New Coronavirus threat

hauritz

Well-Known Member
Good news for New Zealand and Australia is pretty much on top of it as well, but it is too early to celebrate just yet. Now you have two very badly damaged economies to fix up.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
The answer is sort of yes, and sort of no. Influenza viruses mutate readily, and there are also different types of influenza virus (A through D) which in turn have different potential strains. This is why there are seasonal flues as the most prevalent form of influenza can be quite different from year to year, to the point that a person might be effectively immune one year but not another.

This ready ability to mutate also makes creating the correct vaccine for a seasonal flu quite difficult, as the vaccine manufacturers have to predict what specific type(s) of influenza are going to be most common for a specific flu season, and then develop a vaccine which is appropriate for that or those influenza viruses. If a pharmaceutical company produces the correct vaccine for a given flu season, and then a person is administered that correct vaccine, it can be quite effective. Given the variables involved though, it can be rather like hitting an evading target though.

Now SARS-CoV-2 is a different type of virus, being a coronavirus instead of an influenzavirus. Depending on a number of factors, a vaccine for the SARS-CoV-2 virus could be quite successful, if it can actually be developed. I say, "if," because the common cold is also caused by a coronavirus, and vaccine R&D for that coronavirus has been going on for decades without success. If people can build up anti-bodies to provide immunity to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, and the virus itself does not mutate or otherwise develop strains so far apart that different anti-bodies are required, then an effective vaccine could possibly be developed.
The common cold is actually not one disease, but at least 200 diseases with similar symptoms, four of which are caused by coronaviruses. Other types of virus, of different, unrelated types, cause 70-85% of colds (it varies). Yes, there's been research on cold vaccines for many years, but it's been rather low-key, with modest funding. Covid-19 has had decades of cold vaccine spending thrown at it in a few months, top labs & researchers focusing on it around the world, & using technologies which have only recently become available. The SARS-CoV-2 genome was mapped & published in weeks, & many teams immediately began using that information to work on vaccines. For 90% of the time work on cold vaccines has been going on that hasn't been possible. The technology did not exist.

Several potential vaccines are in human trials already, & at least two are in production so that they can start being distributed immediately if the trials are successful. That speed & scale of response is unprecedented, & shows what new technology makes possible if resources are made available.

I have no idea if the effort will be successful, but I suspect that if success is possible, it will be.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
The 5G stuff is cringeworthy but not surprising. I teach twelves year olds who have a better grasp of the EM spectrum and the difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation than numerous members of the adult population. It seems that much of the latter draw their understanding from Netflix and/or the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
I recall that many years ago there was a demonstration, which turned violent, in a small town in Ireland against the radio mast on the local police station being replaced. My then employer's Irish subsidiary (a mobile phone network operator) was paying for it, & installing mobile phone aerials on the new mast at the same time. That was what the protest was about, because as any fool knew, mobile phone transmissions fried brains.

What every fool didn't know (being a fool) was that the radio waves from the digital transmitters being installed for mobile phones & the new Gardai radio system would carry less energy than the ancient analogue Gardai radio transmitter put out on its own, & they'd be blocked more easily.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Pretty much. Here in the US, much of the pandemic response has been getting viewed through a political lens. A virus does not care what the religion or politics are of a person it infects, and yet pandemic responses at both individual levels as well as governmental keep getting made based off political ideology and not apolitically based off what is believed to work, or what has historically worked in the past.

There are containment, contact tracing and identification protocols which have been in place for long periods of time and have been successfully used to respond to numerous different and at times emerging infectious disease outbreaks and yet for this pandemic, these protocols and the need for them are labeled a hoax. In some respects it has been rather ironic finding out that there was an Anti-Mask League that protested the mandatory order to wear masks in San Francisco in 1918 during the influenza pandemic.
Yes, any obvious mis-coding of a death as due to covid-19 is proof of both a conspiracy & that the numbers are entirely fraudulent. The numbers of covid-19 deaths are compared with those from other causes, e.g. seasonal flu, & sneered at as far fewer (until they become too big, when a new comparator is chosen), & the different bases (one confirmed by tests, the other retrospectively estimated using multiple sources) & periods (one a couple of months, the other much longer) are ignored . . . . . and so on. And, of course, any mention of excess deaths, & cities, provinces, states etc. with double or triple the usual number of deaths in recent months is completely ignored.

I've never seen anything like it before. It's weird, & scary.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
NZ has announced that it has zero COVID-19 cases and that the country will move down from Alert Level 2 to Alert Level 1 at midnight NZST tonight. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern reveals move to level 1 from midnight Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern reveals move to level 1 from midnight. Alert Level 1 means that all restrictions have been lifted, except that the borders remain firmly closed for the foreseeable future. There's been no community infection for 40 days, no new infections for 17 days, a total of 22 deaths, and 1504 confirmed and suspected COVID-19 cases.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #467
The lifting of border restrictions will be the difficult choice down the road.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The lifting of border restrictions will be the difficult choice down the road.
There's a plan for that. It will only be with countries who have the virus fully under control with no community infection for at least two 14 day cycles, and who have robust isolation and contact tracing procedures in place. At present there is one place in our realm, the Cook Islands, are COVID-19 free. The plan is to have an ANZAC bubble when Australia gets its COVID-19 infection rates under control and the community infection rate reduced to zero for a couple of cycles.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
3,000 Crew Changes in Singapore by next week

1. The Maritime and Port Authority of Singapore (MPA) has approved almost 3,000 cases of crew change in Singapore since March 27, with three chartered flights set to help more seafarers leave their ships to go home.

2. To facilitate maritime trade, Ms Quah Ley Hoon, Chief Executive of MPA, said, “Singapore continues to facilitate crew change under established procedures, in view of the ongoing pandemic. These procedures elaborated in the Singapore Crew Change Guidebook are the efforts of many stakeholders including many Singapore government agencies, the Singapore Shipping Association leading an industry taskforce, and the Singapore Maritime Officers Union. We are glad that together with Wilhelmsen and the Synergy Group, and by using a chartered flight, we have been able to help 37 crew members sign-on and sign off. Such chartered flights provide an effective means of crew change under the established procedures.”

3. Thanks to this MPA initiative, the crew of bulk carrier MV Genco Liberty was able to conduct a crew change at the Port of Singapore. The owners of the ship arranged for 1 chartered flight to bring the new crew onboard and return the existing crew to their home country. The nineteen-men crew will return home via a chartered flight from Singapore to Colombo and then on to India. Their colleagues made up of fourteen Sri Lankans and four Indian seafarers who arrived at Singapore from Sri Lanka also via the same chartered flight, signed on the same day.

4. For on-signers of MV Genco Liberty were asked to remain in home quarantine for 14 days and tested negative for COVID-19 before their departure flight. They were met at the airport by an agent with a private transport that complied with safe distancing measures. Face masks and hand sanitisation were also provided for all arriving crew.

5. For the crew signing-off, an approved medical doctor certified that all crew members were fit-to-travel prior to sign-off. There was no sharing of passenger launch boats for crew and service engineers/technicians. The crew were conveyed in private transport that complied with safe distancing measures, and fresh face masks and hand sanitisation were provided for all crew before boarding the vehicles.
 
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ngatimozart

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Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Interesting research paper from Harvard that suggests COVID may have started much earlier. It hasn’t been peer reviewed yet. SARS-CoV-2 Could Have Been in Wuhan Last Summer, According to Harvard Study
The story appeared in the media here yesterday, and the PRC were quite shrill in their denials. However because the article hasn't been peer reviewed yet, I would treat it with some caution until the review is completed. Satellite data and web search data can tell you lots of things, however even after you correlate the two, too symptoms and hospitals, it still doesn't tell if it's COVID-19 or flu, or something else. It only suggests that it may be something like that. They would actually need to get their hands on the hospital admissions data to nail it down.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
NZ has announced that it has zero COVID-19 cases and that the country will move down from Alert Level 2 to Alert Level 1 at midnight NZST tonight. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern reveals move to level 1 from midnight Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern reveals move to level 1 from midnight. Alert Level 1 means that all restrictions have been lifted, except that the borders remain firmly closed for the foreseeable future. There's been no community infection for 40 days, no new infections for 17 days, a total of 22 deaths, and 1504 confirmed and suspected COVID-19 cases.
Meanwhile, in the US things are looking like either the 2nd wave has started, or ripples from the 1st wave are finally starting to reach more of the areas with a lower population density.

Interestingly, while testing has finally been reported as being widespread enough so that areas can start testing the gen pop without requiring a doctor's authorization, the % positive of testing has been reported at ~14% in some areas. At the same time, something like 14 states have been reporting daily new case numbers which are the highest since the pandemic started. In some states, it has been things like not only the highest single day totals, but also things like the 12 days with the highest new case counts on record have been within the last 13 days...

The above, coupled with an increase in/across multiple states of the percentage of people tested who are testing positive suggests to me that following more widespread relaxation of, or in many cases people just outright ignoring mitigation efforts, the virus is spreading again. The increase in the numbers for COVID-19 hospitalizations also seem to bear this out as well.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
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Meanwhile, in the US things are looking like either the 2nd wave has started, or ripples from the 1st wave are finally starting to reach more of the areas with a lower population density.

Interestingly, while testing has finally been reported as being widespread enough so that areas can start testing the gen pop without requiring a doctor's authorization, the % positive of testing has been reported at ~14% in some areas. At the same time, something like 14 states have been reporting daily new case numbers which are the highest since the pandemic started. In some states, it has been things like not only the highest single day totals, but also things like the 12 days with the highest new case counts on record have been within the last 13 days...

The above, coupled with an increase in/across multiple states of the percentage of people tested who are testing positive suggests to me that following more widespread relaxation of, or in many cases people just outright ignoring mitigation efforts, the virus is spreading again. The increase in the numbers for COVID-19 hospitalizations also seem to bear this out as well.
It isn't looking good and the recent and ongoing protests will not have helped matters much wrt COVID-19 containment. The protesters are damned if they did and damned if they didn't. I also saw that Brazil is no longer publishing COVID-19 statistics.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #474
Are these increased numbers taking into account the recent protests or will additional spikes occur from the protests?
 

tonnyc

Well-Known Member
Are these increased numbers taking into account the recent protests or will additional spikes occur from the protests?
Additional spikes will occur. The virus has an incubation period of 5-11 days. We should already be seeing the beginning of the spike, but it's hard to distinguish between spikes caused by the BLM protests and the spikes caused by the earlier ones protesting the preventive measures.

As far as I can tell, most of the BLM protesters are aware of this but consider the issue important enough that they go anyway. They take precautions. We'll have to wait and see to see if they are effective. In theory precautions against tear gas should also protect against the virus. Wearing a mask is also very common (though not everyone do this). Whether these are sufficient, well, we have to wait and see.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
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Nothing like a good teargassing to clear the sinuses. I'm speaking from personal experience. In NZ the government works on 14 day cycles for the virus, so virus wise everything is worked out in 14 day blocks. It's not just in the US that the BLM protests will have an impact upon infection rates, because the demonstrations were / are international. The cause that they are marching for is very important, but at the same time they also have a duty of care to those in their society who will die if they catch the virus. By marching they are in high probability increasing the spread of the virus. They can still register their protest from home, online through social media and other outlets until it's medically safe to take to the streets.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Are these increased numbers taking into account the recent protests or will additional spikes occur from the protests?
Not really IMO. I strongly suspect that if there have been coronavirus cases which were spread at one or more protests, it would have hit the news by now. This suggests to me one (or more) of a couple scenarios. IMO the most likely one is that the current spikes, as well as spread into areas which had not really been hard hit yet has little or nothing to do with the recent protests against racism in the US, as they started after the May 25th of George Floyd. That Monday, the 25th, was also the US holiday called Memorial Day which is not unlike Remembrance Day celebrated in other nations to honour fallen service members. That long weekend coincided both with the start of warmer weather across large portions of the US and more widespread relaxation of mitigation efforts , both of which I suspect led to people observing more traditional celebrations for the holiday like gathering with friends, family, and neighbours to have cookouts, picnics, and parties. It is also quite possible that some of these localized spikes had been quietly brewing following protests last month against lock downs and required mitigation efforts. Given that some of those protests took place with people not wearing PPE (or at least not the kind appropriate for medicine) while in close proximity in enclosed spaces/indoors, all of which are factors where the virus tends to spread.

Another possibility is that the contact tracers have been getting stonewalled or lied to about people with new cases having participated in protests or riots and not reporting it. I consider this unlikely due to the simple fact that so many people across the entire country have participated, and no reported cases have made the news as having been likely transmitted at a protest or riot.

A third possibility is that such spreading has happened, but local/state health departments have managed to keep that quiet, and/or news media has failed or refused to report it. I consider this too, to be unlikely. For a set of circumstances like this, I would expect a health department's ability to prevent the information from leaking out to be about as effective as hauling water in a bucket made of metal mesh. Not to mention that there would also have to be a political angle or reason for all the health departments which would be involved to suppress such information. Given that in a number of areas, the local authorities are opposed to the political objectives of their area protesters, it would be unlikely IMO that local authorities would not use such information against protesters and/or carrying out further protests, if the authorities had the opportunity. As for such information either not getting reported, or perhaps suppressed in the media... I doubt that there would be an agreement across the media which would keep them from reporting such newsworthy information. There are just too many stakeholders, with too many different and often divergent objectives for me to believe that something is not getting reported because it does not fit a particular desired narrative. Especially if one remembers that different news organizations have sometimes very different desired narratives.

We are just now starting to get into the right time window where cases which might have been transmitted in the first week of unrest following Mr. Floyd's death would be more likely to be detected. It is also worth noting that while social distancing was often not followed, and masks were not always worn, or worn correctly (as a side note, that as someone with an EMS background, not wearing masks and other PPE correctly drives me up the wall...) and loud yelling/singing/shouting/chanting were frequently involved and tend to shed the virus more readily in such circumstances, most of the protesting took place outdoors in open air, as opposed to confined spaces like indoors/inside a building. Which means that despite the numbers of and close proximity of protesters, the conditions were not quite 'perfect' for virus transmission. An 'interesting' question to ask would be what impact, if any, would the deployment of less than lethal chemical irritants like pepper spray, pepper balls, or tear gas have upon the virus and viral transmission. Given how these agents can make breathing difficult, I could see such agents increasing the spread of the virus. OTOH I can also see the potential for the virus to react poorly to the presence of such agents, which might decrease viral spread.
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
If nothing else the liberal use of tear gas should ensure protestors will at least keep their face masks on.

Actually it might not be a bad idea to spray massive amounts of disinfectants into crowds that are clearly not adhering to social distancing.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
If nothing else the liberal use of tear gas should ensure protestors will at least keep their face masks on.

Actually it might not be a bad idea to spray massive amounts of disinfectants into crowds that are clearly not adhering to social distancing.
Not really. Tear (CS) gas is an irritant which reacts with the mucus membranes of the nose, mouth, throat, and eyes. Just wearing a mask, unless it is a full face mask with attached respirator or SCBA/airpack is not going to provide protection. As for spraying disinfectants... I would suggest reading the warning labels on household spray sanitizers or disinfectants first, to get an idea of potential outcomes. One might be joking, OTOH it is also possible that one does not realize they are advocating for what would amount to a chemical attack on significant numbers of people with lethal chemical weapons.
 
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