Modernization in TNI - Air Force

[dreamwarrior73]

yes, operating Eastern Bloc equipment can be a nightmare. that's the trade off.

Whether you want to buy cheap equipment from the East without any strings attached and ILS could be a nightmare. Or you can buy expensive equipment from the West with conditions and good ILS.

like it or not. thats the dilemma that is facing the Third World countries when purchasing military equipment. :unknown

 

[abramsteve]

6 fighters..........6!!!!!!

What a waste of time, money and everything else. The fact that given all the problems in Indonesia their government thought that $1 billion would be best spent on 6 fighters says somthing which in the spirit of this forum I wont comment on. Even if they didnt have any internal issues 6 fighters hardly seems worth it.

Think of what could have been should that money gone to their Hurcs... Or even if they bought some Russian transports.

 

[Whiskyjack]

6 fighters..........6!!!!!!

What a waste of time, money and everything else. The fact that given all the problems in Indonesia their government thought that $1 billion would be best spent on 6 fighters says somthing which in the spirit of this forum I wont comment on. Even if they didnt have any internal issues 6 fighters hardly seems worth it.

Think of what could have been should that money gone to their Hurcs... Or even if they bought some Russian transports.

I am not sure but my recollection from that time was that the Indonesian Govt was/is planning to buy up to 80 in a multi year plan (before the Tsunami) and that a lot of money was being spent up front on Training/Logistics etc to make sure that there was a firm foundation for the introduction of the type.

Which would explain the large up front cost.

Stand to be corrected.

 

[marxist_command]

6 fighters..........6!!!!!!

What a waste of time, money and everything else. The fact that given all the problems in Indonesia their government thought that $1 billion would be best spent on 6 fighters says somthing which in the spirit of this forum I wont comment on. Even if they didnt have any internal issues 6 fighters hardly seems worth it.

Think of what could have been should that money gone to their Hurcs... Or even if they bought some Russian transports.

sure, 1 billion for 6 fighter will be a nightmare for us. And we don't know if they are fully equipment.

Nah, don't worry 'bout transport. I heard lately that Indon former president B.J. Habibie will develop N-250 & CN-235 again. And it will be modificate for military use

 

[gf0012-aust]

I heard lately that Indon former president B.J. Habibie will develop N-250 & CN-235 again. And it will be modificate for military use

The CN-235 that CASA have allowed a license to Indonesia for is already a military platform.

 

[renjer]

Yes, Malaysia's RMAF bought 8 of those from Indonesian Aerospace in the CN-235-220M version. I think Pakistan got some too. I am not sure what version theirs are though.

 

[dreamwarrior73]

The CN-235 that CASA have allowed a license to Indonesia for is already a military platform.

are you sure it was license produced? i thought it was co-developed.

 

[gf0012-aust]

are you sure it was license produced? i thought it was co-developed.

The variant that Indonesia has is part of the licensing co-development agreement. The CASA derivative(s) is/are almost a different aircraft. its like comparing a C-130E with a C-130J or a Hornet with a Super Hornet. Superficially they look similar, operationally and mechanically they are completely different.

The Spanish also did similar tech agreements with other companies like Guascor and Waukesha. Ie a base spanish design where they papered up a partnership to broaden market access. The partners platforms are always base models and exclusive of the broad platform license.

Thats my understanding of it anyway - and it was how it was explained to me by some CASA reps about 6 years ago when we were still looking at buying 235's from the Indons as caribou replacements.

 

[marxist_command]

Yes, Malaysia's RMAF bought 8 of those from Indonesian Aerospace in the CN-235-220M version. I think Pakistan got some too. I am not sure what version theirs are though.

CN-235-220M version? never heard of it. D' y know anything about this version? maybe its performance?thankz

 

[gf0012-aust]

CN-235-220M version? never heard of it. D' y know anything about this version? maybe its performance?thankz

Isn't the M defined as the Maritime Patrol model?

 

[renjer]

marxist_command, sorry I don't have any details on its performance right now. I'll look around and see what I can come up with. To add to the export list of the CN-235 I believe even South Korea bought 12 units from Indonesia. Which leads me to the question as to why your air force chose to buy the Skytrucks(?) from Poland rather than buy additional units of CN-235s from IA.

gf, I think the M just stands for Malaysia (for obvious reasons, we are very proud of the letter). But you are on the right track. The radome is different from the standard version and is designed to accommodate a search radar. It might be a case of FFBNW.

 

[gf0012-aust]

gf, I think the M just stands for Malaysia (for obvious reasons, we are very proud of the letter). But you are on the right track. The radome is different from the standard version and is designed to accommodate a search radar. It might be a case of FFBNW.

Thanks matey, yes I've just checked. That will teach me to comment before verifying.

 

[Subangite]

Which leads me to the question as to why your air force chose to buy the Skytrucks(?) from Poland rather than buy additional units of CN-235s from IA.

I don't think the Skytrucks are comparable to the Casa CN-235's, Skytrucks being a much smaller aircraft, have lower cargo, passenger capacity and half the maximum takeoff weight of the CN-235's. Perhaps for TNI-AU, the Skytrucks best suited their needs, whilst any further CN-235 orders possibly could have been too large for their operational requirements.

That said, there have been bizzare procurements by the TNI. Recently for example General Ryamizard Ryacudu former Chief of Staff of the TNI is said to have spent Rp20 billion on a Fokker 50 for the TNI, when it turns out that the Fokker 50 was not even bought for the TNI but leased from a Jakarta based aviation rental firm, to add insult to injury this Rp20 billion was actually allocated from the state budget for Bell helicopters, the Department of Defense never proposed for a Fokker 50 and that the technical specifications of the Fokker-50 are not suitable for the TNI. (Source:Tempo Magazine No. 33/VI April 18-24, 2006)

Spending US$1 Billion for only 6 Sukhoi SU-30's and amongst the other procurement deals for TNI, the skytruck deal seems to be quite "normal".

 

[renjer]

I don't think the Skytrucks are comparable to the Casa CN-235's, Skytrucks being a much smaller aircraft, have lower cargo, passenger capacity and half the maximum takeoff weight of the CN-235's. Perhaps for TNI-AU, the Skytrucks best suited their needs, whilst any further CN-235 orders possibly could have been too large for their operational requirements.

I have to admit I don't know too much about the Skytruck. But then what about the NC-212? Isn't that comparable? You got the point of my post though, Indonesia isn't serious about its air force. Buying a little bit of this and little of that, why it's feels just like the RMAF.

 

[marxist_command]

I've searched on IPTN website and I found these

http://www.dprin.go.id/links/pt_iptn/235-ti.htm

Although it's only reveal 100 M version of CN-235

Did u know any other sites?

 

[marxist_command]

gf, I think the M just stands for Malaysia (for obvious reasons, we are very proud of the letter). But you are on the right track. The radome is different from the standard version and is designed to accommodate a search radar. It might be a case of FFBNW.

nope, M is based from "Military" code

 

[renjer]

nope, M is based from "Military" code

Arggh ... Malaysian national pride takes a blow.

 

[falcon_snack]

hi there guys, i would like to give opinons...

As far as i know, CASA built CN235-100 and IPTN (now IAe) built CN235-110 and so on..CASA came up with -200 and -300 series and IPTN with -220 and -330 series wich was proposed for Aussie's AIR 5190 in late 90's, known as CN-330 Phoenix with some improvement in capability. But crisis happened and ruined everything. Now EADS CN235-300M is flying high and Phoenix programme never heard again.

For 1-billion-for-6-sukhoi issue, i believe it cost less than that coz amount has to devide into 3 services. But the air force's fighter (full armed this time )is the priority, army get helos and navy..well i dunno yet.

And about skytruck..i'm confused too. Indonesia can get C212-400 from IAe for this type of aircraft. Perhaps the reability of delivery the aircraft (lesson from programme of CN235, C212, Superpuma and NBO105 for airforce and navy's order) pushed the govt to chose skytruck. Too bad. I think it's realised by the IAe and they're trying to be better...

 

[marxist_command]

hi there guys, i would like to give opinons...

As far as i know, CASA built CN235-100 and IPTN (now IAe) built CN235-110 and so on..CASA came up with -200 and -300 series and IPTN with -220 and -330 series wich was proposed for Aussie's AIR 5190 in late 90's, known as CN-330 Phoenix with some improvement in capability. But crisis happened and ruined everything. Now EADS CN235-300M is flying high and Phoenix programme never heard again.

Yeah, but Indon former president B.J. Habibie agreed to manage IAe again. So the govt make a decision to start development program of CN-235 series And N-250 series since it's competitor F-27 out of market now

 

[410Cougar]

Tsunami triggered by quake kills at least 110 in Indonesia
Last Updated Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:32:08 EDT
CBC News

A two-metre tsunami spawned by a strong earthquake struck a beach resort area in Indonesia on Monday, killing at least 110 people, according to Indonesian Red Cross officials, police and local media.

Most of the deaths were reported in Pangandaran and nearby Cilacap, and reports from the scene say nearly 80 other people are missing.

Witnesses said the tsunami damaged hotels and threw boats into houses when it hit Pangandaran Beach in West Java province, on the southern coast of Indonesia's Java Island. Thousands of local people ran for a nearby hill to escape the wave.

The main earthquake measured 7.7 in intensity. It hit deep beneath the Indian Ocean, with its epicentre believed to be about 240 kilometres southwest of Java's western coast.

An aftershock with a magnitude of 6.2 rattled the area about an hour after the original quake, followed by another measuring 6.3 more than seven hours later. Several smaller shocks were also reported.

Indonesian Transport Minister Hatta Radjasa told Radio Elshinta, a radio station based in the capital Jakarta, that people living on Java's southern coast should head to higher ground in an orderly way in case more killer waves are on the way.

"Everyone should move from the beach," Radjasa said.

Indonesia has not fully recovered from a tsunami on Boxing Day in 2004 that killed more than 200,000 people.

The area hit by Monday's wave was spared from the earlier tsunami.

A year and a half after the 2004 disaster, Indonesia's main island still does not have a working tsunami warning system that would communicate regional warnings to people living or vacationing near the coast.

With files from the Associated Press

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/07/17/indonesia-earthquake.html


Have fun with your Sukhois. Couldn't afford those Hercs or heavy lift but you sure can afford Sukhois....