to be anti any trade agreement. Don't know what her grounds are or where she's coming from. But I would hazard a guess that she belongs to the anti US brigade and may have been alongside Helen Clark at the wharf when USS Ranger pulled alongside with the Skyhawks lashed to its flight deck.
Close but no cigar NG. It was the USS Okinawa which delivered them NG. 
Though the ex RAN A-4's flew off the USS Ranger ... so maybe a half a point for you.
Though the ex RAN A-4's flew off the USS Ranger ... so maybe a half a point for you.
Yep, I remember seeing that as I was a young corporal at Base Auckland at the time. We went to town and had a bar sesion with some of the sailors from the Okinawa and I was amazed by how many medals they had as a significant number were on their first trip outside of the US. Even the first timers had at least one full row.Close but no cigar NG. It was the USS Okinawa which delivered them NG.
Though the ex RAN A-4's flew off the USS Ranger ... so maybe a half a point for you.
The Taliban have murdered overnight one of the Afghan nationals who worked for NZDF whilst it was in Afghanistan. IIRC this is the second Afghan national who worked for or with NZDF who we know of that the Taliban has murdered. That's two individuals blood that is directly on the hands of PM Ardern, Foreign Minister Mahuta, and Defence Minister Henare, because they did as little as possible to rescue the 1,000 Afghans entitled to be removed to NZ. These people could have been bought out a lot earlier this year when they made their applications.
Now the government have decided to send a special envoy to the Middle East. We shall see what this envoy can achieve, but this government has blood on its head and hands because of its inaction and unwillingness to honour NZ's debt to these Afghani personnel and their immediate families.
Now the government have decided to send a special envoy to the Middle East. We shall see what this envoy can achieve, but this government has blood on its head and hands because of its inaction and unwillingness to honour NZ's debt to these Afghani personnel and their immediate families.
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
What I don't get is why we didn't act earlier when they were pleading to get them out... This falls on the Jacinda and yes blood on their hands...
Shanesworld
Well-Known Member
I suspect it may have had in one aspect to do with too few hercules available. Which might lead to scrutiny of the wider defence force under resourcing.
I get the impression the Govt were working thru mountainous volumes of paperwork for immigration purposes for these people and then got stymied by COVID lockdowns when it seems immigration NZ effectively ceased doing anything of any value to anyone! Then lo & behold the USA pull the pin on Afghanistan catching many countries with their pants down... altho to be fair it was known the USA was going to bail, just the rapidity of it was unexpected... along with the Afghanistan Govt who it is now suggested had rehearsed evacuation of the President. So basically an overly-bureaucratic process overtaken by events (COVID & collapse of the Afghan Govt)... sounds like a James Bond movie where 007 gets killed off at the end! These people should've been brought out years ago... and that to be fair probably wasn't just this Govt's doing... but the team holding the horses reins at the time take the heat!
The numbers of Afghanistan Refugees into New Zealand of which the bulk have been interpreters and local staffers and their families to the NZDF and NZ officials in Kabul and previously in Baniyam.
2015 - 157
2016 - 143
2017 - 123
2018 - 114
2019 - 105
2020 - 128
The NZDF pulled out completely in May this year after the announcement in February. The major wind down in Kabul started in September 2019 after Ron Mark and Winston Peters had it extended a year. The Trump administration pull out ordered in November 2020 just prior to the US election, should have been the point when the paperwork should have begun to be prepared for the remaining ones in order - if they at the time wanted to leave their homeland. Maybe they wanted to believe it would get better and stuck it out particularly in those earlier years of 2015-16 when it was the Baniyan people who were all given the invitation to apply to NZ. The Biden pullout in July should have been a really big clue when the US signalled it would withdraw it remaining 2500 troops. That Henare, Ardern, Mahunta and the Immigration minister Faafoi were not preemptive even at that point speaks volumes as to competency and being on top of their brief.
2015 - 157
2016 - 143
2017 - 123
2018 - 114
2019 - 105
2020 - 128
The NZDF pulled out completely in May this year after the announcement in February. The major wind down in Kabul started in September 2019 after Ron Mark and Winston Peters had it extended a year. The Trump administration pull out ordered in November 2020 just prior to the US election, should have been the point when the paperwork should have begun to be prepared for the remaining ones in order - if they at the time wanted to leave their homeland. Maybe they wanted to believe it would get better and stuck it out particularly in those earlier years of 2015-16 when it was the Baniyan people who were all given the invitation to apply to NZ. The Biden pullout in July should have been a really big clue when the US signalled it would withdraw it remaining 2500 troops. That Henare, Ardern, Mahunta and the Immigration minister Faafoi were not preemptive even at that point speaks volumes as to competency and being on top of their brief.