Indonesian Aero News

[Ahmad]

From which i understand IPTN want to focus on the N245 after the N219 project is finished. Thats why there is almost no progress in the N245 project, and i think its the best decision.

Im quite surprised that the indigenous UAV project is in such a advanced state. I saw the UAV pictures on facebook, and i thought it was a fanboy statement that this is an IPTN made design, and actually the chinese CH-4B.

Normally prestigious Indonesian defence programs are much more exposed (to a ridiculous high level) to give fanboys a lot of time to let their fantasies going out of control.

This program actually has been exposed since 2016 and many mainstream publication have written about the program. The news about the program that has reached detail design process was written in the middle of 2018. From this news alone it is clear that government has injected money for prototyping phase and it show the level of seriousness this program has in the mind of government.

Something which is not clear yet is the development cost of the program, unlike N 219 program where we see PT DI official keep giving some information update including on development cost, this program doesnt give us any clue about it. The program seem to have full backing from government since the start that make them have no reason to disclose the program cost to get people support. I still remember times where N 219 being developed, there is financing problem that I sense was happening, it is why N 219 program took about 10 years from 2006 into 2016 to get their first prototype. That small passenger plane should not have taken too much time in the development process since it is not a jet fighter program any way.

As I said earlier that MALE UAV program is started in 2015 but they start preliminary design in January 2016 according to what I read on online media. This project IMO show the nature and vision of PT DI/IPTN management team to make PT DI become an aerospace company that will serve both military and civilian purpose. With both jet fighter and MALE UAV program being pursuit, it shows the level of seriousness of both management team and PT DI main stake holder (government) to enter military planes market and develop capabilities in this sector.

On the other hand, Habibie prefer PT DI to focus on civilian aircraft since the demand is much bigger. I remember he opposes KFX/IFX program and I believe under his consideration it is better for PT DI to have collaboration with PT RAI to make 80 seat passenger aircraft to compete ATR series. Despite so I believe KFX/IFX program can be quite successful since China look like dont want to sell their J 20 to another countries. New development also reveals that KFX program will be speed up into block 2 sooner than expected since ADD Korea will start Block 2 program in 2021 according to latest Jane Defense news.

If this drone want to be successful in the market, it should have attack capability to be able to compete with Anka and CH 4. In the final block (Block C-(Combat)) it will have armament being installed according to very latest interview with DI engineer but before entering Block C variant, the drone only have ISR mission system (intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance). I also wonder whether PT LEN Industry is able to develop such system, but I do think that they have gained some experience when they develop mission system for UAV Wulung. I think PT LEN needs some collaboration with foreign company to develop it.

More Picture from the instagram post. The engine have already been installed. I wonder who supply the engine. Landing gear will be different for the next block according to DI engineer, later block will have landing gear that can be inserted into the body.

PT Dirgantara Indonesia on Instagram: “Bandung (12/12), Menteri Riset & Teknologi RI, Bapak Bambang Brodjonegoro melakukan kunjungan ke PTDI, diterima oleh seluruh Direksi PTDI.…”

 

[Ananda]

By the way, the likelihood that Indonesia will exit the KFX/IFX partnership is high now. Prabowo is like Ryamizard Ryacudu after all, and RR is the one who "forgot" to allocate money to pay for Indonesia's share in the project. The excuse is that there is no money, but the idea that Indonesia the country can't scrape enough money to pay for the 20% share of the R&D of KFX is ridiculous.

Ini Kecanggihan Jet Tempur Semi Siluman yang Disebut Prabowo Kemahalan

In short if they can find a way to break the contract, I do believe some 'factions' in this administration will do it.
Not that they want to stop defense cooperation with ROK..it's just the matter if they really want to support this particular program.

That Detik Finance article on Prabowo's statement that Jokowi think the Indonesian participation cost in KFX is too high.. increasingly shown this administration try to find way out on the project.
Just as Tonnyc predicted and my own prediction, there's simply no strong support within this administration on the project, has shown more and more even with new MinDef. They talk on more work share load, while in same time trying to reduce cost sharing from 20% is something that ROK will definitely not going to accept. Thus clearly it's a possition that being put in Media to try finding a way out.

KFX development budget is 'only' USD 10 bio at most, and for modern fighter program that development cost is already 'cheap'. Look at what Japan put on F2 replacement development budget, USD 50 bio or 5 times then KFX Budget.
Saying that Indonesia can't afford 20% or USD 2.0 bio, while preparing procurement of other expensive items, how in earth ROK will believe Indonesia did not have money for the share cost burden ?

There're some scenarios that I predicted can come out:

1. Worst case scenario for this administration. ROK did not want Indonesia out from KFX, but to give Indonesia face (as giving face is important in Asian culture), ROK will agree for Indonesia share to reduce to 10%-15%, but DI work share load only as limited Final Assembly facility (just like Italy and Japan got in F-35) thus all KFX parts will come from KAI, and Indonesia still committed/bound to purchase 2-3 squadron of KFX.

2. Middle case scenario for this administration. ROK/KAI agree for reduction, but in same time offer other join program with DI. Perhaps on FA-50 (as MinDef shown their interest for more COIN/Light Fighter). This way DI got more work share load but in same time KAI also got other business as replacement.

3. Best case scenario for this administration. ROK agree for Indonesia to get out from KFX program and they will absorb all Indonesia cost sharing part. However Indonesia then will give ROK another projects perhaps in 3rd batch of Submarine (since 2nd batch already goes to DSME) or in other naval surface vessels to give ROK administration face saving. Thus in the eyes of this administration they are open to pursue other Fighter procurement projects.

This administration talk in public they are pursuing KFX/IFX project to give DI and local industry medium on Fighter Development. However than talk the cost sharing is too much.. come on..off course they 'should' know that USD 2.0 billion is a 'bargain' to get involved in any modern fighter projects.

So, sometimes I laughed when 'snooping' local forum and see some Local Forumers vehemently support this administration stance that USD 2.0 bio is too expensive on getting involved on a Fighter Development as 'Junior Partner'. Some even have delusional idea that DI has more experience than KAI, thus KAI has to pay DI. They simply could not accept DI has no experience what so ever on Fighter program, or Fighter program is 180 degrees difference with commercial turboprop project that DI has experience so far.

I put this, as showing the Indonesian administration has begin preparing the public for withdrawal from KFX project (if they can), as to off set any political back lash if later on they decided to just procured other Fighter Jets with only minimal tech transfer (mostly in maintenance).

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Ini Kecanggihan Jet Tempur Semi Siluman yang Disebut Prabowo Kemahalan



That Detik Finance article on Prabowo's statement that Jokowi think the Indonesian participation cost in KFX is too high.. increasingly shown this administration try to find way out on the project.
Just as Tonnyc predicted and my own prediction, there's simply no strong support within this administration on the project, has shown more and more even with new MinDef. They talk on more work share load, while in same time trying to reduce cost sharing from 20% is something that ROK will definitely not going to accept. Thus clearly it's a possition that being put in Media to try finding a way out.

KFX development budget is 'only' USD 10 bio at most, and for modern fighter program that development cost is already 'cheap'. Look at what Japan put on F2 replacement development budget, USD 50 bio or 5 times then KFX Budget.
Saying that Indonesia can't afford 20% or USD 2.0 bio, while preparing procurement of other expensive items, how in earth ROK will believe Indonesia did not have money for the share cost burden ?

There're some scenarios that I predicted can come out:

1. Worst case scenario for this administration. ROK did not want Indonesia out from KFX, but to give Indonesia face (as giving face is important in Asian culture), ROK will agree for Indonesia share to reduce to 10%-15%, but DI work share load only as limited Final Assembly facility (just like Italy and Japan got in F-35) thus all KFX parts will come from KAI, and Indonesia still committed/bound to purchase 2-3 squadron of KFX.

2. Middle case scenario for this administration. ROK/KAI agree for reduction, but in same time offer other join program with DI. Perhaps on FA-50 (as MinDef shown their interest for more COIN/Light Fighter). This way DI got more work share load but in same time KAI also got other business as replacement.

3. Best case scenario for this administration. ROK agree for Indonesia to get out from KFX program and they will absorb all Indonesia cost sharing part. However Indonesia then will give ROK another projects perhaps in 3rd batch of Submarine (since 2nd batch already goes to DSME) or in other naval surface vessels to give ROK administration face saving. Thus in the eyes of this administration they are open to pursue other Fighter procurement projects.

This administration talk in public they are pursuing KFX/IFX project to give DI and local industry medium on Fighter Development. However than talk the cost sharing is too much.. come on..off course they 'should' know that USD 2.0 billion is a 'bargain' to get involved in any modern fighter projects.

So, sometimes I laughed when 'snooping' local forum and see some Local Forumers vehemently support this administration stance that USD 2.0 bio is too expensive on getting involved on a Fighter Development as 'Junior Partner'. Some even have delusional idea that DI has more experience than KAI, thus KAI has to pay DI. They simply could not accept DI has no experience what so ever on Fighter program, or Fighter program is 180 degrees difference with commercial turboprop project that DI has experience so far.

I put this, as showing the Indonesian administration has begin preparing the public for withdrawal from KFX project (if they can), as to off set any political back lash if later on they decided to just procured other Fighter Jets with only minimal tech transfer (mostly in maintenance).

So we can put the essence of this story in one sentence: its a hopeless administration.
If they really dont like this project and do not want to grab the opportunity to get so much ToT, expertise, knowledge and experience for IPTN and become less dependent from foreign jetfighter manufacturers, then they should immediatly stop the involvement in this KFX-program. Then they should use the $2M for the licence production of the FA-50 including parts manufacturing besides final assembly.

 

[Ahmad]

Ini Kecanggihan Jet Tempur Semi Siluman yang Disebut Prabowo Kemahalan



That Detik Finance article on Prabowo's statement that Jokowi think the Indonesian participation cost in KFX is too high.. increasingly shown this administration try to find way out on the project.
Just as Tonnyc predicted and my own prediction, there's simply no strong support within this administration on the project, has shown more and more even with new MinDef. They talk on more work share load, while in same time trying to reduce cost sharing from 20% is something that ROK will definitely not going to accept. Thus clearly it's a possition that being put in Media to try finding a way out.

.

You should have read that article written by Detik journalist more carefully and if you did that you will find that Prabowo never said thing like that at all. It is only a false interpretation or there is intention to mislead Prabowo statement for what ever the reason is. Some journalist are hard core Jokowi loyalist and we can see they sometime bring mislead reporting for the sake of enforcing Jokowi administration narrative on KFX/IFX program. Merdeka is the worst since it is PDI-P loyalist newspaper.

The truth is Prabowo only said that he think many of our previous defense contract are too expensive (kemahalan), not mentioning KFX program at all. You can get better reporting from respected publication like Antara, Kompas, or Tempo. Here I give the link from Kompas article when Prabowo speak that statement. Menteri Prabowo: Kontrak Alutsista dengan Luar Negeri Bermasalah – Bebas Akses .One of the contract that is viewed as too expensive IMO is Su 35 contract.

Prabowo IMO is supportive on KFX/IFX program and I can see it since his vision of future Indonesia is a great Indonesia. Previous stand of him on defense matter saying that he wants to have defense budget close to 2 percent of GDP, or more than double from 2020 budget, is a prof of that. This stand suggest that he is ready to sacrifice some economic development for the sake of nation greatness and power. He is not a pragmatic guy like Jokowi who think more like Soeharto who stresses more on economic matter. Prabowo works as a defense minister also show he is very supportive on Indonesian defense industry as he promotes Indonesian defense industries products when ever he go abroad or when ever foreign officials meet him at his office. Even he went to Philippine just to help promote our medium tank and anoa APC, something that can be done by his deputy instead of himself. I dont see this anthusiasm coming from Ryamizard Ryakudu.

The one that oppose KFX/IFX program IMO are generals who have close relation with foreign defense companies and economic team who view defense spending as liability. This generals IMO try to influence Jokowi that the fighter project is not really worth it. We know that Jokowi close advisors are retired generals. Jokowi IMO buy some of their narrative but not all, thats why he still want to continue the program. Lembong is an economic team that oppose KFX program and wanting to reduce KFX/IFX acquisition from 48 into just 16. Even he publish his opinion in BKPM website, something that weird since BKPM (Investment board) should just focus on investment related matter. Thanks God that he is now sack so less minister now opposing the program. As economic team he should have known that 2 billion USD is tiny compared the amound of US denominated bond that government issue ever year to finance state budget deficit.

The other minister that I think is opposing KFX program is Sri Mulyani,our finance minister, something that is quite understandable since she is a woman, dont think too much as men in term of defense related stuff and technology advancement.

Recent news actually reveal that Prabowo try to persuade Sri Mulyani on budget matter. Anadolu news reporting on recent South Korea defense minister visit to discuss KFX program also quotes defense minister spoke person who said that his ministry is also working to get more budget for the program. It means instead of having firm stand to reduce the investment cost, current defense ministry also work to get financing support for the program from the state budget. In other means, it suggest that Prabowo doesn't buy previous Jokowi administration narrative that government doesnt have money to finance the program.

With the coming of Prabowo into the cabinet I think it is positive to counter economic lead mind set that looks to be quite strong in previous cabinet and some retired general advisor that maybe has personal vested interest. Prabowo also said recently that defense related spending should not be seen as liability but rather an investment. And with new development reveals that Prabowo who actually will lead Indonesia renegotiation team instead of security minister suggests that Jokowi somehow start to believe on the voice who is pro KFX program and see defense spending as investment instead of liability. He can pick Mahfud MD who look like as his hard core loyalist as a leader of renegotiation team and stood on his stand firmly, but he pick Prabowo instead. With this position, Prabowo has more chance to convince Jokowi and also has more opportunity to interact with Indonesian KFX/IFX program team so supportive narrative can get stronger stand in cabinet meeting. Something that I see positive for KFX program.

And dont forget the fact that Jokowi administration finance our MALE UAV project. It means that he also support the effort to improve our defense industry capability. I understand that 2 billion USD research budget in KFX program is a high jump compared on how we used to spend on defense related research. Many people are not used to it and it is something new for us. Jokowi previous stand on KFX program is a weakness of him and I hope he change it. Previous stand is also made when we suffer from 8 billion trade deficit and this year Alhamdulillah we can narrow that deficit into just 1.5 billion USD. So I hope this changed financial environment can lead into more supportive stand for the program from our new cabinet and Jokowi himself.

 

[Ananda]

So we can put the essence of this story in one sentence: its a hopeless administration.
If they really dont like this project and do not want to grab the opportunity to get so much ToT, expertise, knowledge and experience for IPTN and become less dependent from foreign jetfighter manufacturers, then they should immediatly stop the involvement in this KFX-program. Then they should use the $2M for the licence production of the FA-50 including parts manufacturing besides final assembly.

From what developed so far, I do believe there's enough people around Jokowi's inner circle that did not like this project from beginning. First of all, It's SBY's legacy project, other thing is I do believe based on some bit's of info come out in media or on line leaking, those people in Administration also think they can got other ToT Fighter project with already proven Fighter, rather than ' gambling' on new unproven project as only 'Junior' Partner.

I do believe enough influential member of this administration that see using that money on getting license or DI work share for fighters project like Gripen (as Brazil did), or Typhoon, or even F-16V project is more beneficial than involvement in KFX. Perhaps that's what LM offering?

So the way I see it, it's not really matter of hopeless, but matter of political will on getting involved in new unproven fighter projects or getting license/ToT on older but proven Fighter project.
FA-50 is one potential bargain chip perhaps that I predicted can come out, if they (Indonesia and ROK administration) can't get reach agreement on this renegotiation.

 

[Ananda]

You should have read that article written by Detik journalist more carefully and if you did that you will find that Prabowo never said thing like that at all. It is only a false interpretation or there is intention to mislead Prabowo statement for what ever the reason is

@Ahmad it can be some Journalist miss interpretation, but they are (the administration) in renegotiation mode for KFX projects and that's the fact
Again why they want renegotiation ? Well they already told in media time to time that they feel the amount we have to invest in R&D is to high.

You come out with assumption that Prabowo's is already behind this KFX. Well I'm not so sure. One thing that Prabowo's and Jokowi's agree on their last Presidential debate that both want stronger and technology update defense posture. That's doesn't mean both agree with KFX.

Nobody even ROK believe that Indonesia does not have money for KFX R&D share portion. However Korean media put some prediction also that Indonesia have second thought on continuing commitment on the project. This may come out from not all Tech on KFX can be shared by KAI to DI, or on potentially work share agreement. Off course ROK admistrations will diplomatically saying that Indonesia still committed on KFX project, just need some renegotiation on payment schedule.

That's why I predicted three scenario can come out. I put the best scenario (from this administration perspective) is they can walk away from KFX project while still maintain good defense ties with ROK on other projects. While the worst is they have to stuck with KFX. Remember this project means Indonesia will also have to buy 50 KFX, and that's mean at least USD 7 billion plus at least in today's money for R&D cost share plus 50 KFX. That's why I see why some on this administration wants to get out.

Prabowo's coming to this administration, I'm hoping that he will improve MinDef Implementations track record, which is very poor on this administration first term. Again this is not mean Prabowo's is already behind KFX definitely and most importantly Jokowi's also already 100% backing it.
It's simple @Ahmad if this administration already 100% backing continuation of KFX, and why they need renegotiation ?

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

This program actually has been exposed since 2016 and many mainstream publication have written about the program. The news about the program that has reached detail design process was written in the middle of 2018. From this news alone it is clear that government has injected money for prototyping phase and it show the level of seriousness this program has in the mind of government.

Something which is not clear yet is the development cost of the program, unlike N 219 program where we see PT DI official keep giving some information update including on development cost, this program doesnt give us any clue about it. The program seem to have full backing from government since the start that make them have no reason to disclose the program cost to get people support. I still remember times where N 219 being developed, there is financing problem that I sense was happening, it is why N 219 program took about 10 years from 2006 into 2016 to get their first prototype. That small passenger plane should not have taken too much time in the development process since it is not a jet fighter program any way.

As I said earlier that MALE UAV program is started in 2015 but they start preliminary design in January 2016 according to what I read on online media. This project IMO show the nature and vision of PT DI/IPTN management team to make PT DI become an aerospace company that will serve both military and civilian purpose. With both jet fighter and MALE UAV program being pursuit, it shows the level of seriousness of both management team and PT DI main stake holder (government) to enter military planes market and develop capabilities in this sector.

On the other hand, Habibie prefer PT DI to focus on civilian aircraft since the demand is much bigger. I remember he opposes KFX/IFX program and I believe under his consideration it is better for PT DI to have collaboration with PT RAI to make 80 seat passenger aircraft to compete ATR series. Despite so I believe KFX/IFX program can be quite successful since China look like dont want to sell their J 20 to another countries. New development also reveals that KFX program will be speed up into block 2 sooner than expected since ADD Korea will start Block 2 program in 2021 according to latest Jane Defense news.

If this drone want to be successful in the market, it should have attack capability to be able to compete with Anka and CH 4. In the final block (Block C-(Combat)) it will have armament being installed according to very latest interview with DI engineer but before entering Block C variant, the drone only have ISR mission system (intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance). I also wonder whether PT LEN Industry is able to develop such system, but I do think that they have gained some experience when they develop mission system for UAV Wulung. I think PT LEN needs some collaboration with foreign company to develop it.

More Picture from the instagram post. The engine have already been installed. I wonder who supply the engine. Landing gear will be different for the next block according to DI engineer, later block will have landing gear that can be inserted into the body.

PT Dirgantara Indonesia on Instagram: “Bandung (12/12), Menteri Riset & Teknologi RI, Bapak Bambang Brodjonegoro melakukan kunjungan ke PTDI, diterima oleh seluruh Direksi PTDI.…”

The remarkable thing is of this UAV project is that unlike all other defence projects, not much data is released, only the planned max altitude and max endurence for a flight.
We do not know the dimensions, range, speed, weight, which engine it uses...not even the (code)name.

The prototype looks quite finished, but they plan the first flight for end next year, at the earliest.

 

[Ahmad]

The remarkable thing is of this UAV project is that unlike all other defence projects, not much data is released, only the planned max altitude and max endurence for a flight.
We do not know the dimensions, range, speed, weight, which engine it uses...not even the (code)name.

The prototype looks quite finished, but they plan the first flight for end next year, at the earliest.

The code name is Puna MALE UAV according to BPPT (Government Research Agency). BPPT has issue press release after the picture got viral. According to BPPT, UAV project is done by a MALE consortium consisted of BPPT, PTDI, PT LEN Industry, Indonesian Air Force, Defense Ministry, LAPAN (Space Agency), and Bandung Institute of Technology.

Based on BPPT official FB press release, it said that the funding coming from BPPT, LAPAN, and defence ministry with the most funding coming from BPPT. So in essence, it is a project of research and technology ministry. BPPT contributed 80% of UAV design and engineering. PTDI contribution is in some work design and production of the drone. The program will continue until 2024. After I read BPPT FB page further, PT LEN Industry is also not only responsible in making UAV mission system but also its flight control. So the project looks like not only mean to make MALE UAV, but also developed necessary system on the drone inside the country instead of importing it from foreign companies.

It is quite logic that BPPT that become the leader on the consortium since BPPT has made many UAV. Compared to PTDI that only have experience on UAV in production of Wulung drone. LAPAN is also included maybe because this agency also make several UAV before and quite active in UAV development.

You can find the range of this drone from BPPT website, and the endurance according to BPPT website is 30 hours, not 24 hours as previously reported. So I think UAV development in the future will also lead by BPPT and it will be likely done in consortium so that more systems can be made inside the country by including more institution and defense companies in the program.

Talking about the engine, it looks like will use similar engine who power Anka drone. The drone dimension is close to Anka according to some graphic information found on the net. Seems true since I read on online publication who interview DI officials that the drone can use similar system used in Anka, CH 4 drone and French drone.

Here is the link: @ngatimozart @OPSSG

BPPT Luruskan Pemberitaan Soal Drone MALE Nasional PTDI

 

[ngatimozart]

@Ahmad You are required to proved links to your sources. This is to protect both you and the forum against accusations of plagiarism. I think that this is the second time that I have had to remind you of this and us Moderators get real cranky if we have to continually repeat ourselves.

 

[OPSSG]

Ahmad, thanks for sharing your point of view and updating the forum on UAV developments. It is really appreciated.

It is quite logic that BPPT that become the leader on the consortium since BPPT has made many UAV. Compared to PTDI that only have experience on UAV in production of Wulung drone. LAPAN is also included maybe because this agency also make several UAV before and quite active in UAV development..

On links, you could share a link from BPPT or LAPAN here.

You can find the range of this drone from BPPT website, and the endurance according to BPPT website is 30 hours, not 24 hours as previously reported. So I think UAV development in the future will also lead by BPPT and it will be likely done in consortium so that more systems can be made inside the country by including more institution and defense companies in the program.

If they had a product description, on physical dimensions, a link here would help educate us.

Talking about the engine, it looks like will use similar engine who power Anka drone. The drone dimension is close to Anka according to some graphic information found on the net. Seems true since I read on online publication who interview DI officials that the drone can use similar system used in Anka, CH 4 drone and French drone.

In many posts in the US or Australian threads, members do share links as a social norm. In this way, everyone can learn more. If you read my posts in other threads, I also share links and not all of them are in English. See sample below where I shared a Swedish link on their defence cooperation work with Singapore:

On 27 August 2019, RSS Fearless, RSS Brave and RSS Dauntless were decommissioned at Tuas Naval Base in a ceremony. The retirement of the three 500 ton patrol vessels is part of a process that will see RSN switch to 8 littoral mission vessels (LMVs), all of which are in the water as of January 2019. Singapore started the LMV program in 2013 with the aim of replacing 11 Fearless-class vessels. Featuring a steel hull and a carbon fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP) superstructure to reduce topside weight, the 1,200 ton LMVs are expected to be fully operational by 2020. Each CFRP module was built by Saab Kockums and inspected by FMV in Sweden prior to delivery in Singapore (see: FMV - "Det är en ny roll för oss").

This leaves only 1 last Fearless class vessel (RSS Gallant) in service; and this vessel will remain in service for an undeclared transitional role. For details see: Singapore decommissions three Fearless-class patrol vessels

Although the LMV platform has been designed to embark a medium-lift helicopter on the flight deck, only lead ship Independence (15) and the last three ships in the class, Fortitude (20), Dauntless (21), and Fearless (22), will operate them. The remaining 4 LMVs can only operate rotor-wing UAVs. Further, RSS Independence is modified with hull-strengthening strakes, to contribute to this LMV's robustness during incidents at sea which may involve ramming. More weapons and sensors are in the pipeline for installation on the LMVs, to increase the versatility of these vessels. These include, a 12-cell VL MICA system for each ship to be acquired and delivered at a later date.

Note on MICA NG: In July 2018, France announced the MICA New Generation programme, with two versions (IR or RF seeker), to be delivered between 2026 to 2031. This will allow France to replace current MICA missiles, which will be gradually phased out by 2030. The French Government considers the export capability of the new missiles, not only in the air-to-air but also in the ground-to-air version. The MICA NG is the first programme that will be launched within the 2019-25 military program law. More specifically, the MICA NG‘s IR seeker will use a matrix sensor and the RF seeker will use a AESA sensor. The reduced volume of electronics will allow it to carry more propellant, and allow for a new double-pulse rocket motor in the same form factor. In November 2018, MBDA signed a contract for the MICA NG missile for France with delivery starting in 2026. The contract also provides for royalties, as well as a mechanism for reducing the price of missiles acquired by France according to the number of missiles produced for export.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Thanks for sharing, impressive developments.
But it seems that PUNA is not a model name for a certain UAV, from which i understand it just means Pesawat Udara Nir Awak...

So there are many different kinds of PUNAs : Inilah Drone & Pesawat Terbang Tanpa Awak (UAV) Buatan Indonesia

There are no really reliable/professional websites with information and data about the latest LAPAN-IPTN-BPPT-LEN UAV from the recent foto's.

Not even wikipedia articles, Only some blogspots
Alutsista di Indonesia: UAV Canggih Buatan PT DI “PUNA Wulung”

 

[Ahmad]

Thanks for sharing, impressive developments.
But it seems that PUNA is not a model name for a certain UAV, from which i understand it just means Pesawat Udara Nir Awak...

So there are many different kinds of PUNAs : Inilah Drone & Pesawat Terbang Tanpa Awak (UAV) Buatan Indonesia

There are no really reliable/professional websites with information and data about the latest LAPAN-IPTN-BPPT-LEN UAV from the recent foto's.

Not even wikipedia articles, Only some blogspots
Alutsista di Indonesia: UAV Canggih Buatan PT DI “PUNA Wulung”

It turn out that BPPT has helped Turkish to develop ANKA MALE UAV since 2008. The relationship has been going on for more than 10 years and the latest test is in 2018 for their new UAV prototype. At least 5 test has been conducted in this institution for Turkey TAI. BPPT is the institution that has also tested other PT DI aircraft development. This institution get latest wind tunnel when BJ Habibie become our President.

TAI perkuat kerja sama pengujian UAV dengan BPPT

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

It turn out that BPPT has helped Turkish to develop ANKA MALE UAV since 2008. The relationship has been going on for more than 10 years and the latest test is in 2018. At least 5 test has been conducted in this institution for Turkey TAI. BPPT is the institution that has also tested other PT DI aircraft development.

TAI perkuat kerja sama pengujian UAV dengan BPPT

Thanks for sharing!
Im really surprised to read this, because i thought there were only plans to start cooperation between TAI and IPTN on UAVs in the near future, not that this cooperation already existed, let alone already more than 10 years!

 

[Ahmad]

Thanks for sharing!
Im really surprised to read this, because i thought there were only plans to start cooperation between TAI and IPTN on UAVs in the near future, not that this cooperation already existed, let alone already more than 10 years!

Your welcome bro,

According to BPPT engineer, they also get valuable experience and information from those tests. One particular test takes about 6 months according to him. Information and experience taken from that collaboration I think will be implemented in our own MALE UAV program. I think missile and engine will be provided from Turkish sources by seeing our close relation with them in several defense program.

On the other hand, BPPT aerospace division release photo of R 80 passenger aircraft being tested in its wind tunnel test. It seems this project is getting serious now and government involvement is seen in this test. I wonder whether in the future PT RAI will have collaboration with PT DI or PT RAI will go without PTDI. If the collaboration do exist in the future it means PTDI is not going to make N 275 aircraft though N 245 program can still be continued since it is in different class.



BBTA3-BPPT on Instagram: “Halo Sobat Aero, saat ini di wind tunnel BBTA3, @tirbr_bppt, @bppt_ri sedang dilaksanakan pengujian Propeller model pesawat R80.…”

 

[Ahmad]

Latest development on KFX/IFX program is that both defense minister are confident that the cooperation between two countries, Korea and Indonesia, will still be continued. It is shown by latest press release from SK defense minister office after his defense minister met with Prabowo in Jakarta to discuss KFX/IF program.

Latest Korea automobile investment pledge that will use Indonesia as their manufacturing based IMO will also likely to effect Jokowi decision on KFX/IFX program in positive way. Good relationship that has already happen so far should not be spoiled with possible Indonesia walk out on the program, something that can possibly hamper Korean future investment in Indonesia and Indonesian Korean future defense industry cooperation.

Korea IMO also see Indonesia as potential countries with its KFX development in term of possible acquisition it will make, not only for block 1 but also possible block 2 and 3. It means total KFX acquisition that is possibly made by Indonesia can be in hundreds. Particularly by seeing Indonesia economic capacity projection after 2030 from international institution, the moment where block 2 and block 3 are plan to come. Indonesia aerospace IMO is also viewed by Korean as reliable partner in term of developing KFX technologies together with them.

Making part and set up assembling facility for FA 50 or other 4 generation fighters IMO is not something valuable anymore since we have already made wing part of F 16 in 1990s and huge experience with aircraft integration, part production, and assembling since 1976. PTDI is also able to make retrofit and upgrade of Indonesian F 16 A/B that is currently still going on, together with Air Force maintenance depot under supervision of LM. We have to pursuit STEALTH technology instead to progress.

The renegotiation outcome can also possibly result in maintaining similar cost sharing composition with better TOT or export license, something that is not impossible since Pakistan can get export license from Mushak trainer from SAAB even though they dont have any stake on its aircraft development.

Continuing the program also mean that we are going to develop block 2 and 3 with South Korea which means more experience with Stealth technology. According to Jane defense latest news, KFX Block 2 program will be started in 2021.


This is SK defense minister statement after meeting with Prabowo to discuss KFX/IFX program:

"As cooperation in defense industry fields, including the KF-X project, is a symbol of the two countries' strong relationship of trust, the two ministers agreed to make joint efforts to enhance their defense ties in a mutually beneficial way," Seoul's defense ministry said in a release after a meeting between Defense Minister Jeong Kyeong-doo and his Indonesian counterpart, Prabowo Subianto, in Jakarta.

S. Korea, Indonesia vow to move forward fighter jet project | Yonhap News Agency

 

[Ananda]

Anggaran Pertahanan Terus Naik, tapi Modernisasi Alutsista Tersendat – Bebas Akses

There's this article in Kompas today, talking rather in similar tone that I've posted in here. Indonesian MinDef under this administration (especially the first term) is doing 'poor' on Implementations and program plan, despite increasing budget.

This something that many Indonesian forums and Media especially the ones that supports this administration blindly did not want to accept. Despite increasing budget, the defense modernisation progress basically only run crawling due to poor planning and Implementations of MinDef program.

Jokowi's seems acknowledge that in this second term, and ask Prabowo's to sort it out. Let's see how the progress..after their dismal performance on last term, I'm still bit sceptical on MinDef.

As cooperation in defense industry fields, including the KF-X project, is a symbol of the two countries' strong relationship of trust, the two ministers agreed to make joint efforts to enhance their defense ties in a mutually beneficial way," Seoul's defense ministry said in a release after a meeting between Defense Minister Jeong Kyeong-doo and his Indonesian counterpart, Prabowo Subianto, in Jakarta.

That's a diplomatic talks @Ahmad there are no guarantees that KFX cooperation with Indonesia will end up as current agreement or not. They are talking on 'mutually beneficial way'.. that's diplomatically statement saying 'we are still talking and in negotiations'..

Indonesia will continue to have cooperation in Economics and Defense with ROK. But it's not the same on saying KFX cooperation will definitely be the same . Come on, they are already in negotiations mode, and the result of negotiations is not come out yet cause is not yet finish. This article that you put strengthen that.

The devil is and always in details, let's wait until the details come out, when the negotiations already conclude.

 

[Ahmad]

Anggaran Pertahanan Terus Naik, tapi Modernisasi Alutsista Tersendat – Bebas Akses

There's this article in Kompas today, talking rather in similar tone that I've posted in here. Indonesian MinDef under this administration (especially the first term) is doing 'poor' on Implementations and program plan, despite increasing budget.

This something that many Indonesian forums and Media especially the ones that supports this administration blindly did not want to accept. Despite increasing budget, the defense modernisation progress basically only run crawling due to poor planning and Implementations of MinDef program.

Jokowi's seems acknowledge that in this second term, and ask Prabowo's to sort it out. Let's see how the progress..after their dismal performance on last term, I'm still bit sceptical on MinDef.



.

Safrie Samsoedin has been appointed as Defense Minister advisor in this Prabowo period. Since he is IMO the brain of SBY defense ministery which is perceived more successful than RR period, so I think your concern has been tackled quite well by Prabowo. Safrie Samsoedin IMO is also a supporter of KFX/IFX program during SBY administration since that administration that started the program after SK proposal in 2009. Under SBY administration, defense ministery has also put fighter jet, missile and propellant development and submarine building program as priority.

 

[Ananda]

Safrie Samsoedin IMO is also a supporter of KFX/IFX program during SBY administration since that administration that started the program after SK proposal in 2009. Under SBY administration, defense ministery has also put fighter jet, missile and propellant development and submarine building program as priority.

Well hope your optimism pay out @Ahmad as for me I'm still wait and see.
There are still people's in Jokowi's circle that does not like KFX project from beginning.
Look, this administration already put some money in DI to build facilities for Jet Fighter assembly. So there are 'suport' from this administration for DI effort in getting Jet Fighter involvement. However that does not mean KFX will be the jet fighter this facilities build for.

Remember SAAB and Airbus already come out with proposal for Gripen and Eurofighter assembly and license with DI if we procured enough Jets from them.
Don't know LM proposal for DI or local industry involvement, however put this 'potential' scenario. Say in this scenario, LM says; " look I know you are looking for 2 sq of F-16V, and I know you're bound on KFX project for at least 3 sq. Why don't you just ditch KFX, switch that 3 sq KFX to F-16V, thus with 5 sq we can give DI license to build F-16V just like we offer India".

I'm not saying that scenario is the one being put by LM, but it's plausible that kind of scenario be put by LM, thus provide 'excuse' for people in the administration that are not behind KFX project. After all (in their perception) we are only Junior Partner in KFX thus we only doing assembly and some parts manufacturing, not much difference then if we go with LM or SAAB or Airbus/Eurojet for licensing and assembly their Jets.

Point is, there's still enough people in Jokowi's circle that see other way around to give DI experience and exposure for manufacturing Jets in their facility.
So again like I said in this forum from time to time, "until the asset already come or in the process to be manufactured, anything still can be change in this administration".

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

"So again like I said in this forum from time to time, "until the asset already come or in the process to be manufactured, anything still can be change in this administration""
100% agree.
"Eerst zien, dan geloven." (I believe it, at the moment i see it.)

Besides that, licence-production is only carried out by a huge amount of orders: India 200 Su-30MKI, and Turkey 240 F-16s for example. For only 32-64 jetfighters its just final assembly of knocked down kits.

 

[Ananda]

Besides that, licence-production is only carried out by a huge amount of orders: India 200 Su-30MKI, and Turkey 240 F-16s for example. For only 32-64 jetfighters its just final assembly of knocked down kits

Actually even Hindustan Aerospace and Turkey Aerospace license production also not mean they got license to make all parts. From what I read in India and Turkish media and forums more than half of Su-30 (for Hindustan) and F-16 (for TAI) parts still sources from Sukhoi and LM as original manufacturer.
So when 'lurking/snooping' on their forums, sometimes I laughed when some Indian or Turkish fan boys boasted they can build Su-30 MKI or F-16 block 50 on their own without Sukhoi or LM permission to. They compared it to Chinese J-15. Well that's what many fanboys don't understand, J-15 is Chinese own build fighter based on unlicensed copy from Su-27/30. While license build means you are still bound to original manufacturer for some parts and tech.

Even if Indonesia still going with KFX projects and made their version IFX in DI, it does not mean DI can build IFX independent from KAI.
Brazil final assembly agreement of their Gripen NG with SAAB is what I believe the kind of production arrangements DI can hope for, even with KFX.