Indonesian Aero News

[r0m8470]

KF-21 just underwent its first flight.
South Korea’s KF-21 Homegrown Advanced Fighter Just Took To The Air

I am amazed at the progress of KAI with this program. To be fair, we don't know how representative this prototype is vs the intended IOC model, but getting the first flight is quite an achievement I would say.

 

[Ananda]

Already more detail info put in KFX thread, you can see more discussion on KF-21/KFX progress there. Simply to say KAI doing good job on integrating many off the shelf tech on KF-21 to keep on the schedulle.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

According to

Airbus Seeks to Renegotiate Contract with Indonesia for A400M Tactical Airlifts - MilitaryLeak.COM

European multinational aerospace company Airbus is seeking to renegotiate with Indonesia for the two A400Ms that the latter has ordered due to tight supply of

militaryleak.com

Airbus finds it difficult to execute the A400M contract with the price of $685 million. This article is referring to an article from CNBC Indonesia which is written by no one else than the Oracle on Twitter. He can be right, but he can also just telling nonsense.

On Twitter he was talking about installing the Brahmos on the Arrowhead 140 and in his CNBC-article he tells "Sebagai offset tidak langsung dari kontrak pembelian dua A400M oleh Indonesia, Airbus bersedia memberikan autonomous right CN235 dan transfer desain dan otorisasi penjualan NC212i kepada PT Dirgantara Indonesia".

From which i understand both CASA and IPTN own the design and IP of the CN235, and IPTN is also already authorized to sell the NC212i to other countries.

$685 is a lot for just two transporters. I don't know the details and value of the contract of 5 C-130J-30, but Indonesia should only order the A400M if they really need something larger and more capable than the C-130J-30, in my opinion.
Maybe a combination of A330MRTT and C-130 will be enough for Indonesian requirements.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The SIGMA 10514 R.E. Martadinata class and Type 209/1400 Nagapasa Class are from SBY-era.

And yes, i forgot the Iver Huitfeldt/Arrowhead 140 program.
But it is quite silent around the plans to order the FREMMs from Italy.




I don't know if its true or not, but i am not surprised if the Elang Hitam UAV program is cancelled.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1547603714453938176

They have often great plans and projects in this country, but sadly many of these projects, after sensational announcements and sometimes also after a real beginning, progress very slowly and then ending up in nothing.

Btw, in 2019 Indonesia’s Ministry of Defense ordered seven aerial-firefighting aircraft, including one CL-415EAF and six new-production CL-515 airplanes. Until now you hear nothing about this plan, perhaps this is also cancelled.

But according to this article, Indonesia has formed a teaming arrangement with a Turkish defence research organisation to develop a new type of modular air-to-surface missile that can be deployed on unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

The objective of the collaboration is to equip Indonesia's indigenously developed medium-altitude, long-endurance (MALE) UAV with surface strike capabilities.

Indonesia collaborates with Turkey on UAV-mounted air-to-surface missiles

Indonesia has formed a teaming arrangement with a Turkish defence research organisation to develop a new type of modular air-to-surface missile that can be deployed on...

www.janes.com

 

[Arji]

Word from forum is that BRIN wanted Black Eagle project to be used for civilian use only. Obviously, the ministry of defense and military rejected the idea, so they're pursuing their own MALE UAV. This is why the consortium breaks apart. How credible this is though, I have no idea. But Prabowo recently signed an MOU with United Arab Emirates regarding the development of UAV, maybe it's related?

 

[Ananda]

from forum is that BRIN wanted Black Eagle project to be used for civilian use only.

I saw the online session from Keris FB video. I sense this talk is debeatable as those accusation from those 'insiders' base more on their assesment only. Not something that's officials yet. Seems there's some disagreement between MinDef and BRIN, however it is not first time civilian research organisation have disagreement with MinDef/TNI on the scope of research.

Personally for me, just look on how proven UAV contractors like General Atomics developing UAV for example. They are not working directly on armed UCAV version, but developed more ISTAR version first before moving on Armed version.

So I question this talk 'civilian' version, because most of the time for UAV the line between 'civilian' survailence monitoring version is very close to Military ISTAR environment system. Thus if BRIN want to develop step by step with survailences capabilities first, then they are following the progressing steps from most proven UAV contractors.

That's why I take heavy dose 'grain of salt' thinking when hearing something from Indonesian so call 'defense' insiders circles. Too many interest working on those circles.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Photos of an Indonesian airforce pilot visiting and flying in a Qatar Airforce Mirage 2000-5DDA start to pop-up on the internet.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550430728764399616

I do not really support this idea, to get those Mirages. In my opinion its a waste of time and money to train crew for this type and set a whole logostic and support system fort these second hand fighters which were never part of TNI-AU's fleet.

The only reasons i can understand is that TNI-AU wants to quickly fill in the empty gap of the retired F-5E/Fs. The Mirage 2000-5 is after all a large improvement over the F-5s.
And also if Indonesia can keep the Mirages permanently besides the 42 Rafale F4 omnirole fighters as a bonus, it can be a cost effective solution to get an extra fighter squadron.

 

[Ananda]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1552743695304101889

@Sandhi Yudha please don't mock me for putting Twitter guy in here

I put his tweet related to rumours that I heard on Garuda Indonesia airways. As part of Government bail out, one of the follow up option that being pursue is for Garuda to sell some of their assets. One of those assets are their owned airliners, and from the list includes 4 A330-200.

Also Garuda MRO Subsidiaries already sign license with Airbus on freighter conversion job. Seems there's plan for Garuda to convert some of it's A330 as full specs freighter. While conversion toward MRTT basically is A330 freighter conversion job plus.

Selling 4 of Garuda A330-200 to government and turn it into MRTT, actually will be more beneficial toward SOE business, then procuring brand new A400M. At least if we see that from government SOE business perspective.

Tweeter guy is Euro Sales agent, so perhaps the option for converting used A330 in Garuda MRO to MRTT is gaining traction as prefer option.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

TNI-AU's first C-130J-30 fully painted. Its unclear yet if its ready for testflights, but it is scheduled for delivery in 2023.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1555809593036795905

 

[Ananda]

Facebook

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Just add photo direct from LM FB pages. This is quite uncharacteristic of big defense procurement in this administration. Not much drama and exposure, just get the contract deal. Even tough it's actually taking some time in making.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

View attachment 49568

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Just add photo direct from LM FB pages. This is quite uncharacteristic of big defense procurement in this administration. Not much drama and exposure, just get the contract deal. Even tough it's actually taking some time in making.

I also wonder why this acquisition is covered with a blanket of secrecy, while this is only about transport aircrafts. It is also not announced by DSCA, even the value of the contract should be somewhere above $1.000.000.000.

And like we all know, almost every defence procurement will normally be blown up and get a lot of attention from mass media long before any contracts are signed.

 

[Ananda]

also wonder why this acquisition is covered with a blanket of secrecy, while this is only about transport aircrafts.

I don't think it is in secrecy, as it is been talk for some time from second term SBY and first term Jokowi of procurement plan for 5 C-130J. I believe it is already been put even in this thread few years back. Personally I suspect not much talk on media due to combination of this is transport aircraft (thus not sexy enough as topic) and LM team manage to lobby more silently thus not attracting too much attention.

LM as long term player with Indonesian defense procurement practices, seems knows more on which button need to push in reducing too much attention in media. When they need more noise in media (like F-16V), they know also which button to push. Don't discount F-16V yet, they can still come in either new items (considering the price Boeing ask for F-15ID), or refurbished kit package for upgrading F-16C/D.

Some Rumours in Taman Suropati and Lapangan Banteng (Bapenas and MoF), the concept of kit package with Refurbish work done in Indonesia for existing C/D or even with more "base" C/D from USAF inventory is seriously being consider. It is in theory can provide 4 sq of F-16V equivalent with price of less then 2 sq of brand new ones.

Point I put above shown on not underestimating LM play book in Indonesian defense procument. Both LM and Airbus already knows how to navigate defense procurement labyrinth in Indonesian bureaucracies.

Anyway:

Put this just to shown the paint in that C-130J is basically consider as base coat paint. Thus it is provide bade for TNI-AU technicians later on add layers of their prefered paint job. So it seems will not be the final paint job when entering TNI-AU active fleet.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Yes there were rumours for some years about the intention of the airforce to order the C-130J, but only in September 2021 aviation news sites reported officially the acquisition of 5 C-130J-30 aeroplanes. And that was because the visit of the TNI-AU chief of staff confirmed/was the hard proof of it. Specially compared to the 2004-2020 period of overpride announcements, pressconferences and wild statements from officials, it is quite in contrast.

I also don't understand why DSCA didn't announced any approvals.

Indonesia orders five C-130J aircraft from Lockheed

Indonesia has quietly signed a contract with Lockheed Martin for C-130J Super Hercules transport aircraft, multiple sources have told Defense News.

www.defensenews.com

Indonesia, Lockheed Martin Signal C-130J Order | Aviation Week

Confirming unofficial reports, Indonesia has ordered Lockheed Martin’s C-130J Hercules airlifter.

aviationweek.com

Indonesia Confirms C-130J Airlifter Order

The direct commercial sale of C-130Js had previously gone unreported, but has been made public during a visit to Marietta by Indonesia’s air chief.

aircraft.ainonline.com

So there are now some RUMOURS about the plans of upgrading the 23 second hand F-16C/D Block 25 from F-16C/D Block 52ID to F-16V Block 72?

 

[Ananda]

there were rumours for some years about the intention of the airforce to order the C-130J, but only in September 2021 aviation news sites reported officially the acquisition of 5 C-130J-30 aeroplanes.

That's the beauty of Indonesian defense procurement rumours, there's so many and you'll always guessing which one that can move forward from realm of rumours to actual contract. In the end rumours happen because the sales agents doing lobbies and counter lobbies.

 

[ngatimozart]

That's the beauty of Indonesian defense procurement rumours, there's so many and you'll always guessing which one that can move forward from realm of rumours to actual contract. In the end rumours happen because the sales agents doing lobbies and counter lobbies.

There's a method in their madness. Gives people like yourselves hours of endless entertainment

 

[Ananda]

There's a method in their madness. Gives people like yourselves hours of endless entertainment

exactly, Indonesian bureaucracy actually quite masterful asside provide 'labyrinth' of prolonged process, in order to hide which one actually has more chances on getting the contract.

That's why personally I only watch those local defense industry 'insiders' throwing rumours after rumours, and watch Indonesian defense enthusiast running around following each rumours.

In the end those who got chances are the ones that got money trails to back it up. Even money trails can be disguised on several potential track. Not just defense enthusiast getting frustrated to follow, even those sales agents can be buffled. At least some of those sales agents begin to see what's matter are not potential leads from MinDef only, but more importantly which leads that have 'genuine' money trails backup from Finance people.

The entertainment is to find which ones are genuine money trails.

 

[Ananda]

Talking about rumours, on current super Garuda Shield exercise, TNI-AU 737 Maritime Surveillance tandem with US P-8 doing coordination job for Amphibious operation.

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Also US ISR asset in the form of specialised Beech King Air, provide guidance for both Indonesian and US special forces on infiltration before Amphibious Operation commencing.

Facebook

www.facebook.com

TNI-AU already for some time shown interest to replace their 737 Maritime Surveillance that they acquired in the late 80's. Is US bring P-8 to show case what 3 decades tech difference can bring to the capabilities augmentation ?

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

@Ananda
So according to your friend...
|"Nilai kontrak itu (for the 42 Rafales) sebesar € 5,8 miliar, sementara apabila mengacu pada data dari pihak Indonesia, akuisisi Rafale membutuhkan biaya US$ 7 miliar, termasuk dukungan logistik namun belum termasuk persenjataan.

Nilai PLN yang diperlukan untuk dua jenis pesawat tempur buatan Dassault Aviation (the Mirage 2000-5 and 2000-9) tersebut adalah US$ 734,5 juta, termasuk dukungan logistik. PLN sebesar US$ 734,5 juta belum termasuk pembangunan fasilitas dukungan operasional jet tempur Mirage di Indonesia."|

Silang Sengkarut Rencana RI Akuisisi Jet Tempur Rafale Cs

Terkait dengan upaya mewujudkan rencana akuisisi 42 Rafale, isu ketersediaan alokasi anggaran merupakan hal kritis yang perlu diperhatikan.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

So this means that buying the Mirages as an interim solution will cost us an additional $734,5 million on top of the €5,8 billion?
Then using those $734,5 million for the upgrading of the 23 second hand F-16C/D fighters to F-16V level would be better in my opinion.

 

[ngatimozart]

So this means that buying the Mirages as an interim solution will cost as an additional $734,5 million on top of the €5,8 billion?
Then using those $734,5 million for the upgrading of the 23 second hand F-16C/D fighters to F-16V level would be better in my opinion.

Ah but that's far to logical and reeks of common sense. Can't possible have that because the great hairy unwashed (general population) would expect it all the time.

 

[Ananda]

this means that buying the Mirages as an interim solution will cost us an additional $734,5 million on top of the €5,8 billion?
Then using those $734,5 million for the upgrading of the 23 second hand F-16C/D fighters to F-16V level would be better in my opinion.

@Sandhi Yudha all of this just part of rumours, which means the lobbying still going on, and the sales agents still trying to outsmart each other.

This Mirage 2000 come as part of Dasault deals for Interim solution, just like Fincantieri provide Maestrale on interim solution. However interim solution gap, means upgrade and maintenance costs have to be beared, and Mirage 2000 as depreciating Fighters will cost much bigger then F-16 to be maintained. F-16 will still be maintained by LM support for at least another two decades as new build and USAF themselves still keeping them., While Mirage 2000 is not going to be support much by Dasault as French running down the inventory.

Thus rumours circle around that UAE or Qatar will provide cheap financing if Indonesia going to take out those Mirage 2000 as part of the deal. Again all of this just rumours. However it is getting stronger signal from Finance 'guys' that Indonesia can not afford both Dasault and F-15ID at same time (as much been suspected). Too many "infrastructure" projects from Jokowi need to be support within this next two years. This's where LM still coming on lobbying for F-16V whether new build, or Upgrade Package or combo on both.

Personally, again follow the money trails. Thus keep watch which of the offer that provide more 'acceptable' financing term for Finance 'guys' to support.