New Coronavirus threat

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Talking fuel prices I was dropping a customers car off to them today and got a shock, either the petrol station rorting the system or more likely some one stuffed up by unleaded was 9.999 a litre ... but the premium was 2.359 lol.
The premium price seems to be similar to Toronto prices, perhaps somewhat lower. When flying back to Toronto from Abbotsford, BC, an Alberta conola/wheat farmer told me diesel prices were getting brutal.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Petrol $2.20-2.30L here in South East Brisbane, Diesel $2.30-2.40. Australian Farmers get a Tax break for Diesel here in Australia, but we are still seeing the cost of Diesel reflecting on the Super Market shelves.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Maybe but animal feed prices aren’t too nice either. BTW, what are petrol prices in NZ? Toronto has 2.01/ litre, lower Fraser valley in BC, 2.09, and Vancouver 2.29. Diesel is 2.49 in Vancouver.
Here in Christchurch and depends upon where you go. We're a cheaper part of the country for motion lotion.
91 Octane = $2.82 / litre - $3.11 / litre
95 Octane = $2.92 / litre - $3.32 / litre
98 Octane = $3.33 / litre - $3.41 / litre
100 Octane = $3.14 / litre - $3.32 / litre

Diesel = $2.57 / litre - $3.40 / litre. Plus diesel vehicle owners must pay road users charges that is calculated on vehicle type and use, and is paid either for time or for mileage. It is quite expensive.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
It appears anti-lockdown protests are on the rise. So far Xi has demanded 100% compliance. It will be interesting to see if the next economy and the public can take much more of this. Xi will only be concerned with the former.

China Xinjiang: Urumqi rocked by Covid lockdown protests after deadly fire China Xinjiang: Urumqi rocked by Covid lockdown protests after deadly fire
It looks like the protests are spreading, not only around Urumqi, but also in other cities like Shanghai. Students have also demonstrated at universities in Beijing and Nanjing.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
The BBC reports that its reporter who was covering the protest against COVID-19 restrictions in Shanghai was beaten and kicked during his arrest.
The British public broadcaster said on Sunday that journalist Ed Lawrence was held for several hours before being released.

BBC added that the Chinese authorities had given no credible explanation or apology for his detention, what we also should not expect from a country like china.

 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
It will be interesting to see what the response will be and when. Some of the protestors have been calling for Xi Jinping's resignation, which will really endear them to him, and others for freedom and democracy. Some protestors have even called for the removal of the CCP and of all of them, that's the most dangerous call to make. That's the same as waving a red flag to a bull. The end result will not be nice.

Some fools in the west claim that this will be the downfall of Xi and the CCP with democracy finally coming to China. That is very doubtful of all counts.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
It will be interesting to see what the response will be and when. Some of the protestors have been calling for Xi Jinping's resignation, which will really endear them to him, and others for freedom and democracy. Some protestors have even called for the removal of the CCP and of all of them, that's the most dangerous call to make. That's the same as waving a red flag to a bull. The end result will not be nice.

Some fools in the west claim that this will be the downfall of Xi and the CCP with democracy finally coming to China. That is very doubtful of all counts.
Agree about the CCP but as I mentioned in the China thread, had these protests started earlier, would Xi’s quest for being ruler for life been affected? Would these protests have emboldened internal opposition within the CCP towards Xi?
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Agree about the CCP but as I mentioned in the China thread, had these protests started earlier, would Xi’s quest for being ruler for life been affected? Would these protests have emboldened internal opposition within the CCP towards Xi?
If they had happened over the northern summer then possibly yes, but I think doubtful. But the Ziang, or any other faction didn't go down this road so we won't know. They wouldn't have countenanced such a tactic because it would've been far to dangerous for them. If / when caught, it would have been an automatic death sentence as traitors to the CCP and motherland. No one, absolutely no one, would've come within 1,000 parsecs of them or anyone to do with them after their arrest.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

I'm not going to dwell much on Fauci talk that Chinese Vaccines effacacies much bellow US MRNA ones. The study in HK (as this article put) also shown 3 doses of Chinese Vaccines provide similar level protection from hospitalisation as MRNA ones.

However Fauci has points on China strategy with elderly vaccinations. Seems China getting more serious in begining to vaccinate their working population of 18-59, resulted so far lower vaccinated rates in above 60. This even being aknowlede by Chinese officials.

Perhaps this is indication why CCP still very reluctance to do more opening/relaxation on their COVID zero strategy. If only 66% of elderlies has full vaccination, then with Chinese 'graying' population means it is still big number. I suspect most in rural area, but can be at risk if their working children return home from their works in Urban center.

Something that seems Chinese officials found their dilemma on how to progress in next stage of relaxation on their policies. They must now ot is has to be done eventually for economy survival stakes. Economics frustration is the biggest threats on any authoratian regime, heck even democratic regimes survival.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Brazil reported that their trials showed that the Chinese vaccine they were planning to buy was only just effective enough to be worth using, & greatly inferior to the western vaccines tested in Brazil.

It seems that not all Chinese vaccines are equal.

Not all western vaccines are equal either, of course, but those that perform poorly in trials are abandoned. That's happened to a couple of covid-19 vaccines that I've heard of.
 

tonnyc

Well-Known Member
Brazil reported that their trials showed that the Chinese vaccine they were planning to buy was only just effective enough to be worth using, & greatly inferior to the western vaccines tested in Brazil.

It seems that not all Chinese vaccines are equal.

Not all western vaccines are equal either, of course, but those that perform poorly in trials are abandoned. That's happened to a couple of covid-19 vaccines that I've heard of.
Are you referring to the news from last year that Sinovac's Coronavac has a 50.4% efficacy at preventing symptomatic infection? While that study is valid, keep in mind that the same study and others from Chile found that the vaccine reduces the probability of severe sickness requiring hospitalization by some 85% and likewise for the mortality rate. Indonesia also reported similar figures later. The links should be in this thread back around July 2021 or thereabouts so I am not going to repeat it. Chile's number also suggests a higher efficacy of some 60% at preventing symptomatic infection but I think we all agree that it isn't as good as the mRNA vaccines.

However, suggesting that China should have adopted a Western vaccine fails to recognize that there wasn't enough Western vaccines for the West back then, much less for the rest of the world. From our own experience (Indonesia) China was able to supply us with Coronavac as early as January 2021. Meanwhile the first shipment of Pfizer's Cominarty arrived in August 2021. Astrazeneca's Vaxzevria arrived reasonably early in March 2021 but the numbers were in the million doses when Coronavac were in the tens of millions. Extrapolating from that to a hypothetical where China were to abandon their own COVID-19 vaccines and get Western ones, it should be obvious that there will be a far more severe shortage than what we experienced. China had no mRNA vaccine production facility at the time, so they can't simply license mRNA vaccine and make them themselves. I am less clear on their ability to make hybrid adenovirus vaccine like Astrazeneca's, but even if they can license and manufacture that, it means leaving the production capability for inactivated virus idle. Some of the equipment are likely usable for other vaccines but it's safe to say that China (and the rest of the world) would have had hundreds of millions less vaccine doses had China adopted a Western vaccine only approach.

China today can also make their own mRNA vaccine (Walvax's AWCorna) which according to Indonesian clinical trial has a 83% efficacy rate, which is not as good as Western mRNA vaccine but is a significant improvement over inactivated virus ones. But I am not aware of a massive deployment of this vaccine in China yet.

Anyway, given all of the above I think China's problem isn't so much their lack of use of Western vaccines. That was just impossible at the time. Rather, as has been pointed out, they don't have an exit ramp. They were banking of Zero COVID policy to get them by until the virus is gone, but the virus is staying. So even if they managed to get rid of the virus domestically, it will just re-enter again from the rest of the world. And China can't close themselves tight enough anyway. North Korea has way less contact with the outside world and they still can't prevent the virus from getting in. China has a semi-porous border with Myanmar (they can officially close the border but smuggling still happens). China should try to figure out how to adapt to an endemic situation. Manage things so while infections do happen the number of hospitalizations are few and deaths even fewer. This does require admitting that the Zero COVID approach doesn't work and that's probably what they won't do. CCP has this issue of not being able to admit they're wrong unless they can blame the previous leader.
 
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