Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

Singapore Airshow 2018: Indonesia appoints national carrier subsidiary to study air force’s aerial tanker requirement | Jane's 360

If this's right, then seems the AF begin to improve their procurement process. Using MRO company on doing assessing job especially local ones, ussually not been what the 'older' ego generation of AF brass doing in past.

Hope this are sign the 'sanity' camp getting upper hands..

 

[STURM]

Ananda,

Sorry to veer off topic. Was there ever any confirmation that TNI-AU Hawks were used in Acheh and East Timor?

 

[Ananda]

I only remember international media in late 90's and early 2000's talk about British protesting on Hawk being used in Aceh against rebel insurgence.

I believe Hawk's is being used..since the only fighter squadron that located in Sumatra at time, is Hawk 209/109 sq in Pekanbaru.
Besides, it's period where after East Timor fiasco, Indonesia still facing Western embargo..and also the economy still highly affected by Asian Economy crisis 98. Thus Hawk with relatively new airframe plus more economics to maintain, is also one of the most operational readiness.

However most Air Cover in Aceh operation done by OV-10. Afterall as COIN aircraft, it's most suitable to handle rebel insurgencies.

Officially East Timor, Aceh, Papua insurgencies being handle by OV-10. However there are some media report International and Local that witnessed Hawk operation. That's where the British protest coming from.

This is the sample on official position:
Indonesia uses UK Hawks in Aceh offensive
Officially, the Indonesian Military will not confirm or denied usage of Hawk in insurgence operation. However considering Hawk sq is located in Sumatra, and limited number of OV-10 available (there are already some attrition from previous operation in East Timor). In my opinion it's inevitable some flight of Hawk being done in Aceh.

Still based on publications on those insurgencies operations..The work Horse is OV-10. This is the plane that as soon as came from US, already put in operation tempo in East Timor replacing P-51 and B-25/26.

OV-10 is the most popular fighter for Indonesian Troops in the ground. They see it just like GI's see A-10 in Gulf..a life safer..

 

[STURM]

Thanks for the feedback.

Back in the 1990's some people broke into the British Aerospace plant at Warton and damaged some Hawks.

BRITAIN-INDONESIA: Women Who Wrecked Jet In Timor Protest Walk Free | Inter Press Service

Yes, given the threat level encountered in Aceh and East Timor it would have made more sense to employ the Broncos rather than the more expensive to operate Hawks.

 

[r0m8470]

Singapore Airshow 2018: Indonesia appoints national carrier subsidiary to study air force’s aerial tanker requirement | Jane's 360

If this's right, then seems the AF begin to improve their procurement process. Using MRO company on doing assessing job especially local ones, ussually not been what the 'older' ego generation of AF brass doing in past.

Hope this are sign the 'sanity' camp getting upper hands..

The thought of exchanging Su-27 for Su-30 does make sense IMO. Considering the size of the territory, I thought it makes perfect sense for a heavy/light combinations. Now that the AF has a few years operating Flankers and Vipers together, it is logical IMO to build off with both types, then use TA/FA-50 as the LIFT. I don't know what they gain by investing in Su-35 now, if they can spend the $ for possibly more Su-30, or more advanced F-16. If range is a consideration, the F-16 does have CFTs. When the K-FX appears, then it can be transitioned towards replacing the oldest F-16 and the oldest Sukhois.

I am also curious if the AF ever get to develop meaningful operational doctrine using F-16 and the Sukhois? We've seen them on numerous occasions, but we've never seen a Red Flag type exercise, where they really use the full spectrum of Sukhois and F-16 capabilities. I know that only a few country can afford Red Flag type undertakings, but you know what I mean. So far, we've seen the Sukhois flying off with AA-12, and flying home w/o. Was that a succesful live fire, was that a bust? F-16 firing off Mavericks on straight approach, and both aircraft functioning as bomb trucks. The Sukhois flew and test fired a PGM but I think it missed and I have not heard about any live fire with Kh-31. Live fire exercise is expensive, but better to spend money honing the skills vs having hardware sitting idle in the depot, and not developing capabilities.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Thanks for the feedback.

Back in the 1990's some people broke into the British Aerospace plant at Warton and damaged some Hawks.

BRITAIN-INDONESIA: Women Who Wrecked Jet In Timor Protest Walk Free | Inter Press Service

Yes, given the threat level encountered in Aceh and East Timor it would have made more sense to employ the Broncos rather than the more expensive to operate Hawks.

Unbelievable that those vandals simple could walk away with it unpunished.

Anyway, how satisfied is the TNI-AU about the EMB-314? Any idea if our air force like the EMB-314 more than the OV-10F?

 

[Ananda]

If you asking on how TNI community feeling comparison between Super Tucano and Bronco..and I believe for sometime in future, no contest they will like Bronco all the way. It's emotional feeling, Bronco is for many TNI soldiers in conflicts area on East Timor, Papua and Aceh are their life line support.

Kisah OV-10 Bronco TNI AU, Si Kampret Legendaris di Medan Tempur

This's just an example of many articles in media, forum or books writen on How Bronco have special meaning for many ground troops and pilots in conflicts area. Especially East Timor,Bronco proved their value for many ground soldiers that have limited air support before Bronco (due to limitations on aging B-26 and P-51 that being used as Air Support before).

Super Tucano is new kid..and unless Indonesia facing more COIN situations like East Timor, Aceh or Papua..I don't thing Super Tucano will bring that kind of emotion in future. Also TNI now have more COIN asset than that time (which rellied mostly on Bronco)..

 

[STURM]

Super Tucanos have also been deployed in East Kalimantan, near the Malaysian border.

 

[Ananda]

I still with my opinion through out this thread..that TNI-AU needs for COIN is not necesary since other assets like TNI-AD AH-64 and MI-35 can be used more effectively than Super Tucano on COIN operations..

USAF now seems shown more interest in COIN or now called 'light attack aircraft'..which seems promted them to looking for more International 'partners' granted to make their experiment more economical.
Top US Air Force general hopes to increase Asia’s interest in light-attack aircraft

Pity Boeing as present Rockwell owner did not want to pursue new development of OV-10. In my opinion still the best platform for COIN operation.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

A330-300 is frm what I heard is being discussed as potential based for Indonesian MRTT deal, since the first batch of Garuda A330 is from 300 series..If not mistaken Garuda A330 procured in 3 batches, first 300 series, then 200, and latest another batch of 300.

Again this is some calculation they are toying about, considering Airbus offered upgrade from ex Garuda A330 (to reduce) procurement cost thus made their offer more attractive. If any deal on tankers come out..it will be on 2019-24 window. For me, just curious how Boeing will try to compete Airbus deal, not only in potential Indonesian deal, but also other potential tanker market they will faced with Airbus as competitor. KC 767 won't be as attractive as MRTT, but facing MRTT with KC 46 means mostly fighting only with new airframe, while Airbus can offered both new build or upgrade airframes,

Initially i thought the A400M was suitable as a transporter and aerial tanker for TNI-AU, although its much more expansive than the C-130J, looking to its capabilities its superior in almost everything compared to the C-130H/J. But reading the A400M thread, and reading all the articles from the links posted there, it maybe can become a very expensive and disappointing acquisition. The engines have reliability problems, aerial refueling seems to be a risky operation with the A400M and the A400M project in overall goes as smooth as the F-35 project.
So maybe buying the A330 MRTT plus some additional C-130H-30s would be more suitable for our air force.

 

[Ananda]

Double Post

 

[Ananda]

Double post

 

[Ananda]

Pemerintah Sudah Tandatangani Kontrak Pembelian Sukhoi Rusia

According to this, Indonesian Mindef yesterday already sign contract for 11 Su-35. Despite all the 'saga' and controversy on Su-35 procurement process, hope this will be new chapter on more efficient on defence procurement items by Mindef.

Who knows, the US Defence Secretary visit recently might prompted the Russian on giving final negotiation to seal the deal.

Add:
Kontrak Pengadaan Diteken, Sukhoi Su-35 Tiba di Indonesia Oktober

Thus procurement for present Minister, can be said as 'personal' triumph for him. He's already put his credibility on line several times for this deal.

English version from Jane's
Indonesia finalises contract to procure Su-35 fighter aircraft | Jane's 360

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

At last, at last,....akhirnya.....after all those years of hesitation, negotiations, empty promises and useless announcements, we have sign the contract for 11 Su-35s to replace the F-5E/F.

The plan is to deliver the first one in October,that's very quickly. I don't understand the obsession every time to directly show off the newest weapon systems on 5 October Hari ABRI.....it looks like if its the only reason we buy new defence equipment.

 

[Ananda]

Because our ministers and Generals are not above playing politics. This year is regional election year, and next year is presidential/national election year.

They need to shown that they fullfill the political promises of building national defense. And show casing new shining toys is part of that. They need to shown this administrations own contracted result. Since most of armed forces procurement whether frm local suplier or overseas supplier are contracted by previous Admin.

As for those 2 Su-35 in October, if what being said is true (and we still have to give benefit of doubt on any statements come frm current Mindef). Unless Russian diverted some of their own Su-35 being assembled, I don't see that happening.

Or they do what US done, basically lend 2 of their own AH-64 couple years ago for Armed Forces day.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I

Because our ministers and Generals are not above playing politics. This year is regional election year, and next year is presidential/national election year.

They need to shown that they fullfill the political promises of building national defense. And show casing new shining toys is part of that. They need to shown this administrations own contracted result. Since most of armed forces procurement whether frm local suplier or overseas supplier are contracted by previous Admin.

As for those 2 Su-35 in October, if what being said is true (and we still have to give benefit of doubt on any statements come frm current Mindef). Unless Russian diverted some of their own Su-35 being assembled, I don't see that happening.

Or they do what US done, basically lend 2 of their own AH-64 couple years ago for Armed Forces day.

I think youre right, Russian liveries are often fast, but first livery in october is quite extreme. So or the first two Sukhois are intended for the Russian AF or we just borrow two Russian AF Su-35s with pentagonal stickers on the red stars...
What we also can do is disguise our Su-27SKs as Su-35s....the public and most of the local press cant see the difference after all .

Anyway i saw this morning on the running text of TV One that the Su-35 livery will be finished in 2020.

 

[Ananda]

The thing that most important pertaining the SU-35 deal is the 50% trade deal and 30 % off set deal. The trade being handle by trade ministry. However the off set deal is more important for continuation of Flankers operation in TNI-AU fleet.

That off set basically Sukhoi deal to build MRO facility in Indonesia. This more important cause this can reflect on going economics for Flanker operations. This is more crucial for any future deal for flankers.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia acquires four Wing Loong I UAVs from China | Jane's 360

This already in some talk on local forum and mefia. The talk on Indonesian AF to developed MALE UAV capabilities and experience. The goal seems build locally by DI/IAe, which now seems getting with Turkish JV. However during the development stages, TNI-AU will try on Chinese made UAV in order to build capabilities and familiarity on MALE UAB operation.

With Wing Loong also getting market in Middle East, Chinese UAV begin to become serious contender on Global UAV market.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Indonesia acquires four Wing Loong I UAVs from China | Jane's 360

This already in some talk on local forum and mefia. The talk on Indonesian AF to developed MALE UAV capabilities and experience. The goal seems build locally by DI/IAe, which now seems getting with Turkish JV. However during the development stages, TNI-AU will try on Chinese made UAV in order to build capabilities and familiarity on MALE UAB operation.

With Wing Loong also getting market in Middle East, Chinese UAV begin to become serious contender on Global UAV market.

Thanks for sharing. As expected the new Wing Loong I (the Pterodactyl I version?) will be added to those 'Philippine UAVs' from SkU51 at Supadio. According to the Jane's article, SkU51 is using the Aerostar, but i thought it is the IAI Searcher I or Searcher II.
From the outside the Wing Loong looks very similar to the Predator series, also the size is almost the same, which is a coincidence of course....

But looking to several sources, the specifications are quite good....

BTW, the order is for four units, that means only four UAVs without spareparts, ordnance, training and ground control station?

 

[Ananda]

No detail on the deal. However if the previous 'Philipines' UAV deal as patern. Then like those previous four Philipines UAV, this four Chinese ones should also included supporting infrastructures.