Indonesian Aero News

[swerve]

There have been reports that the Qatari Mirage 2000s have been bought by a French company called ARES for training, & that Morocco and/or Egypt will buy (or be given) Mirage 2000s from Qatar or the UAE. I have no idea of their accuracy. Greece has also been mentioned as a possible buyer. Of those, Egypt & Greece already operate older Mirage 2000, & Morocco operates updated Mirage F.1.

Qatar ordered 12 Mirage 2000-5 in 1994, delivered from 1997.

The UAE M2000s were bought in two batches, the first in the 1980s (delivered from 1989) as Mirage 2000AD. A second batch of 32 was ordered in 1998 & delivered from 2003 as Mirage 2000-9, plus upgrading of 30 of the first batch to the same standard.

So, there are essentially three lots: 30 (less any losses) 30 year old Mirage 2000-9, 12 25 year old 2000-5AD, & about 30 newer (<20 years old) Mirage 2000-9. Janes reported in 2019 that the UAE & Dassault had signed a contract to upgrade 2000-9s (no number given), so at least some of them should be pretty up to date when they're sold on.

Dubai Airshow 2019: UAE signs off on fighter upgrades, support

 

[Ananda]

Indonesian forums whether local ones or the ones in international platform, practically still only talking rumours in this one. Adding Mirage 2000 just one of the rumours from those so call Insiders, which basically just bunch of Defense Contractors agents.

All of this back to the level of priority some of defense projects relative to other Jokowi's pet projects in infrastructure (especially his crown jewel of new capital nusantara). MoF has to balance the priority of funding between all priorities that have already got Political backing including this Rafale project.

That's why I always say several times in Indonesian threads, I always value much more the rumours from Finance People then those so call defense insiders. MoF and Bapenas can't dictate what MinDef want to procure. However those finance people can prioritize which projects will get funding, and what kind of funding scheme will be taken.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The rumours started with "Mirages sourced from the Middle-East", in fact there is no official statement/announcement about Mirage 2000-5 or 2000-9, so theortically it could be also the Mirage F1. But these are just rumours on the internet, nothing more.

Some interim solutions for Indonesia's old/retired weaponsystems, which are appeared on the internet the last years, are about old equipement, some of them very old and worn out and these items will be a nightmare to operate and maintain.




Now something else.
The last year there are no news or reports about the development of the Elang Hitam UAV, it almost looks like development is on hold.

Until recently i did not know about the existance of this indigenous developed UAV, the Elang Caraka. The UGM Mechanical Engineering research team has developed an autonomous unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) for the early detection of wildfires. The Elang Caraka drone has a flight time of up to six hours and a range of 200 km to conduct surveillance of the designated area. It is smaller than the Elang Hitam, but this looks like a mature and very useful design to me. I don't understand why this project almost getting no attention and (probably because of this) also almost no support and funding.

UGM Develops Fire-Spotting Drone 'Elang Caraka' - Universitas Gadjah Mada

The UGM Mechanical Engineering research team led by Dr. Gesang Nugroho has developed an autonomous unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) for the early detection

ugm.ac.id

Elang Caraka pendeteksi kebakaran hutan - Infografik ANTARA News

Elang Caraka, pesawat tanpa awak untuk mendeteksi dini kebakaran hutan akan mulai diujicobakan di Riau dan Lampung pada ...

m.antaranews.com

It even has a retractable undercarriage.

 

[Ananda]

don't understand why this project almost getting no attention and (probably because of this) also almost no support and funding.

Right now seems all research project that want to get Government funding must pass BRIN filter. As BRIN now replacing function of BPPT and LIPI as ultimate government body that supervise all RnD activities from all Universities and Research center. After that if this's deemed suitable for defense or dual functions, then has to be decide by Defend ID as SOE Defense Industry holding.

Gelar Rakor Perdana, DEFEND ID Siap Realisasikan 8 Program Strategis

<p>Kontrak <em>on-hand</em> Defend ID sudah mencapai Rp 48,7 triliun</p>

amp.kontan.co.id

This is shown how Defend ID work, basically they coordinate all projects on SOE defence industry. As example from IDR 48 T (around USD 3.5 bio) of priority projects, around a third of that (IDR 15 T or USD 1.1 bio), shown cross functionality between each companies projects. Thus Defend ID will put joint program for efficiency.

In paper this if done properly will provide more focus priorities and efficiency on resources. However this also means many RnD projects from various institutions will only stop as prototype of even design of concept if they don't meet the cut. It's always plus and minus if your efficiency drive already incorporated on corporate functions.

But these are just rumours on the internet, nothing more.

Yes it is, and being circulated by those defense 'insiders'. Seems as basically they are contractors agents, it is shown fight of slice of pies between them are already intensified. After all behind those contractors there are Political factions in parliement that support them. That's how Indonesian bureaucracy and political factions interact, mostly through middle guys/contractors, in which represent certain foreign partners as agents.

When rumous running wild usualy related to some decisions will come soon. Fog of information then coming out to counter each other 'insiders' move.

 

[swerve]

The rumours started with "Mirages sourced from the Middle-East", in fact there is no official statement/announcement about Mirage 2000-5 or 2000-9, so theortically it could be also the Mirage F1. But these are just rumours on the internet, nothing more....

Does anyone there still have any Mirage F.1s? The last I heard, the Jordanians had sold the the last of theirs to Draken International, perhaps for parts.

Morocco (which is all west of the prime meridian, its most easterly point being 10k west of where I'm sitting - I can't think of it as Middle Eastern) has F.1s still operating, but Moroccan F.1s are 40 years old or more & well used. The modernisation they had in the 2000s was quite deep, & I think they're comparable in systems with a Mirage 2000-5, but the airframes are probably shagged.

 

[Ananda]

RI Tolak Hibah Pesawat Tempur Mirage

JAKARTA - Diberi gratis, tapi menolak. Itulah sikap Departemen Pertahanan Indonesia saat ditawari satu skuadron (14 unit) pesawat tempur Mirage F-1

m.jpnn.com

In 2009 Qatar already offer 14 Mirage F-1 to Indonesian AF free of charge. Indonesia only has to cover maintenance and transport back to Indonesia from Qatar AB.

This is under SBY first term, and his Defense Minister that time Juwono Soedarsono refuse the offer based on logistical problem that TNI-AU has to cover. I already talk in Indonesian thread before long time ago, among Defense Minister after Soeharto era, Juwono actually the most defense minister that maintain 'independent' sanity check on procurement process. Perhaps that's why he's only being used on one term. No contractor agents can get through him.

Anyway if in 2009 MinDef already refuse Mirage F-1, why they want to accept another batch right now ? Besides the rumours is for another 14 Mirage 2000, seems 14 is the number current rumours also use to circulate.

Anyway let's see if this rumours circulate by those defense 'insiders'/agent has some base.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

As fa

Does anyone there still have any Mirage F.1s? The last I heard, the Jordanians had sold the the last of theirs to Draken International, perhaps for parts.

Morocco (which is all west of the prime meridian, its most easterly point being 10k west of where I'm sitting - I can't think of it as Middle Eastern) has F.1s still operating, but Moroccan F.1s are 40 years old or more & well used. The modernisation they had in the 2000s was quite deep, & I think they're comparable in systems with a Mirage 2000-5, but the airframes are probably shagged.

As far as i know Libya and Iran do still have small amounts of Mirage F1s.
The F1s now still flying around are ofcourse totally worn out and obsolete, but the 2000s are still capable. And at least superior to the F-5E/F which the Rafale has to replace.
But still i think it is a waste of time, money and resources to get the Mirage 2000 for Indonesia. After years of training and adaptations, TNI-AU get used to fly and maintain the 2000s, but then they have to do everything from the beginning with the Rafale. It is comparable with those plans of buying the second hand F122 Bremen class or Maestrale class frigate.

It would be more practical, faster and cheaper to borrow the oldest Rafales from the France Airforce.

 

[Ananda]

Kembangkan Pesawat Perintis dan Drone, PTDI Gandeng Perusahaan Asal Abu Dhabi

PTDI memperluas cakupan bisnisnya di Uni Emirat Arab (UEA). BUMN produsen pesawat dan helikopter itu sepakati kerja sama dengan Calidus LLC.

finance.detik.com

So it is being disclose, whose the Investor that going to back DI on developing N-219 and MALE UAV.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The roll-out of Indonesia's first C-130J-30! Sadly this picture is taken with a cheap mobile phone camera.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542504238726541314

TS-1606 is the 6th F-16A Block 15OCU which is undergoing Falcon Star e-MLU.

TS-1606 Menjadi Pesawat F-16 Keenam Hasil e-MLU

30 Juni 2022 Dalam program Falcon Star e-MLU, pesawat F-16 yang telah berganti warna adalah pesawat yang telah selesai menjalani Functional ...

defense-studies.blogspot.com

Test flight of TS-1606.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544882026083274752

Both the Minister of Defence and the President are in the UAE. There seems to be an agreement for cooperation in joint marketing of the CN235 and N219.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542446832454107136

 

[Ananda]

From Indonesian Avionics company:



Seems this's the mock up of TNI-AU C-130H cockpit upgrade program. There'll be 10 TNI-AU existing C-130H being upgraded, and seems Infoglobal will handle their cockpit upgrade toward glass cockpit ones.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0ckmGM3Eq3Z8SEGXLr1M6f5TT6GeB3SDYjpvsZca3Hp3bKzceEAaTFqyR7G9yV9cnl&id=101662914934829&sfnsn=wiwspmo

More from their FB pages. This company seems getting more contract toward upgrading existing fleet or involve with DI on new project like N-219.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia, France agree to strengthen defense cooperation

Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi and her French counterpart, Catherine Colonna, agreed to boost partnership between both nations, especially in the ...

en.antaranews.com

This is two days article from Antara News Agency. Basically in Saturday during Indonesian-French foreign minister meeting, they reiterate the defense agreement already sign before. In sense no changes on the agreement:

1. 6+36 Rafale agreement with Tech Transfer to DI from Dasault.
2. NG and PAL agreement on licensing Submarine.
3. Nexter and Pindad agreement on licensing large calibre ammo production.
4. Thales and LEN agreement for C4ISR especialy on CGI.

So far only the #3and #4 that already shown technical contract, while #1 and #2 has not yet there. However this meeting shown official commitment still same. This related with local defense insiders/ agents rumours on reducing the # of Rafale and adding second hand Mirage 2000 from UAE instead.

So those rumours on reducing # of Rafale plus getting Mirage 2000 still rumours from those defense agents. So far no official commitments back it up.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Getting the Mirage 2000 as an interim solution would only be practical and cost effective if TNI-AU already had the Mirage III, Mirage V or first generation 2000. The remarkable thing is that we don't hear anything about the A330MRTT or A400M.


With exception of the German MCMVs and American C-130J-30, until now we see only large defence contracts with France, and mostly for the airforce and navy.

I wonder if the government plan something for the army requirement for heavy helicopters, TNI-AD was interested in the CH-47F or MV-22.

 

[Ananda]

until now we see only large defence contracts with France, and mostly for the airforce and navy.

So far we can only digest some signs on how MinDef negotiation direction. Like this one:

Kementerian Pertahanan Republik Indonesia

Menteri Pertahanan RI Prabowo Subianto @prabowo menerima kunjungan Kepala Staf Angkatan Udara dan Antariksa Prancis Général d'Armée Aérienne Stéphane Mille di Kemhan, Jakarta, Senin (11/7), di mana...

www.facebook.com

With increase communication with Frenchie either with Foreign Minister, Defense Minister also Frenchie delegation in Bapenas, shown so far Frenchie direction got more traction. However this's just subtle signals yet, as with Indonesia, others interest and lobby still can take subtle movement. That's why the defense insiders/agents now on increasing tempo on public profiling.

 

[swerve]

With exception of the German MCMVs and American C-130J-30, until now we see only large defence contracts with France, and mostly for the airforce and navy.

Martadinata-class light frigates are Dutch. Nagapasa-class submarines are S. Korean. Arrowhead 140/Iver Huitfeldt/Type 31 frigates are Danish/British. FREMM frigates are French/Italian, but Indonesia is buying them from Italy, with both Fincantieri & Leonardo participating.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Martadinata-class light frigates are Dutch. Nagapasa-class submarines are S. Korean. Arrowhead 140/Iver Huitfeldt/Type 31 frigates are Danish/British. FREMM frigates are French/Italian, but Indonesia is buying them from Italy, with both Fincantieri & Leonardo participating.

The SIGMA 10514 R.E. Martadinata class and Type 209/1400 Nagapasa Class are from SBY-era.

And yes, i forgot the Iver Huitfeldt/Arrowhead 140 program.
But it is quite silent around the plans to order the FREMMs from Italy.




I don't know if its true or not, but i am not surprised if the Elang Hitam UAV program is cancelled.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547603714453938176

They have often great plans and projects in this country, but sadly many of these projects, after sensational announcements and sometimes also after a real beginning, progress very slowly and then ending up in nothing.

Btw, in 2019 Indonesia’s Ministry of Defense ordered seven aerial-firefighting aircraft, including one CL-415EAF and six new-production CL-515 airplanes. Until now you hear nothing about this plan, perhaps this is also cancelled.

 

[Ananda]

One of TNI-AU T-50i LIFT crash during what TNI-AU call Night Operation training exercise. This is the 3rd or 4th T-50i TNI-AU crash (just base on my recollection). However in my opinion quite predictable considering those LIFT being use relative intense.

Cerita Warga Usai Pesawat T-50i Golden Eagle Milik TNI AU Jatuh di Hutan Pertapan Blora

Pesawat T-50i milik TNI AU jatuh di Kradenan, Blora, Jateng. Warga sekitar mengaku sempat mendengar suara ledakan satu kali dari lokasi kejadian.

regional.kompas.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

One of TNI-AU T-50i LIFT crash during what TNI-AU call Night Operation training exercise. This is the 3rd or 4th T-50i TNI-AU crash (just base on my recollection). However in my opinion quite predictable considering those LIFT being use relative intense.

Cerita Warga Usai Pesawat T-50i Golden Eagle Milik TNI AU Jatuh di Hutan Pertapan Blora

Pesawat T-50i milik TNI AU jatuh di Kradenan, Blora, Jateng. Warga sekitar mengaku sempat mendengar suara ledakan satu kali dari lokasi kejadian.

regional.kompas.com

Yes, this is the fourth T-50i lost. Really sad news, the pilot is passed away and we also lost a modern jettrainer/light fighter (TT-5009).

Pilot pesawat T-50i Golden Eagle yang jatuh di Blora dipastikan gugur

Lettu Pnb Allan Safitra Indra Wahyudi, pilot pesawat TNI Angkatan Udara T-50i Golden Eagle gugur dalam kecelakaan pesawat tempur yang jatuh di Desa ...

m.antaranews.com

I understand that these advanced jettrainers are often used, but TNI-AU can decrease accidents and wear on these aircrafts by not using these T-50s for high risk activities like aerobatic stunt team shows.

Six more T-50s are on order, right?

 

[Ananda]

TNI-AU can decrease accidents and wear on these aircrafts by not using these T-50s for high risk activities like aerobatic stunt team shows.

I just wondering, as info circulating so far that T-50i in the inventory consists of T-50 standard base (basically only LIFT) and TA-50 base (in which can have secondary LCA capabilities). That TA-50 from what I gather only one notch bellow FA-50 base that are LCA but already close to MRCA capabilities.

What I was wondering, if the one that meet this accident still in T-50 standard, or already in TA-50 standard. If the later one, perhaps more appropriate for night training operation.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I just wondering, as info circulating so far that T-50i in the inventory consists of T-50 standard base (basically only LIFT) and TA-50 base (in which can have secondary LCA capabilities). That TA-50 from what I gather only one notch bellow FA-50 base that are LCA but already close to MRCA capabilities.

What I was wondering, if the one that meet this accident still in T-50 standard, or already in TA-50 standard. If the later one, perhaps more appropriate for night training operation.

Yes, ive read somewhere (wasn't it here at DT?) that a part of the T-50i fleet lack a three barrel 20 mm cannon and the other part was equipped with one. But wasn't the plan to upgrade the whole fleet to TA-50 level?

May this brave soldier rest in peace.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549215435496648705

 

[ngatimozart]

Yes, this is the fourth T-50i lost. Really sad news, the pilot is passed away and we also lost a modern jettrainer/light fighter (TT-5009).

It's always sad when aircrew lose their lives in accidents. May he RIP.

I understand that these advanced jettrainers are often used, but TNI-AU can decrease accidents and wear on these aircrafts by not using these T-50s for high risk activities like aerobatic stunt team shows.

The cause of the crash may not b known yet and its to early to definitively state it. FYI aerobatic performances aren't high risk stunts as yo put but displays of highly skilled pilots flying well practised coordinated manoeuvres that are well within the structural limitations of the aircraft. These displays do have a military function in that they exhibit both the air forces / air arms aircraft and their experienced pilots in a public arena, are used as a recruiting tool, and are used as a PR tool. Within an air force / air arm they also encourage healthy competition amongst pilots to increase their flying skills and improve the quality of their airmanship so that they may gain selection for one of the display teams.