Modernization in TNI - Air Force

[marxist_command]

Well, My Government must have been gone mad if they agree 1 billion for 6 SU!

Don't u think with 1 billion we can get any other kind of planes? d'u have any suggestion? maybe mig's or any other russian-made-fighter?

 

[Big-E]

Well, My Government must have been gone mad if they agree 1 billion for 6 SU!

Don't u think with 1 billion we can get any other kind of planes? d'u have any suggestion? maybe mig's or any other russian-made-fighter?

Why don't you take that billion and buy some C-130s?

 

[410Cougar]

Regardless of how much money was spent, the key thing here is that they purchased totally the wrong equipment. You don't need fighters, you need air lift and you won't have it now.

Nobody on this planet is going to be stupid enough to attack you given the humanitarian mess that is developing in your country - it would look really bad if they did and no country can afford that backlash.

As for the money, if the figure is accurate...about the only thing I can think about to do is to hang my head in shame or maybe this...:hitwall

What are you guys thinking??

 

[Big-E]

Regardless of how much money was spent, the key thing here is that they purchased totally the wrong equipment. You don't need fighters, you need air lift and you won't have it now.

Hey now... they bought skytrucks.:lol2

Nobody on this planet is going to be stupid enough to attack you given the humanitarian mess that is developing in your country - it would look really bad if they did and no country can afford that backlash.

As for the money, if the figure is accurate...about the only thing I can think about to do is to hang my head in shame or maybe this...:hitwall

What are you guys thinking??

They do have to worry about a future conflict with the PRC. They have potential gas fields that are in their EEZ which China claims. However I don't think any orbat, even some of the incredible ones dreamed up here will stop a determined PLAAF with forward airbases. Indonesia has no alliances with anyone making her the weakest country in the region. Rather than buying new fighters she should be forging alliances against the coming storm.

 

[marxist_command]

I guess we don't have to worry about alliances,China or their Almighty PLAAF. Compared to USA & other western, our relation with China was better. (Socialist Blocks Exactly). So I guess instead of USA's homemade Transport,how about Antonov's?

 

[Big-E]

I guess we don't have to worry about alliances,China or their Almighty PLAAF. Compared to USA & other western, our relation with China was better. (Socialist Blocks Exactly). So I guess instead of USA's homemade Transport,how about Antonov's?

Ohhhh Really! Did you forget the anti-Chinese riots of 1998? Singapore, Maylasia and Thialand all have greater trade with China. China only gives energy deals and stops short of most else in regards to Indonesia. Outside of the energy sector Indonesia recieves virtually no foreign investment from China. To top it all off Indonesia’s failure to get the contract to supply China with natural gas from Papua can be cited as an example of the political weakness that puts Australia on better terms with the PRC.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Outside of the energy sector Indonesia recieves virtually no foreign investment from China.

Just to add on to this, Indonesia currently contracts the Northern Territory Govt to assist in building their Power Stations. That contract has been ongoing for the last 10 years.

During the Tsunami crisis Aust donated over $1.25 billion to Indonesia - China donated $60 million to the region (ie Indonesia and Thailand)

 

[Big-E]

Exactly... Australia cares more about Indonesia than China does so don't be too sure of your relations with her.

 

[marxist_command]

Well, we have different opinion here. BTW can we go back to our real topic?about changing C-130's purchase with Antonov?

 

[Big-E]

Well, we have different opinion here. BTW can we go back to our real topic?about changing C-130's purchase with Antonov?

Sure! Which Antonov model did you have in mind?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Well, we have different opinion here.

no, its an issue of fact.

- australia has granted over $1.25billion in aide to Indonesia

- at the moment Indonesia has sought the support of the RAN to restructure the Indon Navy - they have requested that we donate the ex Freemantle Class for use as OPV's

- Indonesia has currently had her Police CT teams fitted out with new equipment and communications gear provided by Australian Federal Police

- Indonesia currently has Australian Consitutional Lawyers assisting in the rewriting of the Indonesian Consitiution and to provide support in structuring issues such as the "Separation of Powers"

- Indonesia currently has Counter Terrorism staff in Australia being trained with various units

- Australia at one stage provided over half of Indonesias airlift capability as a donation/grant.

China has done what? - and lets make it easy by saying what has China done for Indonesia at the measurable level in the past 50 years?

BTW can we go back to our real topic?about changing C-130's purchase with Antonov?

Well considering that Antonov don't meet the EU Stage 3 requirements - so thus won't be able to fly into non military airspace unless they do resolve Stage 3 (and thats something that Ukrainians and Russians both said was expensive and not "urgent") then I guess selecting an Antononv is a problem.

Indonesia, Malaysia and India have all experienced difficulties with Russian/Ukrainian support on various platforms. Of note is that none of the es WarPac countries have purchased antonovs - they've taken them as partial debt, but none have bought any frames new.

The point being, that if you intend travelling in international airspace - then you need to meet the emerging hush and emission laws. Antonov have struggled with that for a loooooong time.

 

[Supe]

- at the moment Indonesia has sought the support of the RAN to restructure the Indon Navy - they have requested that we donate the ex Freemantle Class for use as OPV's

Just on the Fremantle PB's. A job advertisement was placed in the N.T News for a position in assisting in scrapping one of these vessels. I guess it is the end of the road for these boats.

 

[scraw]

Just on the Fremantle PB's. A job advertisement was placed in the N.T News for a position in assisting in scrapping one of these vessels. I guess it is the end of the road for these boats.

IIRC they're shagged, they'd just be a millstone for Indonesia.

I forget the name but is there any suggestion Indonesia gets included in the program we supply nations in the South Pacific with patrol boats?

 

[Supe]

IIRC they're shagged, they'd just be a millstone for Indonesia.

I forget the name but is there any suggestion Indonesia gets included in the program we supply nations in the South Pacific with patrol boats?

I would hope not. Australian govt shouldn't get in the business of subsidising TNI. Indonesia is not so poor that it can't find the money to build a fleet of OPV's. They could scrap the proposed Sukhoi purchase if TNI needs the funds.

 

[Subangite]

Indonesia, Malaysia and India have all experienced difficulties with Russian/Ukrainian support on various platforms. Of note is that none of the es WarPac countries have purchased antonovs - they've taken them as partial debt, but none have bought any frames new.

Really, which platform has Malaysia been experiencing difficulties in Russian support??? MiG29N's?

But in terms of Airlift capabilities, none are sourced from Russia or the former eastern block, Malaysia has always relied on western technology with this aspect of its inventory, relying much on its C130's and also having new Airbus A400M's on order for the RMAF.

I guess the only exception is of the 10 x Mi-171Sh (Mi-8AMTSh), but then these are in Malaysia for the Fire and Rescue Department services and not in a military capacity.

The point being, that if you intend travelling in international airspace - then you need to meet the emerging hush and emission laws. Antonov have struggled with that for a loooooong time.

I doubt the TNI-AU has the need for an international deployment, I'd suspect that they'd be deployed domestically around the vast Indonesian archipelago, so I doubt noise restrictions would be a problem.

 

[marxist_command]

I would hope not. Australian govt shouldn't get in the business of subsidising TNI. Indonesia is not so poor that it can't find the money to build a fleet of OPV's. They could scrap the proposed Sukhoi purchase if TNI needs the funds.

Yes, we have 3 ports capable of making up to 35M lenght Patrol Ship. Hei, It's remind me, How about building our own transport?Y'know like CN-235 or N-50

 

[gf0012-aust]

IIRC they're shagged, they'd just be a millstone for Indonesia.

which is why we said no.

I forget the name but is there any suggestion Indonesia gets included in the program we supply nations in the South Pacific with patrol boats?

The Pacific Patrol Boat programme. - nope, they're in the wrong Ocean. It is set up to deal with the struggling smaller nations of micronesia.

 

[marxist_command]

well, okay...

enough 'bout that

BTW what about the topic now?to use Indon transport like CN-235 or N-250?

 

[alexsa]

MiG-29 SMT would be an ideal choice for TNI-AU. It's multirole and it's cheap. TNI-AU can buy it in large number with no strings attached.

From what I understand the maintenace cost on a lot of the Russian and chinese air craft are quite high with a short time between failure wiht many major components compared to western aircraft.

While they may be cheap there appears to be a very real risk of paying more over the expected life of the airframe (and ahving less availability) simply because of the cost of maintence and upgrades.

 

[Big-E]

From what I understand the maintenace cost on a lot of the Russian and chinese air craft are quite high with a short time between failure wiht many major components compared to western aircraft.

While they may be cheap there appears to be a very real risk of paying more over the expected life of the airframe (and ahving less availability) simply because of the cost of maintence and upgrades.

Very good point, just look at the Russian airforce. Trying to keep these birds running is a nightmare, especially with strict defense budgets.